Have you ever got this feeling
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...that you are not being allowed to think freely? Its this system. It seems to get a hold of you and then strangle you. (I don't know if its my region or the world in its entirety). Aaargh....almost can't take it anymore.
Too much of heaven can bring you underground, Heaven can always turn around, Too much of heaven, our life is all hell bound, Heaven, the kill that makes no sound
Abhinav S wrote:
...that you are not being allowed to think freely?
Yup! A friend of mine is writing a short paper to answer an interesting question that was asked at a workshop I went to recently. The question was "What was the origin of public education?" I found this question fascinating, especially since it was asked in a workshop where there were a lot of educators. So I asked my friend to do some research and put together a short paper on the question and the broader topic of the history of public education in the US. I'm even paying her. OMG, the things she is finding out about our education system here, how it was controlled from the get-go by industrialists that wanted education to do nothing more than spit out factory workers that were just smart enough to work on an assembly line but not think. One of the things she keeps encountering is the stuff they don't teach here in public schools. Did you know that Henry Ford, the revered father of the assembly line, etc., was "...awarded the Verdienstkreutz Deutscher Adler (the Grand Service Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle) on 30 July 1938, on Ford’s seventy-eighth birthday. This award was given to him by the German government in recognition of his pioneering work in the auto industry and in making the car available to the masses." (source)[^] and was anti-Semitic, saying "I know who caused the war—the German-Jewish bankers! I have the evidence here. Facts!" (same source). So, it's interesting to me, how our public (and private) education system here in the US doesn't teach these things. We are taught that Henry Ford is a hero, etc. How can we raise children to actually think for themselves? So, no wonder you feel like you aren't being allowed to think freely. And the above is just one example of dozens. Marc
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Knock it off we can't have that kind of thinking here. :)
:laugh: But honestly, this particular section of the web is perhaps the only place where one can occasionally do some sort of actual thinking.
Too much of heaven can bring you underground Heaven can always turn around Too much of heaven, our life is all hell bound Heaven, the kill that makes no sound
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OriginalGriff wrote:
that's what they want him to think.
Noooooooo.......
Too much of heaven can bring you underground Heaven can always turn around Too much of heaven, our life is all hell bound Heaven, the kill that makes no sound
:EvilLaughSmiley: I'll get you into a tinfoil hat yet...
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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Abhinav S wrote:
...that you are not being allowed to think freely?
Yup! A friend of mine is writing a short paper to answer an interesting question that was asked at a workshop I went to recently. The question was "What was the origin of public education?" I found this question fascinating, especially since it was asked in a workshop where there were a lot of educators. So I asked my friend to do some research and put together a short paper on the question and the broader topic of the history of public education in the US. I'm even paying her. OMG, the things she is finding out about our education system here, how it was controlled from the get-go by industrialists that wanted education to do nothing more than spit out factory workers that were just smart enough to work on an assembly line but not think. One of the things she keeps encountering is the stuff they don't teach here in public schools. Did you know that Henry Ford, the revered father of the assembly line, etc., was "...awarded the Verdienstkreutz Deutscher Adler (the Grand Service Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle) on 30 July 1938, on Ford’s seventy-eighth birthday. This award was given to him by the German government in recognition of his pioneering work in the auto industry and in making the car available to the masses." (source)[^] and was anti-Semitic, saying "I know who caused the war—the German-Jewish bankers! I have the evidence here. Facts!" (same source). So, it's interesting to me, how our public (and private) education system here in the US doesn't teach these things. We are taught that Henry Ford is a hero, etc. How can we raise children to actually think for themselves? So, no wonder you feel like you aren't being allowed to think freely. And the above is just one example of dozens. Marc
I found that a very interesting read. We often perceive things to be the way we are asked to and that is what sometimes bugs me.
Too much of heaven can bring you underground Heaven can always turn around Too much of heaven, our life is all hell bound Heaven, the kill that makes no sound
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:laugh: But honestly, this particular section of the web is perhaps the only place where one can occasionally do some sort of actual thinking.
Too much of heaven can bring you underground Heaven can always turn around Too much of heaven, our life is all hell bound Heaven, the kill that makes no sound
True, no matter what the subject there is someone here that has some expertise and can help or debate.
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Yes it has happened with me....and my answer is sledgehammer...Bang...Bang...Bang...Now any one else want to stop me :mad:
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CS2011 wrote:
Now any one else want to stop me
No they can't. Sledgehammer - yeah that's what I need.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it.
modified on Sunday, July 10, 2011 7:26 AM
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Anonimista wrote:
Congratulations, you are thinking freely!
No, that's what they want him to think...:~
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
Unless they want him to think they don't want him to think freely, in which case it gets complicated.
They have changed us.
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True, no matter what the subject there is someone here that has some expertise and can help or debate.
Mike Hankey wrote:
True, no matter what the subject there is someone here that has some expertise and can help or debate.
Tell that to Fat_Boy :laugh:
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Mike Hankey wrote:
True, no matter what the subject there is someone here that has some expertise and can help or debate.
Tell that to Fat_Boy :laugh:
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
It's only an average...some people think they know everything and some people know nothing. Me, the more I learn the more I know I don't know.
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...that you are not being allowed to think freely? Its this system. It seems to get a hold of you and then strangle you. (I don't know if its my region or the world in its entirety). Aaargh....almost can't take it anymore.
Too much of heaven can bring you underground, Heaven can always turn around, Too much of heaven, our life is all hell bound, Heaven, the kill that makes no sound
Hi Abhinav S, Yes, I get that feeling, and sometimes when I do, a memory of the wonderful Hindi tale (proverb ?, legend ?) of a 'topsy-turvy' world ruled by a mad King ... 'Andher nagree chauput Raja' ... pops into my head, accompanying a kind of visceral sensation, a 'spiritual dizziness,' if you will, that I am in some kind of theater where every actor believes they are either the director, scriptwriter, or a god ... and I'm an actor, too ... only I've forgotten my lines, and what my role is :) That feeling, like a 'Chinese finger-trap puzzle' seems to gather strength the more I resist it, yet I cannot 'will myself' into surrender. best, Bill
"Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning." C.S. Lewis
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Abhinav S wrote:
...that you are not being allowed to think freely?
Yup! A friend of mine is writing a short paper to answer an interesting question that was asked at a workshop I went to recently. The question was "What was the origin of public education?" I found this question fascinating, especially since it was asked in a workshop where there were a lot of educators. So I asked my friend to do some research and put together a short paper on the question and the broader topic of the history of public education in the US. I'm even paying her. OMG, the things she is finding out about our education system here, how it was controlled from the get-go by industrialists that wanted education to do nothing more than spit out factory workers that were just smart enough to work on an assembly line but not think. One of the things she keeps encountering is the stuff they don't teach here in public schools. Did you know that Henry Ford, the revered father of the assembly line, etc., was "...awarded the Verdienstkreutz Deutscher Adler (the Grand Service Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle) on 30 July 1938, on Ford’s seventy-eighth birthday. This award was given to him by the German government in recognition of his pioneering work in the auto industry and in making the car available to the masses." (source)[^] and was anti-Semitic, saying "I know who caused the war—the German-Jewish bankers! I have the evidence here. Facts!" (same source). So, it's interesting to me, how our public (and private) education system here in the US doesn't teach these things. We are taught that Henry Ford is a hero, etc. How can we raise children to actually think for themselves? So, no wonder you feel like you aren't being allowed to think freely. And the above is just one example of dozens. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
(same source).
Your quote is never sourced by your source, but simply offered as something somebody heard Ford said privately. That's hardly a recommendation for repeating it as if it was documented fact. And while it is definitely true that a hundred years ago anti-antisemitism was rampant in the United States and in most of the West for that matter, to single out one man from that time and judge him by the standards of the 21st century (not that we don't have plenty of antisemitics running around the country - some of them in positions of power) in order to prove a point about the guy who said that the secret to success was to make the best product possible and sell it at the lowest price possible while paying the workers who made it the best possible wage, seems a bit of a reach. Not that I disagree with your point about public education. It ought to be abolished and a series of vouchers offered to parents that would allow them to send their kids to whatever school they chose that met certain basic standards (ones, that I'm not sure a lot of our schools of today can meet.)
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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It's only an average...some people think they know everything and some people know nothing. Me, the more I learn the more I know I don't know.
Mike Hankey wrote:
Me, the more I learn the more I know I don't know.
Then you have learned the most important thing of all, methinks. Most people know so little they don't even know what they don't know.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Hi Abhinav S, Yes, I get that feeling, and sometimes when I do, a memory of the wonderful Hindi tale (proverb ?, legend ?) of a 'topsy-turvy' world ruled by a mad King ... 'Andher nagree chauput Raja' ... pops into my head, accompanying a kind of visceral sensation, a 'spiritual dizziness,' if you will, that I am in some kind of theater where every actor believes they are either the director, scriptwriter, or a god ... and I'm an actor, too ... only I've forgotten my lines, and what my role is :) That feeling, like a 'Chinese finger-trap puzzle' seems to gather strength the more I resist it, yet I cannot 'will myself' into surrender. best, Bill
"Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning." C.S. Lewis
BillWoodruff wrote:
and I'm an actor, too ... only I've forgotten my lines, and what my role i
Sort of like a scary dream. :)
Too much of heaven can bring you underground Heaven can always turn around Too much of heaven, our life is all hell bound Heaven, the kill that makes no sound
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Abhinav S wrote:
...that you are not being allowed to think freely?
Yup! A friend of mine is writing a short paper to answer an interesting question that was asked at a workshop I went to recently. The question was "What was the origin of public education?" I found this question fascinating, especially since it was asked in a workshop where there were a lot of educators. So I asked my friend to do some research and put together a short paper on the question and the broader topic of the history of public education in the US. I'm even paying her. OMG, the things she is finding out about our education system here, how it was controlled from the get-go by industrialists that wanted education to do nothing more than spit out factory workers that were just smart enough to work on an assembly line but not think. One of the things she keeps encountering is the stuff they don't teach here in public schools. Did you know that Henry Ford, the revered father of the assembly line, etc., was "...awarded the Verdienstkreutz Deutscher Adler (the Grand Service Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle) on 30 July 1938, on Ford’s seventy-eighth birthday. This award was given to him by the German government in recognition of his pioneering work in the auto industry and in making the car available to the masses." (source)[^] and was anti-Semitic, saying "I know who caused the war—the German-Jewish bankers! I have the evidence here. Facts!" (same source). So, it's interesting to me, how our public (and private) education system here in the US doesn't teach these things. We are taught that Henry Ford is a hero, etc. How can we raise children to actually think for themselves? So, no wonder you feel like you aren't being allowed to think freely. And the above is just one example of dozens. Marc
I believe Eugen Weber indicated that the education system in western europe was primarily an effort to nationalize the peasant viewpoint. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Weber[^] This was in a fairly late episode of the Western Tradition. You might point your friend to this and see if it adds anything useful to the discussion. I believe one can watch episodes of the Western Tradition at Learner.org. I really liked Eugen Weber's take on things. Separately I'd heard that the purpose of (US) public education was to train young Irish kids how to show up somewhere at a scheduled time every morning. But I don't have a reference for that.
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