Programming is not a long term career
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Joe Simes wrote:
I'm 46 and I have no aspirations to management so I guess I'm stuck as the greybeard programmer!
You're barely into middle age. I'm 68.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
I don't think anyone in my family has lived to 92 so I'm past the halfway point! :) 'course if I live to 92 I'll still be working ... the ex made sure of that! :doh:
The environment that nurtures creative programmers kills management and marketing types - and vice versa. - Orson Scott Card
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To those of you who program for a living, look around. How many programmers do you see who are older than 30? Older than 35? Older than 40? It's my guess that, as you proceed through the increasing ages, you will find fewer and fewer hands-on programmers. So what's that mean to younger programmers, say, in their twenties? I believe that it means that programming is not a long term career path. As programmers become older, they fall prey to the niceties of management (carpets, big desk, a door that closes, etc.). And as a result, fewer and fewer programmers have gray hair. Maybe a lot of managers do but few programmers do. I'm a lucky one. I continue to program. And I'm old! But I think I bring a far ranging experience to the table. I am cautioning young programmers to beware. Although you may think it is, programming is not a long term career.
The reason you don't see 'old' programmers is because programming itself isn't really that old.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind
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Careful, Pete's got feelings you know! I wouldn't mind a smidgen of Bill's cash either....
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AFAIK Pete's 'feeling' are what got him the restraining order in the first place.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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The reason you don't see 'old' programmers is because programming itself isn't really that old.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind
The Fortran language launched in 1956. IBM-RPG was released in 1959. The COBOL specification was laid down in 1959. BASIC came in 1964 C dates from 1969 C++ followed in 1979 Java was released in 1995 That's a real new profession!
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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We have three programmers, one in his early fifties, one in his forties, and the youngest in his thirties. I do T-SQL programming and am in my fifties. That being said, my next job will most likely be a greeter at Walmart! :)
djj55 wrote:
I do T-SQL programming and am in my fifties.
That's because SQL is an old person's language. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
The Fortran language launched in 1956. IBM-RPG was released in 1959. The COBOL specification was laid down in 1959. BASIC came in 1964 C dates from 1969 C++ followed in 1979 Java was released in 1995 That's a real new profession!
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
And don't forget ALGOL 60 in 1960. That was my first language but, of course, I started young. We did ALGOL in school and Fortran in college. But what do these young people know about the old days... :laugh:
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
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I don't think anyone in my family has lived to 92 so I'm past the halfway point! :) 'course if I live to 92 I'll still be working ... the ex made sure of that! :doh:
The environment that nurtures creative programmers kills management and marketing types - and vice versa. - Orson Scott Card
Joe Simes wrote:
'course if I live to 92 I'll still be working ... the ex made sure of that!
Only one ex? You're smarter than I am I guess. I've got three - plus an ex-live-in who proved there was no fool like an old fool. I may have to work until you're 92, too. :omg:
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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The reason you don't see 'old' programmers is because programming itself isn't really that old.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind
FTFY :-D The reason you don't see 'old' VB programmers is because VB programming itself isn't really that old. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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And don't forget ALGOL 60 in 1960. That was my first language but, of course, I started young. We did ALGOL in school and Fortran in college. But what do these young people know about the old days... :laugh:
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
In my defense, I listed the languages I have used. For some reason I forgot .net, ho hum.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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FTFY :-D The reason you don't see 'old' VB programmers is because VB programming itself isn't really that old. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
VB programming itself isn't really that old.
20 years is a fair wack older than .net.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
VB programming itself isn't really that old.
20 years is a fair wack older than .net.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Fer sure! But programming started a wee bit before .NET hit the scene. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Fer sure! But programming started a wee bit before .NET hit the scene. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
?? You didn't read my earlier comment then. Why critique VB by pretending it's not very mature, when the MS posterboy languages are a lot younger?
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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?? You didn't read my earlier comment then. Why critique VB by pretending it's not very mature, when the MS posterboy languages are a lot younger?
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Wasn't criticizing VB (or VB devs). Just trying to inject some humor into the thread. Heck, Android (admittedly a framework, not a programming language) is younger than .NET and (imho) rocks hugely. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Albert Holguin wrote:
older programmers... you know, the ones that look like serial killers...
Hey I resemble that remark! :) Seriously I'm 46 and I have no aspirations to management so I guess I'm stuck as the greybeard programmer! My boss hates that the only thing I put on my IDP (Individual Development Plan) is Mo' Money!! :-D
The environment that nurtures creative programmers kills management and marketing types - and vice versa. - Orson Scott Card
Joe Simes wrote:
Hey I resemble that remark!
:~:~:~
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I've been doing it since 1980, and actually being paid to do it since 1982. I imagine I'll be doing this until I'm 70 or so. My dad had been an electrician for about 60 years, and only recently had to quit wehen he had a stroke last September. Most programmers are mmoved into management positions between 35 and 40, and that's why you don't see that many old programmers. Me? I hate people, so management isn't exactly the right career path for me. For the most part, people leave me alone and let me write code, and I'm fine with that.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Isn't hating people a pre-requisite for this line of work? ...if it isn't then it sure should be!
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I love programming but I think the context is important. If I had to choose between writing javascript for the next 30 years or managing others to do that, I'm choosing management.
Torture vs Management...... what kind of torture did you have in mind? :laugh:
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I've been doing it since 1980, and actually being paid to do it since 1982. I imagine I'll be doing this until I'm 70 or so. My dad had been an electrician for about 60 years, and only recently had to quit wehen he had a stroke last September. Most programmers are mmoved into management positions between 35 and 40, and that's why you don't see that many old programmers. Me? I hate people, so management isn't exactly the right career path for me. For the most part, people leave me alone and let me write code, and I'm fine with that.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Me? I hate people, so management isn't exactly the right career path for me
Same here. I'd merrily use them as range targets than trying to sell anything or explaining why the rookie programmers didn't finish their projects on time/budget. 28 and changed jobs 5 times, whenever my bosses want to turn me into management, I happily quit. Not a good thing if you think on Dilbert's Law of Promotions but well, what the hell, I'm happy with my coding, who hears the customers? :laugh:
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--either way, you are right." — Henry Ford "When I waste my time, I only use the best, Code Project...don't leave home without it." — Slacker007
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I've been doing it since 1980, and actually being paid to do it since 1982. I imagine I'll be doing this until I'm 70 or so. My dad had been an electrician for about 60 years, and only recently had to quit wehen he had a stroke last September. Most programmers are mmoved into management positions between 35 and 40, and that's why you don't see that many old programmers. Me? I hate people, so management isn't exactly the right career path for me. For the most part, people leave me alone and let me write code, and I'm fine with that.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I hate people ... For the most part, people leave me alone and let me write code, and I'm fine with that.
Seems to work for everyone. :-D
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
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I think it depends where you are, when I worked at an AFB there were a lot of older programmers... you know, the ones that look like serial killers... ;P :laugh:
I know of a situation which is quite the opposite. My girlfriend's father (almost 50 years old) went to management after programming on an AFB for quite some time. He's been there for 25+ years now, IIRC. And he says they don't really have any grey-beard programmers. :-P
djj55: Nice but may have a permission problem Pete O'Hanlon: He has my permission to run it.
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I know of a situation which is quite the opposite. My girlfriend's father (almost 50 years old) went to management after programming on an AFB for quite some time. He's been there for 25+ years now, IIRC. And he says they don't really have any grey-beard programmers. :-P
djj55: Nice but may have a permission problem Pete O'Hanlon: He has my permission to run it.
I saw lots of them... maybe they're undercover... :laugh: