Common sense previals...
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Oh I understand that, because I have difficulty pronouncing words that I have just heard, like Mansour, Dilip or Mehendra. <sarcasm>
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
...or Venkatanarasimharajuvaripeta?
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I, on occasion, have to ring an Indian call center. The phone is answered by a man who will say something like "Hello, My name is Frank, how can I help". Because of the accent I ask him if he is in India. He confirms that he is. I then ask him if his name really is Frank. He says no, but they are given western names to make the callers feel more comfortable. It is at this point I make the observation that he has begun the conversation by lying to me, so how can I trust anything he says? I know it is not 'Franks' fault, he is just a man trying to do an awful job (that is to say the job is awful, not that he is doing it badly), but the corporate attitude that you should lie to people is what is at fault.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
so how can I trust anything he says?
Well was he earnest? No wait, you already said he was Frank, didn't you?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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...or Venkatanarasimharajuvaripeta?
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I, on occasion, have to ring an Indian call center. The phone is answered by a man who will say something like "Hello, My name is Frank, how can I help". Because of the accent I ask him if he is in India. He confirms that he is. I then ask him if his name really is Frank. He says no, but they are given western names to make the callers feel more comfortable. It is at this point I make the observation that he has begun the conversation by lying to me, so how can I trust anything he says? I know it is not 'Franks' fault, he is just a man trying to do an awful job (that is to say the job is awful, not that he is doing it badly), but the corporate attitude that you should lie to people is what is at fault.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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Or Balasubramanyam[^]?
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At last, a business realises the folly of overseas call centres: Santander to bring India call centres back to UK[^]. About time: just spent a couple of months talking to the BT call centre in India: what a waste of time: eventually I found a contact in the UK and that got the issue resolved. Most of the call centres I've had the misfortune to deal with overseas end up as Support Prevention centres. It's not the fault of the employees: they're just trying to make a living like everyone else: it's the fault of the bosses who don't care about their cutsomers and show it by providing an incomprehensible non-service that ends up losing them customers. Further and from my own experience, the costs of anything overseas do not remain static or low: over time they rise until they either match or exceed what the local costs would be. That, I'm sure is the reason Santander are relocating. Sorry for the Friday rant. I feel better now. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
The west will (already is in the US) recognising the folly of offshoring work in general. While manufacturing might be better offshored, and Germany is a good example that it isnt, service and high skilled work is badly affected vis quality. (Not that cheap manufactured goods from abroad arent also crap, its just that we dont care)
============================== Nothing to say.
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I, on occasion, have to ring an Indian call center. The phone is answered by a man who will say something like "Hello, My name is Frank, how can I help". Because of the accent I ask him if he is in India. He confirms that he is. I then ask him if his name really is Frank. He says no, but they are given western names to make the callers feel more comfortable. It is at this point I make the observation that he has begun the conversation by lying to me, so how can I trust anything he says? I know it is not 'Franks' fault, he is just a man trying to do an awful job (that is to say the job is awful, not that he is doing it badly), but the corporate attitude that you should lie to people is what is at fault.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
I once had a woman tell me her name was 'Alba', she was uncomfortable when I said 'what an unusual name'. I assume she got it from Jessica Alba. What I love is when they say 'National Bank Melbourne' or whatever. Then why do you all have accents when I call ? I agree, it's not ever the fault of the person on the phone, they just want to make a living. But, it's really frustrating when you want to talk to some one who understands you, and the problem.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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At last, a business realises the folly of overseas call centres: Santander to bring India call centres back to UK[^]. About time: just spent a couple of months talking to the BT call centre in India: what a waste of time: eventually I found a contact in the UK and that got the issue resolved. Most of the call centres I've had the misfortune to deal with overseas end up as Support Prevention centres. It's not the fault of the employees: they're just trying to make a living like everyone else: it's the fault of the bosses who don't care about their cutsomers and show it by providing an incomprehensible non-service that ends up losing them customers. Further and from my own experience, the costs of anything overseas do not remain static or low: over time they rise until they either match or exceed what the local costs would be. That, I'm sure is the reason Santander are relocating. Sorry for the Friday rant. I feel better now. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Santander can fuck right off. I have a store card (I know, I know. But I get discounts now and then and as long as I clear it and don't incur the massive interest...) that has recently changed to them. For years I have been making the payments on the 21st of the month, with no problems. The last 4 or 5 months they have been charging me a late fee. I am arguing with them over this, as I have changed nothing, they say they have changed nothing, but every month now the late fee gets charged and I get a default notice sent.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
modified on Friday, July 8, 2011 5:20 AM
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The 'false' name is also to protect the person behind the phone. I don't consider it lying, the second good thing about a false name, especially if the calltaker is Indian or something, is that you can remember and pronounce the name.
V.
V. wrote:
The 'false' name is also to protect the person behind the phone.
Why should they feel the need for protection? I suspect that they use their real names in all other situations, even when face to face so by using nom-de-phones they do in fact exhibit racism.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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The west will (already is in the US) recognising the folly of offshoring work in general. While manufacturing might be better offshored, and Germany is a good example that it isnt, service and high skilled work is badly affected vis quality. (Not that cheap manufactured goods from abroad arent also crap, its just that we dont care)
============================== Nothing to say.
I've always thought that outsourcing is like exporting your skill base. 10 years down the line we have no one qualified to do the jobs so the costs from overseas go through the roof as they realise they have us with our pants around our ankles because of short term thinking.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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At last, a business realises the folly of overseas call centres: Santander to bring India call centres back to UK[^]. About time: just spent a couple of months talking to the BT call centre in India: what a waste of time: eventually I found a contact in the UK and that got the issue resolved. Most of the call centres I've had the misfortune to deal with overseas end up as Support Prevention centres. It's not the fault of the employees: they're just trying to make a living like everyone else: it's the fault of the bosses who don't care about their cutsomers and show it by providing an incomprehensible non-service that ends up losing them customers. Further and from my own experience, the costs of anything overseas do not remain static or low: over time they rise until they either match or exceed what the local costs would be. That, I'm sure is the reason Santander are relocating. Sorry for the Friday rant. I feel better now. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
digital man wrote:
it's the fault of the bosses who don't care about their cutsomers and show it by providing an incomprehensible non-service that ends up losing them customers.
Yeah, they don't care about the company either. Those "top managers" just cut costs all the way to the point the firm doesn't have any substance. They get elected by the shareholders to squeeze it out like a lemon, collect bonuses and throw it away like an empty soda can. It's all about making quick money nowadays, without any long term thinking. That mentality is poisoning our governments, businesses and the economy on every step of the social ladder. Just my humble opinion off course.
Giraffes are not real.
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V. wrote:
The 'false' name is also to protect the person behind the phone.
Why should they feel the need for protection? I suspect that they use their real names in all other situations, even when face to face so by using nom-de-phones they do in fact exhibit racism.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
Henry Minute wrote:
Why should they feel the need for protection?
I hate phone support just as much as the next guy, but you wouldn't believe what some callers are capable of. A friend of mine also worked for a short time on phone support. he has a very simple name, but still had to use a false name just in case the guy/girl on the phone starts threatening with something. Yes, the guy in India is a far way down, but I would think that Indian people would also call. [EDIT]And it probably helps the call taker take distance from the abuse as it is not against his personal "name"[\EDIT]
Henry Minute wrote:
they do in fact exhibit racism.
:zzz: no it is not, it is not discrimination, they do not refuse to tell the truth, nor are they refusing service for any etnic reason. You might not like the fact they lie about their name, but racism has nothing to do with it.
V.
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I've always thought that outsourcing is like exporting your skill base. 10 years down the line we have no one qualified to do the jobs so the costs from overseas go through the roof as they realise they have us with our pants around our ankles because of short term thinking.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
digital man wrote:
I've always thought that outsourcing is like exporting your skill base
Totally. A thought occured to me too. Universities. Foreign students. We, for the last 40 years, have been giving away almost free every single damn technological, medical, social, advance we in the west have made over the last five centuries. This was how Pakistan got nukes by the way, they sent a guy to study it in a Belgium uni (Leuven). Then he went to work for a Dutch firm, Urenko, for a bit. The plans he came up with were offered to Libya and Iraq. Sadam smelt a rat, didnt buy. Ghadaffi shat himself aparently. Thinking if he had nukes, the west would attack in about 3 phento seconds. As it is we are atacking him anyway, and after a few student riots at that, so he was right to be paranoid.
digital man wrote:
the costs from overseas go through the roof as they realise they have us with our pants around our ankles because of short term thinking.
Need I mention Chinese rare earths? :) An example of exactly what you are saying. HAving cripled our business, and monopolising the market, they ramp the prices up.
============================== Nothing to say.
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I certainly would not bow down to him... I think even Chuck Norris would not be safe with his beard.. Ok - I know the above is probably only comprehensible to Buddhists or those who have studied North Indian religious history...
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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The west will (already is in the US) recognising the folly of offshoring work in general. While manufacturing might be better offshored, and Germany is a good example that it isnt, service and high skilled work is badly affected vis quality. (Not that cheap manufactured goods from abroad arent also crap, its just that we dont care)
============================== Nothing to say.
Eric__V wrote:
While manufacturing might be better offshored
At the rate wages are rising in the most popular offshore areas even that's becoming debatable. The Economist is putting the total cost[0] of Chinese manufacturing for the US market as exceeding the cost of manufacturing in the US itself within 5 years at current trend rates. Coastal China obviously isn't the only offshore area; but the Chinese interior and most rivals are less attractive due to major infrastructure problems. [0] labor, amount of product in transit, loss of agility due to long supply chain, cultural differences, etc.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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At last, a business realises the folly of overseas call centres: Santander to bring India call centres back to UK[^]. About time: just spent a couple of months talking to the BT call centre in India: what a waste of time: eventually I found a contact in the UK and that got the issue resolved. Most of the call centres I've had the misfortune to deal with overseas end up as Support Prevention centres. It's not the fault of the employees: they're just trying to make a living like everyone else: it's the fault of the bosses who don't care about their cutsomers and show it by providing an incomprehensible non-service that ends up losing them customers. Further and from my own experience, the costs of anything overseas do not remain static or low: over time they rise until they either match or exceed what the local costs would be. That, I'm sure is the reason Santander are relocating. Sorry for the Friday rant. I feel better now. :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I recently tried to go through tech support for a hardware supplier we use. After 'Bangalore Bob' (he insisted his name was Bob) consistently failed to listen to my questions and provided meaningless scripted answers, I gave up on him. Instead, I compiled a list of the company's public e-mail addresses (sales, marketing, and so on). I sent a message to all of them, explaining the poor results of my tech support contact. The message also stated we would be switching to one of their competitors unless I spoke with a real engineer in two working days. This wasn't an empty threat, since this was hardware for a new product and was still open for alternatives. The next day I received a phone call from a salesman apologizing for the tech support confusion. He gave me a contact number for one of their engineers, who helped resolve my issues. Ironically, the salesman was based in the U.K. (I'm in the U.S.).
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I, on occasion, have to ring an Indian call center. The phone is answered by a man who will say something like "Hello, My name is Frank, how can I help". Because of the accent I ask him if he is in India. He confirms that he is. I then ask him if his name really is Frank. He says no, but they are given western names to make the callers feel more comfortable. It is at this point I make the observation that he has begun the conversation by lying to me, so how can I trust anything he says? I know it is not 'Franks' fault, he is just a man trying to do an awful job (that is to say the job is awful, not that he is doing it badly), but the corporate attitude that you should lie to people is what is at fault.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Did you read about the call centers in a link in today's CP Daily News? My favorite part is toward the bottom of page three. (http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/05/indian-call-center-americanization?page=3) :laugh:
We were waiting, We were watching. Yes we knew it all along. You were wrong. My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
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Eric__V wrote:
While manufacturing might be better offshored
At the rate wages are rising in the most popular offshore areas even that's becoming debatable. The Economist is putting the total cost[0] of Chinese manufacturing for the US market as exceeding the cost of manufacturing in the US itself within 5 years at current trend rates. Coastal China obviously isn't the only offshore area; but the Chinese interior and most rivals are less attractive due to major infrastructure problems. [0] labor, amount of product in transit, loss of agility due to long supply chain, cultural differences, etc.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
That is quick. Mind you we saw this with south Korea. It was nowheresville back in the 80s. Loads of manufacturing went there from Japan. A few years later they were striking for higher wages. And look at Japan now. Probably exactly where the US and UK are heading.
============================== Nothing to say.