This pisses me off, lazy stupid dependent people [modified]
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Exactly. And of course type 2 diabetes is caused by a bad diet in the first place, notably sugar abuise.
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So how will a gastric band help him lose weight if his weight gain is caused not by over eating but by type 2 disbetes (or medcine). :) If what you say is true, whic it isnt, then you just argued against his operation. But lets get this clear, people get fat from eating too much. Period. The calories stored in fat dont materialise out of think air. They get into the body through the mouth. Oh, and its not a morality play, I am not Dave. :) It actually does piss me off.
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Eric__V wrote:
So how will a gastric band help him lose weight if his weight gain is caused not by over eating but by type 2 disbetes (or medcine). :)
If what you say is true, whic it isnt, then you just argued against his operation.Of course his weight gain was caused by over-eating. :rolleyes: Hence the doctor's evidence: After ultimately finding a satisfactory mode of insulin delivery ..., he developed a voracious appetite and began to gain weight as a result of overeating. After trying, unsuccessfully, to lose weight through diet and other conservative interventions, ... consultants advised that laparascopic gastric bypass ... provided the best chance of improvement to his health. So, the hospital's own consultants agreed with his doctor on the need to operate. Back to Med. School for you.
Eric__V wrote:
Fat c***. Get off your fat dependent lazy arse and do something about it yourself!
You have to admire the hack's ability to tailor the story so as to trigger the required knee jerk response. Played you like a fiddle.
ict558 - a Coward and a Fool. Dalek Dave & Hokum (Therefore it must be so, alas.)
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Eric__V wrote:
But that he should take the place of someone more deserving in the theater?
Someone who is born with a pre-disposition to diabetes, whose insulin treatment gives him a voracious appitite that diet and drugs cannot control is less worthy of treatment?
Eric__V wrote:
Also, where do you place personal responsibility in all this?
The eugenicist who failed to abort this defective individual.
Eric__V wrote:
One of the problems the west has is lack of personal responsibility.
I blame Ayn Rand. With a role model like her, of course we are going to rely on the State for Health Care and Social Security.
ict558 - a Coward and a Fool. Dalek Dave & Hokum (Therefore it must be so, alas.)
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Eric__V wrote:
type 2 diabetes is caused by a bad diet in the first place
Usually, but, according to the medics, not in this case.
ict558 - a Coward and a Fool. Dalek Dave & Hokum (Therefore it must be so, alas.)
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Eric__V wrote:
So how will a gastric band help him lose weight if his weight gain is caused not by over eating but by type 2 disbetes (or medcine). :)
If what you say is true, whic it isnt, then you just argued against his operation.Of course his weight gain was caused by over-eating. :rolleyes: Hence the doctor's evidence: After ultimately finding a satisfactory mode of insulin delivery ..., he developed a voracious appetite and began to gain weight as a result of overeating. After trying, unsuccessfully, to lose weight through diet and other conservative interventions, ... consultants advised that laparascopic gastric bypass ... provided the best chance of improvement to his health. So, the hospital's own consultants agreed with his doctor on the need to operate. Back to Med. School for you.
Eric__V wrote:
Fat c***. Get off your fat dependent lazy arse and do something about it yourself!
You have to admire the hack's ability to tailor the story so as to trigger the required knee jerk response. Played you like a fiddle.
ict558 - a Coward and a Fool. Dalek Dave & Hokum (Therefore it must be so, alas.)
ict558 wrote:
You have to admire the hack's ability to tailor the story so as to trigger the required knee jerk response. Played you like a fiddle.
Wrong. I have been following this guys story for many months. For example, he comes fomr Portsmouth. Somethign I learned the first time this came to light. Also, he has started intenetionally getting fatter in order to pass the BMI limit set down by his local health authority in order to qualify for the gastric band. See, I know rather more about this story than you assume. :)
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Eric__V wrote:
So this fat chap eats so much, he develops type 2 diabetes
'This fat chap' developed diabetes as a result of congenital problems. After ultimately finding a satisfactory mode of insulin delivery ..., he developed a voracious appetite and began to gain weight as a result of overeating.
Eric__V wrote:
And all he has to do is eat less and get some exercise.
After trying, unsuccessfully, to lose weight through diet and other conservative interventions, ... consultants advised that laparascopic gastric bypass ... provided the best chance of improvement to his health.
Eric__V wrote:
Fat c***. Get off your fat dependent lazy arse and do something about it yourself!
Now here, in a way, I agree. Given a year to live, I would have the surgery privately (well worth £7,000 with full aftercare), and fight to recover the cost on recovering my health.
Eric__V wrote:
So if he wins he gets the surgery time and not someone else with say, kidney disease, a bad hip, or someother necessary operation.
My hips have probably been damaged by my being a 12 stone distance runner for many years. If I get a 'bad hip' in old age, should I get surgery time? I brought it on myself, after all. By fighting his claim, the Primary Care Trust has diverted large sums of NHS dosh into the pockets of lawyers, which could otherwise be spent on necessary operations. All to avoid a procedure that the Death Panel (or The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence) recommends for adults with a BMI of 40 or more (or a BMI between 35 and 40 where there are significant co-morbidities). As 'the Fat c***' has a BMI of 43 and an extensive range of co-morbidities including hypertension, obstructive sleep apnoea, and renal impairment, he qualifies on both counts.
ict558 - a Coward and a Fool. Dalek Dave & Hokum (Therefore it must be so, alas.)
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Eric__V wrote:
So this fat chap eats so much, he develops type 2 diabetes, and needs insulin.
Its a well known fact and easily looked up if you are ignorant of the facts and still want to pontificate, that insulin can make you hungry all the time, and thus trigger a weight gain. According to what I found out on line, this is pretty much what happened to this guy. So he wasn't fat until he started using the medicine prescribed because he'd developed type 2 diabetes. Perhaps, if he'd had better care or more monitoring from the health care system, he wouldn't be in the shape he's in. But of course, follow-up costs money.
Eric__V wrote:
So if he wins he gets the surgery time and not someone else with say, kidney disease, a bad hip, or someother necessary operation.
If the UK is really rationing health care that tightly, it's time to reconsider universal health care.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Sure, if you take too much it will kill blood sugar and give you a raging hunger. Question is, why put that much insulin in your body? After all, it is the diabetic who controls it.
Oakman wrote:
So he wasn't fat until he started using the medicine prescribed because he'd developed type 2 diabetes
You get type 2 diabetes from bad diet. (Unless some accident causes the pancreas to fail). Did you know though that this gut has been intentionally eating to get fat in order to pass the BMI limit set by his local health authority in order to qualify for the gastric band op?
============================== Nothing to say.
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Sure, if you take too much it will kill blood sugar and give you a raging hunger. Question is, why put that much insulin in your body? After all, it is the diabetic who controls it.
Oakman wrote:
So he wasn't fat until he started using the medicine prescribed because he'd developed type 2 diabetes
You get type 2 diabetes from bad diet. (Unless some accident causes the pancreas to fail). Did you know though that this gut has been intentionally eating to get fat in order to pass the BMI limit set by his local health authority in order to qualify for the gastric band op?
============================== Nothing to say.
Eric__V wrote:
Question is, why put that much insulin in your body? After all, it is the diabetic who controls it.
Not if, for instance, it was a pump. Why don't you read some of the readily available information about this case rather than simply making up stories about it?
Eric__V wrote:
You get type 2 diabetes from bad diet.
You get type 2 diabetes from lots of reasons, including high blood pressure, abnormal cholesterol levels, and heart disease
Eric__V wrote:
Did you know though that this gut has been intentionally eating to get fat in order to pass the BMI limit set by his local health authority in order to qualify for the gastric band op?
Anytime the rules say you have to be a 45 and you are a 44 and your doctor says, too bad you're not a 45 - what would you do?
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Eric__V wrote:
Question is, why put that much insulin in your body? After all, it is the diabetic who controls it.
Not if, for instance, it was a pump. Why don't you read some of the readily available information about this case rather than simply making up stories about it?
Eric__V wrote:
You get type 2 diabetes from bad diet.
You get type 2 diabetes from lots of reasons, including high blood pressure, abnormal cholesterol levels, and heart disease
Eric__V wrote:
Did you know though that this gut has been intentionally eating to get fat in order to pass the BMI limit set by his local health authority in order to qualify for the gastric band op?
Anytime the rules say you have to be a 45 and you are a 44 and your doctor says, too bad you're not a 45 - what would you do?
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Oakman wrote:
Not if, for instance, it was a pump
And pumps have controls no doubt.
Oakman wrote:
You get type 2 diabetes from lots of reasons, including high blood pressure, abnormal cholesterol levels, and heart disease
Cart and horse.
Oakman wrote:
Anytime the rules say you have to be a 45 and you are a 44 and your doctor says, too bad you're not a 45 - what would you do?
If he is capable of putting on weight through diet then he is capable of losing it through diet.
============================== Nothing to say.
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Oakman wrote:
Not if, for instance, it was a pump
And pumps have controls no doubt.
Oakman wrote:
You get type 2 diabetes from lots of reasons, including high blood pressure, abnormal cholesterol levels, and heart disease
Cart and horse.
Oakman wrote:
Anytime the rules say you have to be a 45 and you are a 44 and your doctor says, too bad you're not a 45 - what would you do?
If he is capable of putting on weight through diet then he is capable of losing it through diet.
============================== Nothing to say.
I understand that it is difficult for you to admit that you were talking out of the wrong orifice. But now it's time for me to sort my socks. You can have the last word if you need it.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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But that he should take the place of someone more deserving in the theater? Also, where do you place personal responsibility in all this? One of the problems the west has is lack of personal responsibility.
============================== Nothing to say.
Eric__V wrote:
Also, where do you place personal responsibility in all this?
On the person. It is not my place to decide whether he should get the medical procedures that he need based on whether or not I think he deserves it. He is in a system of universal health care coverage, so he deserves the care that he needs.
Eric__V wrote:
One of the problems the west has is lack of personal responsibility.
Where are you going with this? Should insurance companies - or the government, in this case - do a forensic workup on each case to determine if the injury or illness can be blamed on the patient and deny converage on that basis?
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So how will a gastric band help him lose weight if his weight gain is caused not by over eating but by type 2 disbetes (or medcine). :) If what you say is true, whic it isnt, then you just argued against his operation. But lets get this clear, people get fat from eating too much. Period. The calories stored in fat dont materialise out of think air. They get into the body through the mouth. Oh, and its not a morality play, I am not Dave. :) It actually does piss me off.
============================== Nothing to say.
Eric__V wrote:
It actually does piss me off.
Why? Because you don't think he deserves it? Based on newspaper reports and without any medical expertise on your part you've decided that his problems are of his own making and he doesn't derserve the procedure? He paid into the system through taxes, why should he not get the care he needs?
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Eric__V wrote:
Also, where do you place personal responsibility in all this?
On the person. It is not my place to decide whether he should get the medical procedures that he need based on whether or not I think he deserves it. He is in a system of universal health care coverage, so he deserves the care that he needs.
Eric__V wrote:
One of the problems the west has is lack of personal responsibility.
Where are you going with this? Should insurance companies - or the government, in this case - do a forensic workup on each case to determine if the injury or illness can be blamed on the patient and deny converage on that basis?
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Eric__V wrote:
It actually does piss me off.
Why? Because you don't think he deserves it? Based on newspaper reports and without any medical expertise on your part you've decided that his problems are of his own making and he doesn't derserve the procedure? He paid into the system through taxes, why should he not get the care he needs?
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I understand that it is difficult for you to admit that you were talking out of the wrong orifice. But now it's time for me to sort my socks. You can have the last word if you need it.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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He has type 2 diabetes, its bought on by bad diet. He wasnt born with diabetes, he caused it. Equally,by adapting his diet he can alleviate the symptoms.
============================== Nothing to say.
Eric__V wrote:
He has type 2 diabetes, it's brought on by bad diet. He wasn't born with diabetes, he caused it.
Silly me, of course there is no inherited disposition to type 2 diabetes. :rolleyes: We all come off the assembly line with identical metabolisms. One cause for all ...
Eric__V wrote:
Equally,by adapting his diet he can alleviate the symptoms.
... and one cure for all. Except, the medics stated that he couldn't.
ict558 - a Coward and a Fool. Dalek Dave & Hokum (Therefore it must be so, alas.)
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ict558 wrote:
You have to admire the hack's ability to tailor the story so as to trigger the required knee jerk response. Played you like a fiddle.
Wrong. I have been following this guys story for many months. For example, he comes fomr Portsmouth. Somethign I learned the first time this came to light. Also, he has started intenetionally getting fatter in order to pass the BMI limit set down by his local health authority in order to qualify for the gastric band. See, I know rather more about this story than you assume. :)
============================== Nothing to say.
Eric__V wrote:
Wrong.
No I'm not, I read the comments to the Telegraph's earlier story on this case. You've been cloned.
Eric__V wrote:
I have been following this guys story for many months. For example, he comes fomr Portsmouth. Somethign I learned the first time this came to light.
Portsmouth, you say? Well, that certainly shows the whole affair in a new light.
Eric__V wrote:
Also, he has started intenetionally getting fatter in order to pass the BMI limit set down by his local health authority in order to qualify for the gastric band.
And have you any proof of that? Links?
Eric__V wrote:
I know rather more about this story than you assume.
Mr. Bond.
ict558 - a Coward and a Fool. Dalek Dave & Hokum (Therefore it must be so, alas.)
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Thanks, you just confirmed what I always thought, exercise should be taken in moderate doses. :)
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Eric__V wrote:
you just confirmed what I always thought, exercise should be taken in moderate doses.
But I didn't run for exercise, I ran for enjoyment. So, if I get a 'bad hip' in old age, should I get surgery time?
ict558 - a Coward and a Fool. Dalek Dave & Hokum (Therefore it must be so, alas.)