Windows 8 - Scary.
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Scary how? Because MS might 'do a VB6' on Silverlight? Or scary that the might be embracing a more open standard? :) This is exciting, not scary. If people can write apps in something other than proprietary tools and frameworks then it might earn MS some street-cred and get some more developers on-side. God knows they need to do something as they are looking increasingly irrelevant.
I agree wholeheartedly, besides, what are the MSDN developer licenses going for these days? this is M$ grabbing for a lifeline, and perhaps they will succeed.
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Doesn't anyone remember active desktop, hta files and behaviors? Microsoft put a lot of effort into working proprietary HTML into the OS UI in 98, and then yanked it all after the Netscape and EU lawsuits. It looks like they are going back to their original plan, though hopefully in a way that is less likely to cause it all to get yanked again.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
AS long as they don't Pirate the standards this time, and dilute the solutions.
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I fail to see what the problem is. They wanted to Show their new "Tabletified" Metro interface to say "Hey, look, we're in with the cool kids too", and why not, they do have to sell software after all. Metro isn't suitable for proper desktops, so Aero is still there. The HTML5 they showed was the "Panels" really just Widgets++ that we've had in Vista and Win7 AFAICT. I *doubt* that Microsoft hasn't considered how applications are going to be developed for its spanky new OS, after all this is the main thing it has over the Control-Freakery that is Mac and the tooling for HTML5 (or just HTML) just isn't there yet. We may see a "write like a Desktop render to HTML5" strategy somehow, even using WPF for instance. I'm quite excited even if we do have new technologies to learn, this is one of the best things about IT.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
Have you watched the whole videos? 1) They are not going to abandon .Net 2) You can choose that touchy wp7 like interface or the normal(win 7 like) desktop. 3) It will still run good old legacy win apps(on x86 machines). On ARM sure there will be a version of office and the likes for ARM but legacy apps(especially C/C++ ones) not so much. 4) Hell you could even write winforms apps for it! So why scary? Why panic? No need just yet. :)
All the best, Dan
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I fail to see what the problem is. They wanted to Show their new "Tabletified" Metro interface to say "Hey, look, we're in with the cool kids too", and why not, they do have to sell software after all. Metro isn't suitable for proper desktops, so Aero is still there. The HTML5 they showed was the "Panels" really just Widgets++ that we've had in Vista and Win7 AFAICT. I *doubt* that Microsoft hasn't considered how applications are going to be developed for its spanky new OS, after all this is the main thing it has over the Control-Freakery that is Mac and the tooling for HTML5 (or just HTML) just isn't there yet. We may see a "write like a Desktop render to HTML5" strategy somehow, even using WPF for instance. I'm quite excited even if we do have new technologies to learn, this is one of the best things about IT.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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Honestly, I don't think it's scary at all. The HTML 5/JavaScript layer is for the touch screen apps, the .NET/Silverlight/WPF/Winforms is for "legacy" apps. People have been blowing this way out of proportion ever since the video was released. I get the feeling that although this is a big announcement from Microsoft, we as developers will find little changed in the technology end. Anyone developing for Windows Phone 7 will have a slight advantage since the tile concept is roughly the same. I'm looking forward to digging into the new APIs myself. :-\ Flynn
Well, I see two scary things at least. The prospect of having to write any serious application with HTML aand JavaScript is scary. Should I ever discover my masochistic side, I will find better ways to live it out. And the second scary thing is the word 'legacy'. That's usually just one tiny step away from 'obsolete'.
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
Enough! I hereby declare that only posts that explicitly quote an official Microsoft statement on this single, brief, UI demo will henceforth be admissible. Knowing Microsoft's excellent ability to communicate, that should give us about 6 months of quiet on the topic. So to reiterate everything ever said on this: a) Microsoft have never, ever said they are ditching everything for HTML5. b) Remember when .NET was going to mean the end of everything good and proper about programming? Yup.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Well, I see two scary things at least. The prospect of having to write any serious application with HTML aand JavaScript is scary. Should I ever discover my masochistic side, I will find better ways to live it out. And the second scary thing is the word 'legacy'. That's usually just one tiny step away from 'obsolete'.
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011They never said "HTML/JavaScript will supersede WFP/Silverlight applications, which are considered legacy." They mentioned two things, and not in relation to each other. One thing they mentioned is that Windows 8 will run legacy applications (e.g., Microsoft Word) and that developers can take advantage of a new HTML/JavaScript API (new in the sense that it didn't exist before, not in the sense that it is the successor of something else). There is plenty to be scared of out there if we let our imaginations guide us. But as far as what has actually been said, I don't see anything scary other than the knee-jerk fear other developers have been expressing.
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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They never said "HTML/JavaScript will supersede WFP/Silverlight applications, which are considered legacy." They mentioned two things, and not in relation to each other. One thing they mentioned is that Windows 8 will run legacy applications (e.g., Microsoft Word) and that developers can take advantage of a new HTML/JavaScript API (new in the sense that it didn't exist before, not in the sense that it is the successor of something else). There is plenty to be scared of out there if we let our imaginations guide us. But as far as what has actually been said, I don't see anything scary other than the knee-jerk fear other developers have been expressing.
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
new in the sense that it didn't exist before, not in the sense that it is the successor of something else)
I think the something else is called asp.net I would willing to put money on the idea that coding for the web and coding for (the new UI for) the desktop will be done from the code generator.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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AspDotNetDev wrote:
new in the sense that it didn't exist before, not in the sense that it is the successor of something else)
I think the something else is called asp.net I would willing to put money on the idea that coding for the web and coding for (the new UI for) the desktop will be done from the code generator.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Just so I understand you, you are guessing that the new HTML/JavaScript environment will be the successor of ASP.NET? And that this successor will be acceptable not only on the web but also on the desktop? Or, do you mean to say that they are really just talking about allowing ASP.NET to run on the desktop (perhaps with improved tooling to allow for a better experience for developers when coding these applications)? I think that would actually be pretty neat (that is, allowing ASP.NET applications to easily run on the desktop, with JavaScript API's to better integrate with native desktop functionality). And of course (and this is really a clarification for others, just so they don't freak out), that indicates nothing of what other development technologies will be on the desktop (e.g., WPF). If this is indeed the case, it would make creating applications like ScrewTurn Wiki Desktop Edition much easier (ScrewTurn uses a custom web server so that it can make use of ASP.NET without an external server).
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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It's probably a marketing gaffe, on the other hand if windows is going on arm processors then .net could really be in trouble, with the fact that the plug has been pulled on mono. I'm not a fan of WPF as I find it too complex and bloated in it's implementation ( the idea is great decoupling the view from the backend code), and silverlight is much better and leaner but lacks essentials for true business applications. That's my 2 cents.
Its the man, not the machine - Chuck Yeager If at first you don't succeed... get a better publicist
Mehdi Gholam wrote:
I'm not a fan of WPF as I find it too complex and bloated in it's implementation
AMEN!
Wout
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I fail to see what the problem is. They wanted to Show their new "Tabletified" Metro interface to say "Hey, look, we're in with the cool kids too", and why not, they do have to sell software after all. Metro isn't suitable for proper desktops, so Aero is still there. The HTML5 they showed was the "Panels" really just Widgets++ that we've had in Vista and Win7 AFAICT. I *doubt* that Microsoft hasn't considered how applications are going to be developed for its spanky new OS, after all this is the main thing it has over the Control-Freakery that is Mac and the tooling for HTML5 (or just HTML) just isn't there yet. We may see a "write like a Desktop render to HTML5" strategy somehow, even using WPF for instance. I'm quite excited even if we do have new technologies to learn, this is one of the best things about IT.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]Keith Barrow wrote:
I'm quite excited even if we do have new technologies to learn, this is one of the best things about IT.
I'm still catching up. I see potential for Silverlight I have to say.
Wout
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Just so I understand you, you are guessing that the new HTML/JavaScript environment will be the successor of ASP.NET? And that this successor will be acceptable not only on the web but also on the desktop? Or, do you mean to say that they are really just talking about allowing ASP.NET to run on the desktop (perhaps with improved tooling to allow for a better experience for developers when coding these applications)? I think that would actually be pretty neat (that is, allowing ASP.NET applications to easily run on the desktop, with JavaScript API's to better integrate with native desktop functionality). And of course (and this is really a clarification for others, just so they don't freak out), that indicates nothing of what other development technologies will be on the desktop (e.g., WPF). If this is indeed the case, it would make creating applications like ScrewTurn Wiki Desktop Edition much easier (ScrewTurn uses a custom web server so that it can make use of ASP.NET without an external server).
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
You understood me correctly. I suppose that there are enough fools at MSFT these days to actually create two separate HTML/JS generators, but I'd like to think there was enough sense left there to focus on one.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Enough! I hereby declare that only posts that explicitly quote an official Microsoft statement on this single, brief, UI demo will henceforth be admissible. Knowing Microsoft's excellent ability to communicate, that should give us about 6 months of quiet on the topic. So to reiterate everything ever said on this: a) Microsoft have never, ever said they are ditching everything for HTML5. b) Remember when .NET was going to mean the end of everything good and proper about programming? Yup.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
b) Remember when .NET was going to mean the end of everything good and proper about programming? Yup.
I remember when C++ was the abomination that was going to destroy the good, the true and the beautiful.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Keith Barrow wrote:
I'm quite excited even if we do have new technologies to learn, this is one of the best things about IT.
I'm still catching up. I see potential for Silverlight I have to say.
Wout
wout de zeeuw wrote:
I see potential for Silverlight I have to say.
Me too, I've used WPF extensively and the little Silverlight I used was very similar. When I was asked to do some classic Winforms stuff I found it very clunky in comparison, even after 6 months.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
Well, I see two scary things at least. The prospect of having to write any serious application with HTML aand JavaScript is scary. Should I ever discover my masochistic side, I will find better ways to live it out. And the second scary thing is the word 'legacy'. That's usually just one tiny step away from 'obsolete'.
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011CDP1802 wrote:
The prospect of having to write any serious application with HTML aand JavaScript is scary.
I don't seen anyone writing/proposing serious LOB apps with HTML/JavaScript though. Sure, you can probably force something together, but why when other technologies are still available to use? C/C++, C#, Silverlight, XNA, XAML, etc. are all still forward moving technologies. HTML5/JS is being promoted for the new interface only. As for calling the other 'legacy' I'm pretty sure it's mostly marketing mis-speak. I think a better word would have been 'current'. Certainly would have calmed a lot of the people in the development community. :-\
CDP1802 wrote:
Should I ever discover my masochistic side, I will find better ways to live it out.
VB 6? (couldn't resist, heh) Flynn