I am so embarrased
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lol I've been here over 15 years, built a heck of a lot of bridges around town. There used to be a lot of great things in Memphis, but it has degraded greatly in the last decade. I actually crossed the state line and live out in the bushes in MS. I work wherever the work is( currently in an outlying town) and do most of my shopping in the burbs. I try to stay out of Memphis proper as much as possible since I don't currently have a concealed permit....... I have considered a move completely out of the area but being still so new in my new career, Don't have a lot of job prospects that make it worthwhile as of yet. In a couple of years, moving could be an option maybe. Was considering a move out while I was still in construction, but the economy dumped right about the time I Was getting serious about it. So back to school and the new career instead.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
I have seen you around the Lounge so I am somewhat familiar with your transition to coding, but I must say, you are quite the role model for a lot of Americans right now. Moving from labor / construction / physical work to intellectual work is something that can pull us out of this mess, but the inertia to do so is hard for many people. I've been in the field professionally for 8 years, and have never come across some that has done it. If you're willing to relocate, then you will have a much better time finding work, too. Heck, some people get gigs through this site, or so I hear... :suss:
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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I have seen you around the Lounge so I am somewhat familiar with your transition to coding, but I must say, you are quite the role model for a lot of Americans right now. Moving from labor / construction / physical work to intellectual work is something that can pull us out of this mess, but the inertia to do so is hard for many people. I've been in the field professionally for 8 years, and have never come across some that has done it. If you're willing to relocate, then you will have a much better time finding work, too. Heck, some people get gigs through this site, or so I hear... :suss:
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
well to be honest I wasn't just a total shovel swinger, I was a crane operator, which takes a high level of skill and a few brains. As far as relocating, yeah its a possibility, but until I finish my Bach degree, I don't see a lot of hope for the pay being high enough to make a move worthwhile. I landed a lucky shot to be honest where I just started(at just under 50k, for an associates degree and one year exp, I can live with it) and while its so far over my head I can't see straight,(last guy to work on this project was self taught, he didn't teach himself about comments or naming conventions) Two years ago I didn't know what c# or asp was. I'll get it figured out.. lol I got the job however due to it being a small small world. I was a student worker at my school in the tech department. My boss there as it turned out, worked with my new current boss 10 years ago. When I did this interview I mentioned the boss at the school in passing and this guy called that one's cellphone... Gave me a ripping good review and I received the call the next morning making the offer. So until I get better I'll stick it out here and finish my bach degree I think.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
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well to be honest I wasn't just a total shovel swinger, I was a crane operator, which takes a high level of skill and a few brains. As far as relocating, yeah its a possibility, but until I finish my Bach degree, I don't see a lot of hope for the pay being high enough to make a move worthwhile. I landed a lucky shot to be honest where I just started(at just under 50k, for an associates degree and one year exp, I can live with it) and while its so far over my head I can't see straight,(last guy to work on this project was self taught, he didn't teach himself about comments or naming conventions) Two years ago I didn't know what c# or asp was. I'll get it figured out.. lol I got the job however due to it being a small small world. I was a student worker at my school in the tech department. My boss there as it turned out, worked with my new current boss 10 years ago. When I did this interview I mentioned the boss at the school in passing and this guy called that one's cellphone... Gave me a ripping good review and I received the call the next morning making the offer. So until I get better I'll stick it out here and finish my bach degree I think.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
gavindon wrote:
well to be honest I wasn't just a total shovel swinger, I was a crane operator, which takes a high level of skill and a few brains.
Sorry if I sold you short there, didn't mean to throw you all together. I just meant that the industries of physically building things in this country will never be what it was.
gavindon wrote:
I landed a lucky shot to be honest where I just started(at just under 50k, for an associates degree and one year exp, I can live with it)
That's a great offer in my opinion, seriously that's where I started out after college (Bachelors) 5 years ago, just stick with it and kick ass, soon enough you'll be making double that!
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Well thank you for quoting me completely out of context there, as the selective memory statement was referring to the election.
Majerus wrote:
lack critical inquery into the leadup to the war in Iraq, uncritical acceptance of the WMD lie, lack of interest in Bush illegal wiretapping, a complete refusal to acknowledge the torture that went on - to the extent that the word torture would never be used.
The press did address these things when they were known, but keep in mind Assange wasn't up and running full steam at the time, and much of it was top secret. To criticize the press for lack of action at the time, when knowledge of such things only came to exist more recently is unfair. I think a lot of what you are mentioning here may be directed at many of the Democrats at the time for doing nothing about it, not probing deeper. However, since all of these things continue under Obama, I think they provide a benefit to the leaders of the government's ability to monitor and control, regardless of which party is steering the ship. Things like torture, Gitmo, any type of wiretapping will always exist; no President will give up those abilities.
Majerus wrote:
I honestly haven't given it a lot of thought. There is not likely to be a serious attempt to contest the sitting president's nomination.
Obviously not, I was just trying to gauge your location on the wide political spectrum.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
wizardzz wrote:
The press did address these things when they were known
No, it really didn't. It took the word of the administration and delved no deeper. There was no attempt to verify the admins claims of WMD, there was no outrage at the illegal wiretaps. The MSM refused to use the word torture to decribe the torture that occurred.
wizardzz wrote:
To criticize the press for lack of action at the time, when knowledge of such things only came to exist more recently is unfair.
Oh, I don't think it is. The press simply took the admins word for it. And when things did come out on their own, again - at best the issue was ignored, at worst it was actively defended. All 3 of the things I mentioned were know during Bush's administration.
wizardzz wrote:
I think a lot of what you are mentioning here may be directed at many of the Democrats at the time for doing nothing about it, not probing deeper.
Since we are talking about the press I don't really understand your point. After all the Republicans were there as well. Why didn't they do anything?
wizardzz wrote:
However, since all of these things continue under Obama,
Yes, they have. Even the torture - just look at the case of Bradley Manning. But again, we are talking about the press. As for my political leanings - I'm a progressive. I believe in a strong social safety net, I believe in a progressive tax code, I believe in strong labor unions, strong environmental and business regulations - just to name a few policies.
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gavindon wrote:
well to be honest I wasn't just a total shovel swinger, I was a crane operator, which takes a high level of skill and a few brains.
Sorry if I sold you short there, didn't mean to throw you all together. I just meant that the industries of physically building things in this country will never be what it was.
gavindon wrote:
I landed a lucky shot to be honest where I just started(at just under 50k, for an associates degree and one year exp, I can live with it)
That's a great offer in my opinion, seriously that's where I started out after college (Bachelors) 5 years ago, just stick with it and kick ass, soon enough you'll be making double that!
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
wizardzz wrote:
Sorry if I sold you short there, didn't mean to throw you all together. I just meant that the industries of physically building things in this country will never be what it was.
no apologies needed I wasn't offended. I actually agree with you, 99% of the people I worked with would not have been able to do it. Not even based on intelligence, but just on years of habits or some such malarkey. I actually worked with a supervisor at one company that had a Bachelors degree in Hydraulic engineering. And a pilots license, small plane and chopper. But he was and still is working for 600 bucks a week out in the muck and mud. Not because of the recession either, hes been doing this for a few years now even before the recession hit. Another one(ironically for the same company) had a veterinarians degree. Working for that same salary. Never understood that myself. ] To me that kind of work is what you do when you don't know how to do anything else. Granted I did it for years but crane operators are paid a lot better than supervisors.. and once I got the push to go, as soon as I had enough degree to get out I was GONE.. :laugh:
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
-
wizardzz wrote:
The press did address these things when they were known
No, it really didn't. It took the word of the administration and delved no deeper. There was no attempt to verify the admins claims of WMD, there was no outrage at the illegal wiretaps. The MSM refused to use the word torture to decribe the torture that occurred.
wizardzz wrote:
To criticize the press for lack of action at the time, when knowledge of such things only came to exist more recently is unfair.
Oh, I don't think it is. The press simply took the admins word for it. And when things did come out on their own, again - at best the issue was ignored, at worst it was actively defended. All 3 of the things I mentioned were know during Bush's administration.
wizardzz wrote:
I think a lot of what you are mentioning here may be directed at many of the Democrats at the time for doing nothing about it, not probing deeper.
Since we are talking about the press I don't really understand your point. After all the Republicans were there as well. Why didn't they do anything?
wizardzz wrote:
However, since all of these things continue under Obama,
Yes, they have. Even the torture - just look at the case of Bradley Manning. But again, we are talking about the press. As for my political leanings - I'm a progressive. I believe in a strong social safety net, I believe in a progressive tax code, I believe in strong labor unions, strong environmental and business regulations - just to name a few policies.
I'm not going to quote-requote like crazy, it gets unreadable. I can find articles from mainstream media regarding all 3 topics during Bush's administration, the 3 topics were pretty well known at the time, so I feel like you have a selective memory of the press during the time your political enemy was in office...
Majerus wrote:
Since we are talking about the press I don't really understand your point. After all the Republicans were there as well. Why didn't they do anything?
They follow their party, Democrats were more free to vote against it, but so many failed to even ask questions. The press doesn't vote, so although you are mad at the press, I feel like you should be angry with the members of the party that could have done something but didn't. I'm going to have to cut this off for now, I'm not trying to get a final word in, so go ahead and respond, but I probably won't. I respect that we had an actual civil discussion in the soapbox. Unfortunately I'm still running a high fever, and the cold medicine is about to kick in, things are about to get loopy between my ears.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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wizardzz wrote:
Sorry if I sold you short there, didn't mean to throw you all together. I just meant that the industries of physically building things in this country will never be what it was.
no apologies needed I wasn't offended. I actually agree with you, 99% of the people I worked with would not have been able to do it. Not even based on intelligence, but just on years of habits or some such malarkey. I actually worked with a supervisor at one company that had a Bachelors degree in Hydraulic engineering. And a pilots license, small plane and chopper. But he was and still is working for 600 bucks a week out in the muck and mud. Not because of the recession either, hes been doing this for a few years now even before the recession hit. Another one(ironically for the same company) had a veterinarians degree. Working for that same salary. Never understood that myself. ] To me that kind of work is what you do when you don't know how to do anything else. Granted I did it for years but crane operators are paid a lot better than supervisors.. and once I got the push to go, as soon as I had enough degree to get out I was GONE.. :laugh:
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
gavindon wrote:
Another one(ironically for the same company) had a veterinarians degree. Working for that same salary. Never understood that myself.
So you were operating cranes, while he was supposed to be operating on cranes. :doh: -cold medicine talking.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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gavindon wrote:
Another one(ironically for the same company) had a veterinarians degree. Working for that same salary. Never understood that myself.
So you were operating cranes, while he was supposed to be operating on cranes. :doh: -cold medicine talking.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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I'm not going to quote-requote like crazy, it gets unreadable. I can find articles from mainstream media regarding all 3 topics during Bush's administration, the 3 topics were pretty well known at the time, so I feel like you have a selective memory of the press during the time your political enemy was in office...
Majerus wrote:
Since we are talking about the press I don't really understand your point. After all the Republicans were there as well. Why didn't they do anything?
They follow their party, Democrats were more free to vote against it, but so many failed to even ask questions. The press doesn't vote, so although you are mad at the press, I feel like you should be angry with the members of the party that could have done something but didn't. I'm going to have to cut this off for now, I'm not trying to get a final word in, so go ahead and respond, but I probably won't. I respect that we had an actual civil discussion in the soapbox. Unfortunately I'm still running a high fever, and the cold medicine is about to kick in, things are about to get loopy between my ears.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
wizardzz wrote:
I can find articles from mainstream media regarding all 3 topics during Bush's administration, the 3 topics were pretty well known at the time
wizardzz wrote:
To criticize the press for lack of action at the time, when knowledge of such things only came to exist more recently is unfair.
You just said they weren't know at the time. Yes, I know they were know at the time and there was very little on the actual criminal nature of the wiretapping, there was no investigation into the WMD's and the word torture was practically banned from the press.
wizardzz wrote:
so I feel like you have a selective memory of the press
This is like the 3rd time you've brought this up and I'm tired of it.
wizardzz wrote:
They follow their party, Democrats were more free to vote against it, but so many failed to even ask questions.
I agree with your criticism of the Democrats but I reject your excuse for the Republicans.
wizardzz wrote:
They follow their party The press doesn't vote, so although you are mad at the press, I feel like you should be angry with the members of the party that could have done something but didn't.
I am angry with the Democrats for not doing anything. But since we were talking about the bias in the press, I saw no reason to bring it into this discussion. But they are not the "members of the party that could have done something but did not." You exclude the Republicans and they could just as easily have done something. Blind loyalty to the president simply because he comes from the same party is no excuse for inaction. We were talking about the so called bias of the press in favor of Obama. I simply argued that this isn't a liberal bias but a deference to authority. The press went easy on Bush and it's going easy on Obama. The press has failed in it's obligation to question authority.
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wizardzz wrote:
I can find articles from mainstream media regarding all 3 topics during Bush's administration, the 3 topics were pretty well known at the time
wizardzz wrote:
To criticize the press for lack of action at the time, when knowledge of such things only came to exist more recently is unfair.
You just said they weren't know at the time. Yes, I know they were know at the time and there was very little on the actual criminal nature of the wiretapping, there was no investigation into the WMD's and the word torture was practically banned from the press.
wizardzz wrote:
so I feel like you have a selective memory of the press
This is like the 3rd time you've brought this up and I'm tired of it.
wizardzz wrote:
They follow their party, Democrats were more free to vote against it, but so many failed to even ask questions.
I agree with your criticism of the Democrats but I reject your excuse for the Republicans.
wizardzz wrote:
They follow their party The press doesn't vote, so although you are mad at the press, I feel like you should be angry with the members of the party that could have done something but didn't.
I am angry with the Democrats for not doing anything. But since we were talking about the bias in the press, I saw no reason to bring it into this discussion. But they are not the "members of the party that could have done something but did not." You exclude the Republicans and they could just as easily have done something. Blind loyalty to the president simply because he comes from the same party is no excuse for inaction. We were talking about the so called bias of the press in favor of Obama. I simply argued that this isn't a liberal bias but a deference to authority. The press went easy on Bush and it's going easy on Obama. The press has failed in it's obligation to question authority.
Can you please back up your statement regarding the use of the word torture by the press? You really seem firm on it for some reason. Is this something you noticed or something someone told you happened?
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Can you please back up your statement regarding the use of the word torture by the press? You really seem firm on it for some reason. Is this something you noticed or something someone told you happened?
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/waterboarding-and-torture-in-the-american-media/[^] http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/06/22/npr[^] So much so that people made jokes about it http://boingboing.net/2010/10/22/torture.html[^] http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/02/study-of-waterboarding-coverage-prompts-a-debate-in-the-press/[^] http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2010/07/-torture-is-politically-correct/185078/[^]