Creationism... again.
-
All credit to my grandfather... Was a smart man.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I wish my father and grandfather were like that. I wouldn't have had to wait until my mid 20s until I figured out how to ask "Why" to what I was taught to believe. (That is not to say I don't love and respect them, they were amazing, highly intelligent people who simply didn't have access to all the acquired human knowledge I have)
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
Hardly an argument. They were in a world dominated by Religion. Galileo was under the cosh, Bacon was an Atheist, and Copernicus was silenced for quite a while. Scientific Methodology cannot be subject to dogma.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Scientific Methodology cannot be subject to dogma.
Is that why when it was suggested that washing hands before surgery was a good thing, no one wanted to do it? Even after proof that babies were more likely to live if the deliverer washed first? Science has its own dogma that gets thrown out on occasion.
-
Because there are things you cant talk about, and also do you not respect him or her less?
============================== Nothing to say.
Eric__V wrote:
do you not respect him or her less?
I have lots of religious friends as well. They range from fundamentalist christians, mainstream christians, fundamentalist muslims, mainstream muslims, hindus and jews. Respect from me is not earned by what you believe, it is based on how you behave.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
I'm going to throw the 'Liberal Christian' take into this. I believe the Bible, it is a very good analogy of early world history. Take Genesis 1, there was nothing, then light [big bang], the earth formed, land and sea separated [forming the continents], all the plants and animals, and finally man. It did happen that way, just not in seven days. All these numpty dumpties forget that Darwin was a clergyman before being a scientist. There is no conflict, for me at least, between biblical teaching and scientific fact. FFS half the breakthroughs used to question religion where made by very religious people. [No I can't be fraked to list any more] Take the religion out of what the Bible, or Koran for that matter, teaches and it's good common sense with a strong moral overtone of looking after everyone. Just my penny's worth.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
There is some reasonable knowledge in the books you talk of, but the problem with the religious is that they can't differentiate between the good and the crap which also exists in these books. The parts that teach them to hate others because they were born on the wrong side of the river, for example, or the other ridiculousness that exists. That is the dangerous part that is the cause of many of the world's issues today.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
Can religious teachings prove evolution to be true?[^] Interesting article with some of the comments even more interesting. In particular I enjoyed this snippet from one Oliver Elphick. "On the basis of my experience of God, on the evidence of the evident supernatural authorship of the bible, on the word of Jesus that authenticates it and on the verification of his claim to be God by his resurrection, I have ample evidence to believe that God is absolutely trustworthy and that his word is true. It follows then that his account of creation is true; since it contradicts the story of evolution, that must be false." You have to laugh at the mind-boggling ignorance of such drivel. He cites fantasy as evidence and then uses that evidence to argue that the rest of his evidence is true and things for which there is real evidence are false. He has ample evidence? "on the verification of his claim to be God by his resurrection" You what? What verification? There isn't even any evidence that JayCee ever existed never mind managed to die and then come back 3 days later. Thank god I'm an atheist. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I do not consider myself an Atheist nor am I attached to any one religion. I believe in one's spirituality but not in God per se. I despise organized religion and all that goes with it. I don't trust anyone (completely) who follows a dogma or doctrine of faith when it comes to religion.
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
-
I wish my father and grandfather were like that. I wouldn't have had to wait until my mid 20s until I figured out how to ask "Why" to what I was taught to believe. (That is not to say I don't love and respect them, they were amazing, highly intelligent people who simply didn't have access to all the acquired human knowledge I have)
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
My parents had it right... They made it clear from the beginning that I was free to pick any religion I wanted, and they would support me. I picked none.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Eric__V wrote:
Because there are things you cant talk about
None that we actually want to talk about.
Eric__V wrote:
and also do you not respect him or her less?
Maybe marginally, but it still leaves him way ahead of everyone else. Everyone has their faults, myself included of course.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I had a really good friend, then she became a Christian. There were times when I felt embarraed talking to her, because she would talk about her faith and I didnt want to upset her by attacking her beliefs. It limited our openness and communication with each other. She later left, her very religious husband and pretty much got back to her old self. And we got on a lot better. :)
============================== Nothing to say.
-
Eric__V wrote:
do you not respect him or her less?
I have lots of religious friends as well. They range from fundamentalist christians, mainstream christians, fundamentalist muslims, mainstream muslims, hindus and jews. Respect from me is not earned by what you believe, it is based on how you behave.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
I do not consider myself an Atheist nor am I attached to any one religion. I believe in one's spirituality but not in God per se. I despise organized religion and all that goes with it. I don't trust anyone (completely) who follows a dogma or doctrine of faith when it comes to religion.
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
-
Hardly an argument. They were in a world dominated by Religion. Galileo was under the cosh, Bacon was an Atheist, and Copernicus was silenced for quite a while. Scientific Methodology cannot be subject to dogma.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
They were in a world dominated by Religion
Doesn't alter the fact that they beleived in the great sky pixie, weren't stupid and were all religious. Equally there have been devout atheists throughout the last 2 millenia of European history. I've no problem with the idea that some pixie-worshippers are exactly as you described, but there is a tendancy to tar them all with the same brush and assume they are all stupid.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
I have joined the rank of the Neo-Atheists. We don't just not believe, we actively denigrate and fight against any form of religiousism. We laugh at the stupidity of believers, take objection to anything that obligates us to any form of religious observance and pour scorn upon unnatural or immoral acts that are carried out in the name of a etherial sky pixie.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
:laugh:
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
-
Hardly an argument. They were in a world dominated by Religion. Galileo was under the cosh, Bacon was an Atheist, and Copernicus was silenced for quite a while. Scientific Methodology cannot be subject to dogma.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Bacon was an Atheist
It appeareth in nothing more, that atheism is rather in the lip, than in the heart of man, than by this; that atheists will ever be talking of that their opinion, as if they fainted in it, within themselves, and would be glad to be strengthened, by the consent of others.Of Atheism - Francis Bacon Are you sure he was an atheist?
ict558 - a Coward and a Fool. Dalek Dave & Hokum (Therefore it must be so, alas.)
-
I have joined the rank of the Neo-Atheists. We don't just not believe, we actively denigrate and fight against any form of religiousism. We laugh at the stupidity of believers, take objection to anything that obligates us to any form of religious observance and pour scorn upon unnatural or immoral acts that are carried out in the name of a etherial sky pixie.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
I have joined the rank of the Neo-Atheists
I've seen the Matrix. I believe that Neo exists.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
-
Can religious teachings prove evolution to be true?[^] Interesting article with some of the comments even more interesting. In particular I enjoyed this snippet from one Oliver Elphick. "On the basis of my experience of God, on the evidence of the evident supernatural authorship of the bible, on the word of Jesus that authenticates it and on the verification of his claim to be God by his resurrection, I have ample evidence to believe that God is absolutely trustworthy and that his word is true. It follows then that his account of creation is true; since it contradicts the story of evolution, that must be false." You have to laugh at the mind-boggling ignorance of such drivel. He cites fantasy as evidence and then uses that evidence to argue that the rest of his evidence is true and things for which there is real evidence are false. He has ample evidence? "on the verification of his claim to be God by his resurrection" You what? What verification? There isn't even any evidence that JayCee ever existed never mind managed to die and then come back 3 days later. Thank god I'm an atheist. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I don't have a problem with religion it's what people do in the name of religion. Technology would probably be a lot further along if the church hadn't silenced/persecuted scientists of the time.
-
I do not consider myself an Atheist nor am I attached to any one religion. I believe in one's spirituality but not in God per se. I despise organized religion and all that goes with it. I don't trust anyone (completely) who follows a dogma or doctrine of faith when it comes to religion.
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
Ditto...well put!
-
You misunderstand what I mean by respect. If you have a friend who has what you consider a major psychological limitation then you do not think less of them?
============================== Nothing to say.
Actually, I don't. It would disgust me to no end if I did because everyone has different limitations, and I know mine very well. If I was to discriminate my respect based on psychological limitation then I may as well do it based on skin color, or hair color, or other things that really just don't matter.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
Hardly an argument. They were in a world dominated by Religion. Galileo was under the cosh, Bacon was an Atheist, and Copernicus was silenced for quite a while. Scientific Methodology cannot be subject to dogma.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Scientific Methodology cannot be subject to dogma.
Except when it comes to Global War --- arrrrg!
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
-
I have joined the rank of the Neo-Atheists. We don't just not believe, we actively denigrate and fight against any form of religiousism. We laugh at the stupidity of believers, take objection to anything that obligates us to any form of religious observance and pour scorn upon unnatural or immoral acts that are carried out in the name of a etherial sky pixie.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
we actively denigrate and fight against any form of religiousism.
I follow no religion, my belief in anything not of the physical world is no-one's business but my own, and I freely admit I can claim no pipeline to information about things that exist or don't exist outside of space-time as I experience it. Folks that say they know there is a God, because they believe in Him, and folks who say they know there isn't a god because they don't believe in him have always struck me as being to opposite side of the same coin. When either group starts name-calling and otherwise attacking those who don't agree with them, they pretty much prove I'm right. I find it relatively easy to respect most Christians for the way they practice their religion, ditto for most other religions that do not insist on conversion as a prerequisite to surviving. I feel pretty much the same way about most atheists - except for those who need to shout their religious revelations about the lack of God's existence from the rooftops and generally being a PITA. Life, I find, is too short to worry about such things and when they do impinge on my consciousness, I either laugh at them - as I do at the creationist in the OP, or the atheist like Bertrand Russel who comes across just as pompously -- or I sic the dogs on them - which can make me laugh, too.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
-
I do not consider myself an Atheist nor am I attached to any one religion. I believe in one's spirituality but not in God per se. I despise organized religion and all that goes with it. I don't trust anyone (completely) who follows a dogma or doctrine of faith when it comes to religion.
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
Slacker007 wrote:
I don't trust anyone (completely) who follows a dogma or doctrine of faith when it comes to religion.
well said
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
-
Can religious teachings prove evolution to be true?[^] Interesting article with some of the comments even more interesting. In particular I enjoyed this snippet from one Oliver Elphick. "On the basis of my experience of God, on the evidence of the evident supernatural authorship of the bible, on the word of Jesus that authenticates it and on the verification of his claim to be God by his resurrection, I have ample evidence to believe that God is absolutely trustworthy and that his word is true. It follows then that his account of creation is true; since it contradicts the story of evolution, that must be false." You have to laugh at the mind-boggling ignorance of such drivel. He cites fantasy as evidence and then uses that evidence to argue that the rest of his evidence is true and things for which there is real evidence are false. He has ample evidence? "on the verification of his claim to be God by his resurrection" You what? What verification? There isn't even any evidence that JayCee ever existed never mind managed to die and then come back 3 days later. Thank god I'm an atheist. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Of course there are points in which people become stupid... when one reaches the point of think on the start of everything... like I don't know the big-bang? the first alive thing in our planet? I guess that no one has the right answer then speaking about a GOD can be as correct as speaking about any other thing. I believe and for me it is not a problem... of course I never will say statements like those ones... I guess that any other person out there I get my perception that I'm believing in the exact and correct ratio... this is like when one is driving... all the drivers that are faster than one are mad people and all the drivers that are slower should be banned from the roads... Anyway, and once this said I'll tell something that will be not popular... All this post should be moved to the back room...
[www.tamelectromecanica.com] Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing.
