Carbon taxes [modified]
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I'm not sure what you're asking ? My view, based on a lot of reading of opposing views, is that it's probable that we're having an impact on climate, but that vested interests are exaggerating it. However, that's one step removed from my point because, I am saying that there is no set of circumstances under which a carbon tax is an effective tool for anything other than revenue raising.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
there is no set of circumstances under which a carbon tax is an effective tool for anything other than revenue raising.
no matter what they say, That's the truth!!
You can flame me whichever way you want and I wouldn't care a bit. But if you group me with some idiots, I'll turn into your worst nightmare.
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I'm not sure what you're asking ? My view, based on a lot of reading of opposing views, is that it's probable that we're having an impact on climate, but that vested interests are exaggerating it. However, that's one step removed from my point because, I am saying that there is no set of circumstances under which a carbon tax is an effective tool for anything other than revenue raising.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
I am saying that there is no set of circumstances under which a carbon tax is an effective tool for anything other than revenue raising.
i find myself agreeing with you on this salient point - ya big tree hugging pinko leftie :) and i think the majority of australia agrees with you. Now, what do you make of Ms Gillard in general? bryce
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff The Snotgoblin for the Ipad
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Christian Graus wrote:
I am saying that there is no set of circumstances under which a carbon tax is an effective tool for anything other than revenue raising.
i find myself agreeing with you on this salient point - ya big tree hugging pinko leftie :) and i think the majority of australia agrees with you. Now, what do you make of Ms Gillard in general? bryce
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff The Snotgoblin for the Ipad
bryce wrote:
Now, what do you make of Ms Gillard in general?
Bloody useless. But, no better or worse than any other politician I've seen.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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bryce wrote:
Now, what do you make of Ms Gillard in general?
Bloody useless. But, no better or worse than any other politician I've seen.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Bloody useless.
care to expand? bryce
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff The Snotgoblin for the Ipad
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Christian Graus wrote:
Bloody useless.
care to expand? bryce
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff The Snotgoblin for the Ipad
She obviously lied about the carbon tax. She's the captain of the ship that has no idea what to do about refugees, and would prefer to benefit from inciting racism in the community, than fixing the problem. What has she done that's remotely noteworthy ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I'm told India has a carbon tax now, is that right ? I think it's the highest order of stupidity. Assuming that carbon is warming our atmosphere at the rate some claim, why spend a fortune so that instead of getting to xx ppm in Jan, we get there in June ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
modified on Monday, July 4, 2011 12:27 AM
Mm.. politic in the lounge? Personally I think it's great. The idea is to make polluting stuff more expensive (ideally they could (but they won't :( ) use the revenue for cleaning up) and clean stuff comparatively less attractive. There is a necessity to promote less polluting stuff, survival is at stake. What's not to love with doing something about it?
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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Mm.. politic in the lounge? Personally I think it's great. The idea is to make polluting stuff more expensive (ideally they could (but they won't :( ) use the revenue for cleaning up) and clean stuff comparatively less attractive. There is a necessity to promote less polluting stuff, survival is at stake. What's not to love with doing something about it?
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
Super Lloyd wrote:
What's not to love with doing something about it?
All sorts of things. First of all, big business is lining up for exemptions, and people on low incomes are being given rebates so they are not impacted. If most people get a rebate, then how is it going to control emissions ? Second - if you think that CO2 is choking the earth, how does a tax stop it ? If it slows down emissions, then that just means we get to the same concentration point, slightly later. How would that help, long term ? Finally, what are the odds of these taxes being used to do anything to promote alternative energy sources ? Very small, I'd say.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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She obviously lied about the carbon tax. She's the captain of the ship that has no idea what to do about refugees, and would prefer to benefit from inciting racism in the community, than fixing the problem. What has she done that's remotely noteworthy ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
What has she done that's remotely noteworthy ?
why knifed Kevin Rudd of course! other than that..ahh errm ahh - didnt she open a school or a mall or something? Bryce
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff The Snotgoblin for the Ipad
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Christian Graus wrote:
What has she done that's remotely noteworthy ?
why knifed Kevin Rudd of course! other than that..ahh errm ahh - didnt she open a school or a mall or something? Bryce
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff The Snotgoblin for the Ipad
Well, I never liked Kevin, but I like her less.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Super Lloyd wrote:
What's not to love with doing something about it?
All sorts of things. First of all, big business is lining up for exemptions, and people on low incomes are being given rebates so they are not impacted. If most people get a rebate, then how is it going to control emissions ? Second - if you think that CO2 is choking the earth, how does a tax stop it ? If it slows down emissions, then that just means we get to the same concentration point, slightly later. How would that help, long term ? Finally, what are the odds of these taxes being used to do anything to promote alternative energy sources ? Very small, I'd say.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
All sorts of things. First of all, big business is lining up for exemptions, and people on low incomes are being given rebates so they are not impacted. If most people get a rebate, then how is it going to control emissions ?
Well... err.. put this way, if Carbon Tax is vapor ware, while it's indeed going to do nothing!!! What's the point of whinging against it?
Christian Graus wrote:
Second - if you think that CO2 is choking the earth, how does a tax stop it ? If it slows down emissions, then that just means we get to the same concentration point, slightly later. How would that help, long term ?
Well.. it's supposed to increase the price of polluting technology, thus improving the attractiveness (hence RnD) of less polluting ones. That's the idea! It would be nice if we could do some sort of random trial about it...
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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I'm told India has a carbon tax now, is that right ? I think it's the highest order of stupidity. Assuming that carbon is warming our atmosphere at the rate some claim, why spend a fortune so that instead of getting to xx ppm in Jan, we get there in June ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
modified on Monday, July 4, 2011 12:27 AM
Naturally Carbon taxes wont make any difference to the climate. What they will do is ensure the continued supply of fossil fuels for the rich. Such is life, a continual abuse by those with power and money in the pursuit of continued power and money. When was it any different? :)
Life is a bitch, then you die. So have fun anyway! :)
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Naturally Carbon taxes wont make any difference to the climate. What they will do is ensure the continued supply of fossil fuels for the rich. Such is life, a continual abuse by those with power and money in the pursuit of continued power and money. When was it any different? :)
Life is a bitch, then you die. So have fun anyway! :)
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Eric__V wrote:
What they will do is ensure the continued supply of fossil fuels for the rich.
Is there a strategy that insures that won't happen?
Yes, develop alternative energy sources. But for gods sake do it for the right reasons, and not because of AGW. AGW is in the process of debasing science and technology. Even after it is dead, it will take generations for these two to recover their good name.
Life is a bitch, then you die. So have fun anyway! :)
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Yes, develop alternative energy sources. But for gods sake do it for the right reasons, and not because of AGW. AGW is in the process of debasing science and technology. Even after it is dead, it will take generations for these two to recover their good name.
Life is a bitch, then you die. So have fun anyway! :)
Eric__V wrote:
Yes, develop alternative energy sources.
Yes, which is why I've been advocating the increased use of oil, etc. Run out of it more quickly and there'll be a bigger incentive to find something else. (Other nice effects, too.) But as long as it is cheaper to drill and mine, the drilling and mining will continue....done by the same people, reaping the same benefits. Not saying they're evil. Not saying they're greedy. Saying that's their business and business is good. Let 'em find another business, or at least branch out more vigorously. But why should they, when government regs are pretty much guaranteeing them many many more years of it by restricting the flow, which also drives the price up without really increasing the cost of doing business much (if at all)?
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
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Well, I never liked Kevin, but I like her less.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Just read that as:
Christian Graus wrote:
Well, I never killed Kevin
:-D
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Eric__V wrote:
Yes, develop alternative energy sources.
Yes, which is why I've been advocating the increased use of oil, etc. Run out of it more quickly and there'll be a bigger incentive to find something else. (Other nice effects, too.) But as long as it is cheaper to drill and mine, the drilling and mining will continue....done by the same people, reaping the same benefits. Not saying they're evil. Not saying they're greedy. Saying that's their business and business is good. Let 'em find another business, or at least branch out more vigorously. But why should they, when government regs are pretty much guaranteeing them many many more years of it by restricting the flow, which also drives the price up without really increasing the cost of doing business much (if at all)?
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
Yeah, quite agree. It's just human nature to pirsue maximum profits with minimum effort. In fact it's pretty much fundamental to the entire planet and all life in it, ie, greed is natural. :) We need to keep a fair bit of oil and coal back, its used alot ini the chemical industry, so before we burn all of it we need to develope alternative energy sources. Another good reason to do so is to stop pumping billions of dollars and euros into the middle east. If we did, then alot of todays problems would go away.
Life is a bitch, then you die. So have fun anyway! :)
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Yeah, quite agree. It's just human nature to pirsue maximum profits with minimum effort. In fact it's pretty much fundamental to the entire planet and all life in it, ie, greed is natural. :) We need to keep a fair bit of oil and coal back, its used alot ini the chemical industry, so before we burn all of it we need to develope alternative energy sources. Another good reason to do so is to stop pumping billions of dollars and euros into the middle east. If we did, then alot of todays problems would go away.
Life is a bitch, then you die. So have fun anyway! :)
Eric__V wrote:
Another good reason to do so is to stop pumping billions of dollars and euros into the middle east. If we did, then alot of todays problems would go away.
That was one of the added benefits alluded to. Use it all up and they'll have to get real jobs. :laugh:
We were waiting, We were watching. Yes we knew it all along. You were wrong. My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
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Eric__V wrote:
Another good reason to do so is to stop pumping billions of dollars and euros into the middle east. If we did, then alot of todays problems would go away.
That was one of the added benefits alluded to. Use it all up and they'll have to get real jobs. :laugh:
We were waiting, We were watching. Yes we knew it all along. You were wrong. My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
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I'm told India has a carbon tax now, is that right ? I think it's the highest order of stupidity. Assuming that carbon is warming our atmosphere at the rate some claim, why spend a fortune so that instead of getting to xx ppm in Jan, we get there in June ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
modified on Monday, July 4, 2011 12:27 AM
To irritate them I ask what they mean by carbon, and whether they know what carbon dioxide is. Then I can go onto the ban-sodium-chloride-because-chlorine-is-bad campaign. If I meet a real fundy greenie I can try and get them excited about banning H2O. You can drown in H2O.
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I'm told India has a carbon tax now, is that right ? I think it's the highest order of stupidity. Assuming that carbon is warming our atmosphere at the rate some claim, why spend a fortune so that instead of getting to xx ppm in Jan, we get there in June ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
modified on Monday, July 4, 2011 12:27 AM