Shout out to Oakman (Debt Ceiling)
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Raise the debt ceiling to deal with the immediate problem, then raise taxes and cut loopholes. Also, allow inflation to eat at long term debt. Cut foreign aid, cut military aid, cut military expenditure by not fighting all those wars, 10% on petrol and increase retirement age by 2 years.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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We already know that SS will not be able to pay full benefits in about 30 years. But SS has zero impact on current deficits and has added nothing to the debt.
I'm almost 30, and I learned in business school to not rely on social retirement programs in my lifetime, so what do you say to those of us, like myself, who will pay into it for 30+ years, and likely never benefit? It's just as unfair as raising the retirement age now. If the SS surplus helps us get out of debt, then I say do as you may with it.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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I'm almost 30, and I learned in business school to not rely on social retirement programs in my lifetime, so what do you say to those of us, like myself, who will pay into it for 30+ years, and likely never benefit? It's just as unfair as raising the retirement age now. If the SS surplus helps us get out of debt, then I say do as you may with it.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
wizardzz wrote:
and likely never benefit?
The only reason why you won't benefit is if you allow SS to be destroyed. The Republicans are working very hard to make that happen, so I cannot guarantee that it will be there when you retire. Best - though not perfect - defense is to vote Democratic.
wizardzz wrote:
If the SS surplus helps us get out of debt
How might I put this delicately - oh never mind that. Here's what I have to say about that - FUCK YOU! I've paid into SS all my life and I see no reason why that money should be stolen so that rich people can have tax cuts. If you want to balance the budget then you're going to have to pay higher taxes. I'm ready to. Recind the bush tax cuts.
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That all may stop the bleeding, but what about the open wound?
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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wizardzz wrote:
and likely never benefit?
The only reason why you won't benefit is if you allow SS to be destroyed. The Republicans are working very hard to make that happen, so I cannot guarantee that it will be there when you retire. Best - though not perfect - defense is to vote Democratic.
wizardzz wrote:
If the SS surplus helps us get out of debt
How might I put this delicately - oh never mind that. Here's what I have to say about that - FUCK YOU! I've paid into SS all my life and I see no reason why that money should be stolen so that rich people can have tax cuts. If you want to balance the budget then you're going to have to pay higher taxes. I'm ready to. Recind the bush tax cuts.
Majerus wrote:
The only reason why you won't benefit is if you allow SS to be destroyed. The Republicans are working very hard to make that happen, so I cannot guarantee that it will be there when you retire. Best - though not perfect - defense is to vote Democratic.
The faster it is destroyed the better. I don't think the government should be in the business of paying retirement funds. I'd rather have the option to opt out of SS and invest that elsewhere for myself, where I know it will be when I plan to retire.
Majerus wrote:
How might I put this delicately - oh never mind that. Here's what I have to say about that - f*** YOU! I've paid into SS all my life and I see no reason why that money should be stolen so that rich people can have tax cuts. If you want to balance the budget then you're going to have to pay higher taxes. I'm ready to. Recind the bush tax cuts.
Haha, well it's your generation that will rob my generation of social security, so fuck you, too. Boomers will break the social security money pyramid, or raise taxes so high as to burden every working person. I'll pay into it as long as you will, and likely at a hire rate in the future, but there's no chance I'll see a dime out of it.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Do you think we will make the "dead line"? Whether we do or not, do you think that we will come up with a medium to long term solution for dealing with our increasing debt?
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
People need to pray to God more.
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Majerus wrote:
The only reason why you won't benefit is if you allow SS to be destroyed. The Republicans are working very hard to make that happen, so I cannot guarantee that it will be there when you retire. Best - though not perfect - defense is to vote Democratic.
The faster it is destroyed the better. I don't think the government should be in the business of paying retirement funds. I'd rather have the option to opt out of SS and invest that elsewhere for myself, where I know it will be when I plan to retire.
Majerus wrote:
How might I put this delicately - oh never mind that. Here's what I have to say about that - f*** YOU! I've paid into SS all my life and I see no reason why that money should be stolen so that rich people can have tax cuts. If you want to balance the budget then you're going to have to pay higher taxes. I'm ready to. Recind the bush tax cuts.
Haha, well it's your generation that will rob my generation of social security, so fuck you, too. Boomers will break the social security money pyramid, or raise taxes so high as to burden every working person. I'll pay into it as long as you will, and likely at a hire rate in the future, but there's no chance I'll see a dime out of it.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
wizardzz wrote:
The faster it is destroyed the better.
If that is what you want then go for it. But don't blame this on selfish baby boomers. You have your own selfish agenda. If you want to end it - then you have to pay the price. Continue to pay into the system to meet the obligations already made, and then pay for your own retirement as well.
wizardzz wrote:
well it's your generation that will rob my generation
I'm not robbing anyone. We all made this bargain and if you want to renege on it, pay the penalty for doing so.
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wizardzz wrote:
The faster it is destroyed the better.
If that is what you want then go for it. But don't blame this on selfish baby boomers. You have your own selfish agenda. If you want to end it - then you have to pay the price. Continue to pay into the system to meet the obligations already made, and then pay for your own retirement as well.
wizardzz wrote:
well it's your generation that will rob my generation
I'm not robbing anyone. We all made this bargain and if you want to renege on it, pay the penalty for doing so.
Majerus wrote:
Continue to pay into the system to meet the obligations already made,
Majerus wrote:
I'm not robbing anyone. We all made this bargain and if you want to renege on it, pay the penalty for doing so.
What obligation, what bargain are you talking about? I, like many others my age, never agreed and would never agree to join a money pyramid. If I had the option to opt out of SS I would do so in a second. But I can't, so now I have to pay for your generation's retirement on top of my own.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Majerus wrote:
Continue to pay into the system to meet the obligations already made,
Majerus wrote:
I'm not robbing anyone. We all made this bargain and if you want to renege on it, pay the penalty for doing so.
What obligation, what bargain are you talking about? I, like many others my age, never agreed and would never agree to join a money pyramid. If I had the option to opt out of SS I would do so in a second. But I can't, so now I have to pay for your generation's retirement on top of my own.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
The bargain was made when SS was created. You agreed to it by being an american citizen. It's not a pyramid, because it is sustainable. You only have to pay for both if you chose to destroy the system. And if that is your wish, then that is cost you must pay.
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The bargain was made when SS was created. You agreed to it by being an american citizen. It's not a pyramid, because it is sustainable. You only have to pay for both if you chose to destroy the system. And if that is your wish, then that is cost you must pay.
As far as I'm concerned, I wasn't around to have a say in it when it was planned. As far as I'm concerned it was created by people without a complete understanding of population growth and economic theory. It may have served a purpose that was useful during the Depression, but it should have been strongly reconsidered after the 50's. It most definitely is a money pyramid. If you fail to see that, then I will discontinue our discussion.
Majerus wrote:
You agreed to it by being an american citizen.
This statement is rubbish. So by being an American citizen, I can't dissent from any system that was put into place before I was born? That idea itself is anti-American. If that were the golden rule, we would still own slaves and my mother would not be allowed to vote. Carry that idea forward, and I hope someday same sex couples will be married in the eyes of the feds. Should they stop fighting for this right, because they are citizens and must they accept a bargain that was created before their time? America is founded on the right to have an opinion and express one's view, no matter how unpopular. It does come back to bite us occasionally, but it would be hard to find an educated man that would argue against it.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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As far as I'm concerned, I wasn't around to have a say in it when it was planned. As far as I'm concerned it was created by people without a complete understanding of population growth and economic theory. It may have served a purpose that was useful during the Depression, but it should have been strongly reconsidered after the 50's. It most definitely is a money pyramid. If you fail to see that, then I will discontinue our discussion.
Majerus wrote:
You agreed to it by being an american citizen.
This statement is rubbish. So by being an American citizen, I can't dissent from any system that was put into place before I was born? That idea itself is anti-American. If that were the golden rule, we would still own slaves and my mother would not be allowed to vote. Carry that idea forward, and I hope someday same sex couples will be married in the eyes of the feds. Should they stop fighting for this right, because they are citizens and must they accept a bargain that was created before their time? America is founded on the right to have an opinion and express one's view, no matter how unpopular. It does come back to bite us occasionally, but it would be hard to find an educated man that would argue against it.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
wizardzz wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, I wasn't around to have a say in it when it was planned.
It doesn't matter. Neither was I.
wizardzz wrote:
As far as I'm concerned it was created by people without a complete understanding of population growth and economic theory.
And you are wrong. They understood it quite well and made their calculations based on very good knowledge.
wizardzz wrote:
It most definitely is a money pyramid. If you fail to see that, then I will discontinue our discussion.
Then it never was a discussion. If you can't handle disagreement, you really should pick up your marbles and go home.
wizardzz wrote:
So by being an American citizen, I can't dissent from any system that was put into place before I was born?
I never said that. You can dissent all you want - you can even change things. But don't pretend you aren't being - at the very least - selfish when you suggest looting SS to pay down the debt.
wizardzz wrote:
America is founded on the right to have an opinion and express one's view, no matter how unpopular. It does come back to bite us occasionally, but it would be hard to find an educated man that would argue against it.
You really went off the rails here. I've never suggested you can't have an opinion, I haven't suggested you can't voice it nor have I suggested you can't work to implement it.
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wizardzz wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, I wasn't around to have a say in it when it was planned.
It doesn't matter. Neither was I.
wizardzz wrote:
As far as I'm concerned it was created by people without a complete understanding of population growth and economic theory.
And you are wrong. They understood it quite well and made their calculations based on very good knowledge.
wizardzz wrote:
It most definitely is a money pyramid. If you fail to see that, then I will discontinue our discussion.
Then it never was a discussion. If you can't handle disagreement, you really should pick up your marbles and go home.
wizardzz wrote:
So by being an American citizen, I can't dissent from any system that was put into place before I was born?
I never said that. You can dissent all you want - you can even change things. But don't pretend you aren't being - at the very least - selfish when you suggest looting SS to pay down the debt.
wizardzz wrote:
America is founded on the right to have an opinion and express one's view, no matter how unpopular. It does come back to bite us occasionally, but it would be hard to find an educated man that would argue against it.
You really went off the rails here. I've never suggested you can't have an opinion, I haven't suggested you can't voice it nor have I suggested you can't work to implement it.
Majerus wrote:
They understood it quite well and made their calculations based on very good knowledge.
However, they were made before the Boomer generation was even conceived.
Majerus wrote:
You really went off the rails here. I've never suggested you can't have an opinion, I haven't suggested you can't voice it nor have I suggested you can't work to implement it.
You said stated, "You agreed to it by being an american citizen." I never agreed to SS, and by being an American citizen, I have in no way agreed to any previous legislation. My "going off the rails" was a response to this asinine statement.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Majerus wrote:
They understood it quite well and made their calculations based on very good knowledge.
However, they were made before the Boomer generation was even conceived.
Majerus wrote:
You really went off the rails here. I've never suggested you can't have an opinion, I haven't suggested you can't voice it nor have I suggested you can't work to implement it.
You said stated, "You agreed to it by being an american citizen." I never agreed to SS, and by being an American citizen, I have in no way agreed to any previous legislation. My "going off the rails" was a response to this asinine statement.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
wizardzz wrote:
However, they were made before the Boomer generation was even conceived.
True, as far as it goes, but that was addressed in the 80's and that fix is good for another 30 years.
wizardzz wrote:
I never agreed to SS, and by being an American citizen, I have in no way agreed to any previous legislation.
Actually you have. You've agreed to pay income taxes, you've agree to live under the constitution, you've agreed to an endless list of things by being born an american citizen. You can disagree, you can speak out, you can agitate for change. You can even disagree with me.
wizardzz wrote:
My "going off the rails" was a response to this asinine statement.
Yes, I know that - you copied my statement into you post. But your response was totally diconnected from what I had said.
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wizardzz wrote:
However, they were made before the Boomer generation was even conceived.
True, as far as it goes, but that was addressed in the 80's and that fix is good for another 30 years.
wizardzz wrote:
I never agreed to SS, and by being an American citizen, I have in no way agreed to any previous legislation.
Actually you have. You've agreed to pay income taxes, you've agree to live under the constitution, you've agreed to an endless list of things by being born an american citizen. You can disagree, you can speak out, you can agitate for change. You can even disagree with me.
wizardzz wrote:
My "going off the rails" was a response to this asinine statement.
Yes, I know that - you copied my statement into you post. But your response was totally diconnected from what I had said.
Majerus wrote:
You've agreed to pay income taxes, you've agree to live under the constitution
To some, including myself, these are mutually exclusive statements.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Do you think we will make the "dead line"? Whether we do or not, do you think that we will come up with a medium to long term solution for dealing with our increasing debt?
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
Slacker007 wrote:
Do you think we will make the "dead line"?
I would have said no a few days ago. Now I am beginning to think McConnell's brilliantly conceived and statesmanlike kicking of the can down the road might appeal to enough of the old-boy network of both parties to pass, even in the House. An y time our Congress can abdicate its responsibility and hide its head in the sand, it is unwise to think any other alternative will succeed.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Raise the ceiling and borrow more. Simples. :-D
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
borrow more
How's that working out for Greece?
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Raise the debt ceiling to deal with the immediate problem, then raise taxes and cut loopholes. Also, allow inflation to eat at long term debt. Cut foreign aid, cut military aid, cut military expenditure by not fighting all those wars, 10% on petrol and increase retirement age by 2 years.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
then raise taxes and cut loopholes.
As long as we continue to tax production rather than consumption, we are fucked. The reason our Congress will never adopt a Fair Tax[^] is because it treats everyone equally. Our government is all about playing favorites. That's why my brother-in-law who runs a small business pays 39% on his company profits while Jeffrey Immelt, friend of Obama and head of G.E., pays no corporate taxes at all. I am all in favor of eliminating loopholes, but most folks consider tax breaks only for people or organizations they don't approve of to be "loopholes." We need to eliminate the homeowners mortgage loophole, and the charitable organization loophole. We need to dump the oil loopholes and the green energy loopholes. We need to tax hedge-fund managers in exactly the same way that we take plumbers. We also need to tax farmers in exactly the same way as we do plumbers.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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wizardzz wrote:
and likely never benefit?
The only reason why you won't benefit is if you allow SS to be destroyed. The Republicans are working very hard to make that happen, so I cannot guarantee that it will be there when you retire. Best - though not perfect - defense is to vote Democratic.
wizardzz wrote:
If the SS surplus helps us get out of debt
How might I put this delicately - oh never mind that. Here's what I have to say about that - FUCK YOU! I've paid into SS all my life and I see no reason why that money should be stolen so that rich people can have tax cuts. If you want to balance the budget then you're going to have to pay higher taxes. I'm ready to. Recind the bush tax cuts.
Why exactly do you think that making some people pay a larger share of what they earn than other people is fairer than asking everyone to pay the same share? Why shouldn't the guy making $20K pay $2,000, if the guy making $200,000 is paying $20,000? I do understand that the 49 percent of American citizens who don't pay income tax thanks to their tax breaks are all in favor of raising taxes on the folks who are already looking at a tax rate, after tax breaks of around 35% of everything they make being paid to city, state and national governments, but how, exactly do you justify it? TANSTAAFL
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Why exactly do you think that making some people pay a larger share of what they earn than other people is fairer than asking everyone to pay the same share? Why shouldn't the guy making $20K pay $2,000, if the guy making $200,000 is paying $20,000? I do understand that the 49 percent of American citizens who don't pay income tax thanks to their tax breaks are all in favor of raising taxes on the folks who are already looking at a tax rate, after tax breaks of around 35% of everything they make being paid to city, state and national governments, but how, exactly do you justify it? TANSTAAFL
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.