C++ not dead yet
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Hopefully this will change once Windows 8 is out.
I thought Windows 8 was mostly going to use HTML5? I could easily be completely wrong though :-\
Cheers, विक्रम (CCC count - 6.) "We have already been through this, I am not going to repeat myself." - fat_boy, in a global warming thread :doh:
The new desktop will be build on html5/javascript, but you can still use the "classic" desktop if you want to.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
"King of the world Ma!" says Herb Sutter: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/11/herb_sutter_next_c_plus_plus/[^]
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Interesting read. I never stopped with C++ (MFC -> WTL -> Qt) but am slowly doing more and more HTML5/JS work. This might set me up well with Windows 8 ... assuming that anyone cares about another version of Windows of course. What's more interesting is that MS appear to be embracing HTML5/JS instead of their own dogfood if the reports of the new Windows 8 tile UI are anything to go by. I never did see the point to Silverlight - as if the world needs another Flash and the bloated browser plug-in you need to run it! I have zero sympathy for anyone who drank the Silverlight Kool-Aid and are now worrying if they've backed the wrong horse. Without Netflix it would no doubt be 'deprecated' in the same way as VB6.
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
What do you mean killed it?
Killed it for the typical UI dev who's now moved to .NET, WPF, SL etc.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Consider, UI of Microsoft Office, MSN Messenger, Zune, Windows Explorer (almost all Windows Application) - What do you think they are written in? It is kind of strange that Microsoft apps still use internal C++ frameworks which are not released to outside world. And what they release to outside world is not used by them.
Yes, and that is the biggest problem.
Regards, Nish
Are you addicted to CP? If so, check this out: The Code Project Forum Analyzer : Find out how much of a life you don't have! My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
the typical UI dev who's now moved to .NET, WPF, SL etc
Still using MFC here for all UI related stuff. Having fun with the MFC Feature Pack. What exactly is the "Typical" developer like? Do you have real world statistics for this or did you just assume that anyone who is playing around with .NET gave up completely on MFC and WIN32? :confused:
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Interesting read. I never stopped with C++ (MFC -> WTL -> Qt) but am slowly doing more and more HTML5/JS work. This might set me up well with Windows 8 ... assuming that anyone cares about another version of Windows of course. What's more interesting is that MS appear to be embracing HTML5/JS instead of their own dogfood if the reports of the new Windows 8 tile UI are anything to go by. I never did see the point to Silverlight - as if the world needs another Flash and the bloated browser plug-in you need to run it! I have zero sympathy for anyone who drank the Silverlight Kool-Aid and are now worrying if they've backed the wrong horse. Without Netflix it would no doubt be 'deprecated' in the same way as VB6.
Rob Caldecott wrote:
for anyone who drank the Silverlight Kool-Aid
Very nice description. I feel a bit pumped at following the path of rightiousness See Do-I-Walk-Alone
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Interesting read. I never stopped with C++ (MFC -> WTL -> Qt) but am slowly doing more and more HTML5/JS work. This might set me up well with Windows 8 ... assuming that anyone cares about another version of Windows of course. What's more interesting is that MS appear to be embracing HTML5/JS instead of their own dogfood if the reports of the new Windows 8 tile UI are anything to go by. I never did see the point to Silverlight - as if the world needs another Flash and the bloated browser plug-in you need to run it! I have zero sympathy for anyone who drank the Silverlight Kool-Aid and are now worrying if they've backed the wrong horse. Without Netflix it would no doubt be 'deprecated' in the same way as VB6.
I wouldn't dream of letting anyone else palm off some layer-of-indirection or interpretive programming language on me (read: scripts, static markup like HTMLn, or various programming languages that require runtime engines). Never have. Consequently, I've always programmed in MFC which is a very efficient C++ wrapper for interaction with the Windows OS framework. What does C++ have going for it? It is an international standard for one and not subject to market and corporate whims. At any one time there are a 1000 (my guess) Computer Science professors out there free that are making sure the standard is correct, current and useful. Can't say that for the programming language C# and its future. I even suspect that the gold standard for getting an IT dev job is still C++ regardless of what you will actually do when on the job. To Microsoft's credit, they have never stopped supporting MFC and with the new MFC Ribbon UI I finally have 95% (my guess) of the power of MS's internal C++ framework.
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"King of the world Ma!" says Herb Sutter: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/11/herb_sutter_next_c_plus_plus/[^]
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
I use C++ frequently and I really like it.Though I didn't do perfectly in my study.C++ is a internationally popular computer language that almost every computer elite would use.It means the development of computer science.So of course,it's not dead.
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I use C++ frequently and I really like it.Though I didn't do perfectly in my study.C++ is a internationally popular computer language that almost every computer elite would use.It means the development of computer science.So of course,it's not dead.
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"King of the world Ma!" says Herb Sutter: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/11/herb_sutter_next_c_plus_plus/[^]
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
C++ never died. Back in 2003 or so, big players Microsoft, Sun, and IBM were all banging the drum for their bytecode languages (C# and Java) for reasons of competition rather than performance. Also apparently, Microsoft, under the delusion that single-processor throughput was going to continue going up forever, decided to code Vista in C#. The idea was a recurring one in computer science, that performance was irrelevant because processor speedups would always rescue us. Overall, the message was that C++ was dead. But somebody neglected to tell the world of reality. Single-CPU performance plateaued, then actually decreased (because to control power, your multiple cores are each smaller, simpler engines). Vista performance sucked, and was not rescued by Intel this time. Microsoft had to re-code many modules of Vista into C++. Lots of big web sites figured out that their architectures based on python or java or whatever didn't scale, and they had to recode in C++. Some folks like Google were never fooled. So today, like before, C++ is useful when you absolutely gotta go flat out 24/7. Java, python, C#, and the others all have their places, and are fun to use when you can get away with it. But performance is still king. And C++ is the king of performance.
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
the typical UI dev who's now moved to .NET, WPF, SL etc
Still using MFC here for all UI related stuff. Having fun with the MFC Feature Pack. What exactly is the "Typical" developer like? Do you have real world statistics for this or did you just assume that anyone who is playing around with .NET gave up completely on MFC and WIN32? :confused:
Well in my part of the world, you can't find a Windows C++ job in either servers or desktops. If it's even required, it's an afterthought for maintaining legacy code while you work in C# and .Net. 98% of the jobs I see listed for C++ are on Linux. So as far as I am concerned, Microsoft killed the whole C++ and Server development market for their products. There are some server positions for C#, but again what I see posted is well over 90% C++ and Java on Linux.
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Heh, it's definitely not dead in the embedded world! All the firmware I've developed in the last 10 years is written in C++ and it doesn't look like it's going to change soon.
Its interesting you say that. I once posted a comment about hoping C would die and be replaced by C++ and many negative replies later from people who wanted to keep C going I removed the post. I'm now of the opinion that most if not all code should be managed because I don't trust developers to manage memory properly. I wonder if even embedded systems will somehow morph to a managed environment too in the future as the chips get faster and memory gets larger. Obviously not in the near term but maybe in 10 years. A few people here have commented on C++ being used for speed which is important but some examples used here are really just Microsoft not doing premature optimization. As much as people love C++, it reminds me of C and Cobol, slowly decreasing but will probably always be here.
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C++ never died. Back in 2003 or so, big players Microsoft, Sun, and IBM were all banging the drum for their bytecode languages (C# and Java) for reasons of competition rather than performance. Also apparently, Microsoft, under the delusion that single-processor throughput was going to continue going up forever, decided to code Vista in C#. The idea was a recurring one in computer science, that performance was irrelevant because processor speedups would always rescue us. Overall, the message was that C++ was dead. But somebody neglected to tell the world of reality. Single-CPU performance plateaued, then actually decreased (because to control power, your multiple cores are each smaller, simpler engines). Vista performance sucked, and was not rescued by Intel this time. Microsoft had to re-code many modules of Vista into C++. Lots of big web sites figured out that their architectures based on python or java or whatever didn't scale, and they had to recode in C++. Some folks like Google were never fooled. So today, like before, C++ is useful when you absolutely gotta go flat out 24/7. Java, python, C#, and the others all have their places, and are fun to use when you can get away with it. But performance is still king. And C++ is the king of performance.
.Net handles parallelism with various libraries and languages. I imagine Java does too. Google uses Python a lot. Though speed is very nice and important, memory management appears to have been such an issue that managed languages appear to be slowly taking over and I doubt there will be a full scale return to unmanaged languages. C++ has its uses like C, Cobol and Fortran but I doubt it will return to its full glory ever again. People don't change, so we build systems to make it safer and easier for them, whether that be in computers or other walks of life. I don't expect that trend to stop.
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Heh, it's definitely not dead in the embedded world! All the firmware I've developed in the last 10 years is written in C++ and it doesn't look like it's going to change soon.
Wow!Fantastic!It's a great honor to meet you!I'm just a college student and I don't think I'm good at coding.So I'll very appreciated if I can study from you.I'll graduate next year.The big challenge for me is looking for an ideal job.I'm in China.The IT industry is quite blooming.But it's also a difficult task for me to have a nice job.I'm a girl and maybe it's a little bit tough for girls to do this kind of job.So can you give me some advice?Thanks very much!! :)
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Its interesting you say that. I once posted a comment about hoping C would die and be replaced by C++ and many negative replies later from people who wanted to keep C going I removed the post. I'm now of the opinion that most if not all code should be managed because I don't trust developers to manage memory properly. I wonder if even embedded systems will somehow morph to a managed environment too in the future as the chips get faster and memory gets larger. Obviously not in the near term but maybe in 10 years. A few people here have commented on C++ being used for speed which is important but some examples used here are really just Microsoft not doing premature optimization. As much as people love C++, it reminds me of C and Cobol, slowly decreasing but will probably always be here.
I worry about memory management too. Basically, I don't do any dynamic memory allocation/deallocation durning the running of the embedded system. If I do allocate some memory via alloc or new, it's only done during system initialization. I work on a large range of embedded processors, 8051s (yuck), ARMs, TI DSPs and x86 based systems. The only system where I could see using managed code is on the x86 system. It's not really real time and has a fair amount of memory (128mb). The other systems are pushing the edge on performance and memory (8051 -> 4k). I wouldn't think you could do managed code in the 8051. The latest DSP system I'm working on probably has the memory for it but is close to the limit on how much more it can do and still meet its deadlines. All these systems run on some type of RTOS as opposed to Windows so the point is probably moot anyway. Other than that, I do think C++ is on the upswing in the embedded world.
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I worry about memory management too. Basically, I don't do any dynamic memory allocation/deallocation durning the running of the embedded system. If I do allocate some memory via alloc or new, it's only done during system initialization. I work on a large range of embedded processors, 8051s (yuck), ARMs, TI DSPs and x86 based systems. The only system where I could see using managed code is on the x86 system. It's not really real time and has a fair amount of memory (128mb). The other systems are pushing the edge on performance and memory (8051 -> 4k). I wouldn't think you could do managed code in the 8051. The latest DSP system I'm working on probably has the memory for it but is close to the limit on how much more it can do and still meet its deadlines. All these systems run on some type of RTOS as opposed to Windows so the point is probably moot anyway. Other than that, I do think C++ is on the upswing in the embedded world.