What's wrong with the ribbon control?
-
I like to instead ask, what was wrong with using toolbars? Was the concept "broke" somehow? Also, I don't need a special "Fluent UI" license to use toolbars. BTW, you did obtain a license for those 3rd party ribbon products your using...right? ;) Office Fluent UI licensing[^]
bob16972 wrote:
Was the concept "broke" somehow?
If it isn't broken, fix it until it is ;P
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
-
I get the impression that quite a few developers here are not impressed with the ribbon concept. If so, what's the main gripe with it? We use the DevExpress ribbon in our apps and it's relatively painless to use and easy to write code for. Perhaps there is a serious flaw with ribbon concepts but out-of-the-box it works, it looks quite nice so why are some folk upset with it?
I'm particularly unimpressed by Microsoft making choices for us. If they develop new technology, why not offer both and let the user choose. Some will prefer the new ribbon, some will continue to use the menus, and then some may use one or the other depending on the kind of work and/or the screen size they are currently facing. Alas, MS think they know best, and they often/sometimes/occasionally (pick one) are wrong... :)
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
The quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get.
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they improve readability.
CP Vanity has been updated to V2.3 -
I like to instead ask, what was wrong with using toolbars? Was the concept "broke" somehow? Also, I don't need a special "Fluent UI" license to use toolbars. BTW, you did obtain a license for those 3rd party ribbon products your using...right? ;) Office Fluent UI licensing[^]
bob16972 wrote:
what was wrong with using toolbars?
Nothing is really wrong with using command line - it is just that it is too hard for non-technical people to catch up. Ribbon is easier to get started with - that's about it.
-
I think it is really ugly and far too big, especially when you compare a typical File tab with a typical File menu.
See if you can crack this: b749f6c269a746243debc6488046e33f
So far, no one seems to have cracked this!The unofficial awesome history of Code Project's Bob! "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
Lloyd Atkinson wrote:
I think it is really ugly
Actually, microsofts examples are quite pretty but that is the problem for me...As a programmer, I'm not all that creative and my icon creation skills are not up to par for what would be required to fit into that environment without my icons sticking out amongs all their standard ones they provide in the MFC Feature Pack directories for Open, Cut, Copy, Paste, etc...
Lloyd Atkinson wrote:
and far too big
I couldn't agree mmore on the amount of wasted real estate for simpler apps, especially on 16:9 16:8 aspect ratio laptop screens. I've tried to develop a few simple proof of concept apps only to find I didn't have enough button elements to justify more than a single tab. That would look pretty odd. A toolbar works for all application sizes.
-
bob16972 wrote:
what was wrong with using toolbars?
Nothing is really wrong with using command line - it is just that it is too hard for non-technical people to catch up. Ribbon is easier to get started with - that's about it.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
it is just that it is too hard for non-technical people
It's a good thing non-technical people didn't exist in the office place before the ribbon came out. Productivity would have come to a standstill back in the 90's. :rolleyes:
-
I'm particularly unimpressed by Microsoft making choices for us. If they develop new technology, why not offer both and let the user choose. Some will prefer the new ribbon, some will continue to use the menus, and then some may use one or the other depending on the kind of work and/or the screen size they are currently facing. Alas, MS think they know best, and they often/sometimes/occasionally (pick one) are wrong... :)
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
The quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get.
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they improve readability.
CP Vanity has been updated to V2.3 -
I get the impression that quite a few developers here are not impressed with the ribbon concept. If so, what's the main gripe with it? We use the DevExpress ribbon in our apps and it's relatively painless to use and easy to write code for. Perhaps there is a serious flaw with ribbon concepts but out-of-the-box it works, it looks quite nice so why are some folk upset with it?
Ultimately, it comes down to personal taste. You like it or you don't. The reasons you give (one way or the other) can't be argued, because, well, it's about taste. I can tell you that of all the clients that I do UI work for, only 1 (out of about 20) somewhat likes it. All the rest vary from mildly not liking it to really hating it. The reasons? Well, it's about taste. How could Microsoft ship such a hated UI? The same way they could ship Vista. Their UI testing boils down to asking people with their heads up their asses. They did it with Vista, they did it with the ribbon, and they're about to do it with Windows 8. Why do they do this? Two words: Bill Gates. He ain't there anymore.
Best wishes, Hans
-
bob16972 wrote:
Was the concept "broke" somehow?
If it isn't broken, fix it until it is ;P
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
Spoken like a true senior software developer. :) So, so, so true.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
-
I like to instead ask, what was wrong with using toolbars? Was the concept "broke" somehow? Also, I don't need a special "Fluent UI" license to use toolbars. BTW, you did obtain a license for those 3rd party ribbon products your using...right? ;) Office Fluent UI licensing[^]
Yes toolbars where a broken concept. Every time I install some tool or application or tab to a different type of window my tool bars go all catty wompus. Even sometimes when I fix them they randomly reset and start wrapping on lines. I don't want my experienced changed because some other developer decided his toolbox should go there by default. That said, I hate the ribbon too. All of the easy stuff is easy to find and all of the hard stuff is nightmarishly complex and hidden based on context.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
-
Yes toolbars where a broken concept. Every time I install some tool or application or tab to a different type of window my tool bars go all catty wompus. Even sometimes when I fix them they randomly reset and start wrapping on lines. I don't want my experienced changed because some other developer decided his toolbox should go there by default. That said, I hate the ribbon too. All of the easy stuff is easy to find and all of the hard stuff is nightmarishly complex and hidden based on context.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
Absotively!
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
-
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
it is just that it is too hard for non-technical people
It's a good thing non-technical people didn't exist in the office place before the ribbon came out. Productivity would have come to a standstill back in the 90's. :rolleyes:
:) It is not about coming to a standstill - people were coping with command-line interfaces before GUI became prevalent. It is about the amount of effort and frustration involved in the process.
-
bob16972 wrote:
Was the concept "broke" somehow?
If it isn't broken, fix it until it is ;P
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
Mark Nischalke wrote:
If it isn't broken, fix it until it is ;-P
I believe I saw that on a Microsoft brochure somewhere....
-
Lloyd Atkinson wrote:
I think it is really ugly
Actually, microsofts examples are quite pretty but that is the problem for me...As a programmer, I'm not all that creative and my icon creation skills are not up to par for what would be required to fit into that environment without my icons sticking out amongs all their standard ones they provide in the MFC Feature Pack directories for Open, Cut, Copy, Paste, etc...
Lloyd Atkinson wrote:
and far too big
I couldn't agree mmore on the amount of wasted real estate for simpler apps, especially on 16:9 16:8 aspect ratio laptop screens. I've tried to develop a few simple proof of concept apps only to find I didn't have enough button elements to justify more than a single tab. That would look pretty odd. A toolbar works for all application sizes.
bob16972 wrote:
standard ones they provide in the MFC Feature Pack directories for Open, Cut, Copy, Paste, etc...
Are you aware of the image library that comes with VS2008 and VS2010? It's installed in the folder ...\Common7\VS2010ImageLibrary (or ...\Common7\VS2008ImageLibrary).
Best wishes, Hans
-
I get the impression that quite a few developers here are not impressed with the ribbon concept. If so, what's the main gripe with it? We use the DevExpress ribbon in our apps and it's relatively painless to use and easy to write code for. Perhaps there is a serious flaw with ribbon concepts but out-of-the-box it works, it looks quite nice so why are some folk upset with it?
What's wrong with the abacus?!!!
-
I'm particularly unimpressed by Microsoft making choices for us. If they develop new technology, why not offer both and let the user choose. Some will prefer the new ribbon, some will continue to use the menus, and then some may use one or the other depending on the kind of work and/or the screen size they are currently facing. Alas, MS think they know best, and they often/sometimes/occasionally (pick one) are wrong... :)
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
The quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get.
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they improve readability.
CP Vanity has been updated to V2.3Can you image the maintenance headaches involved in maintaining all versions of the interface X|
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
-
What's wrong with the abacus?!!!
That's just silly. Everyone knows you have to have a dual-abacus setup for maximum developer productivity.
Best wishes, Hans
-
bob16972 wrote:
standard ones they provide in the MFC Feature Pack directories for Open, Cut, Copy, Paste, etc...
Are you aware of the image library that comes with VS2008 and VS2010? It's installed in the folder ...\Common7\VS2010ImageLibrary (or ...\Common7\VS2008ImageLibrary).
Best wishes, Hans
If that's the same one I've inspected, it would cover maybe 70% of the icons I would need. I was acknowledging that they provide a ton of premixed icons, but inserting one of my crayola creations in the middle of all those ribbon quality professional graphics designer created beauties looks rather odd. Remember, in order to be able to utilize the Microsoft supplied icons, you must adhere to the original usage scenarios that they intended for those icons which limits the ability to substitute them when you need one in a pinch. Hacking an icon that has gradients and alpha channels is proving to be much more difficult than it was previously. I've messed a little with the Axialis IconWorkshop Addin but icon development/management so there is some hope but it all takes time that I'm not used to spending on foo-foo stuff like icons.
-
Can you image the maintenance headaches involved in maintaining all versions of the interface X|
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
yes, I can. We have commands through main menu items, through context menu items, through keyboard shortcuts, and now also through the ribbon. It ain't hard to do it right, just make a Command class, and give it several views. I trust that is what they have done for years, so all it takes is add the graphics of the ribbon, and add the one view. Don't you tell me MS doesn't know how to handle it technically, or doesn't have the means to get it done. IMO they do these things on purpose: all press coverage, all the talking, all the complaints, they are all considered good news. The worst that can happen is people generally dislike it, and then they can "improve" it in the next version (i.e. make it look more like the previous one). :)
Luc Pattyn [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
The quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get.
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they improve readability.
CP Vanity has been updated to V2.3 -
I get the impression that quite a few developers here are not impressed with the ribbon concept. If so, what's the main gripe with it? We use the DevExpress ribbon in our apps and it's relatively painless to use and easy to write code for. Perhaps there is a serious flaw with ribbon concepts but out-of-the-box it works, it looks quite nice so why are some folk upset with it?
- It's different 1) We're not given a choice (other than not to updowngrade) 2) I, for one, prefer words to icons
-
What's wrong with the abacus?!!!
Helllooo! Splinters!