Smart individuals
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It may not do much for a harmonious work atmosphere, but sometimes it just feels so good! I have stand up blazing rows with my MD sometimes, (because I will not put up with crap, and nor will I be intimidated), and then it all calms down and we are chums again, but you should see other peoples faces when we are going at it hammer and tong! :)
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
hammer and tong
Just the one tong? ;)
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Who's more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows the fool?
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
I pity the fool.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
the worst lines in any star wars film
Of course they aren't. They were until they introduced Jar Jar Binks.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
Just to make things better[^], forward to ~55 seconds.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Dalek Dave wrote:
hammer and tong
Just the one tong? ;)
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Hello Great People, Recently, we had a new hire in our team joined as a Sr. Software Eng (I am called the same). The management was very happy about the new join, they were thrilled and believed he was one of the smartest; and was smarter than most of us. The new guy is chess champ, won few programming contests etc. Yes, when you talk to him you can definitely say he was smart and he knew it too; all confident etc. Some of us were annoyed, some worried about all the hype/attention he was getting. Couple of months passed as the management is not happy with him. According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers. I happened to review his code (along with an sr architect) and his code is not as smart as he talks. I am sure that I am not a smart individual as my new colleague; I was curious why the management gave so much hype about him. Any comments?
"smarter than most of us" - that would kind of concern me(see the final line)... Being brilliant and being someone who can communicate with others are not necessarily connected - where I work we tend more towards hiring people who will get on with the team than hiring a savant. My experience is that it is easier to learn what one does not know technically than learn how to communicate... This sounds like a case of the managers congratulating themselves on how brilliant they are rather than appreciating people like you who keep them in a job...
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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Oddly, a Chinese friend of mine had never heard of Weng-Chiang.
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Hello Great People, Recently, we had a new hire in our team joined as a Sr. Software Eng (I am called the same). The management was very happy about the new join, they were thrilled and believed he was one of the smartest; and was smarter than most of us. The new guy is chess champ, won few programming contests etc. Yes, when you talk to him you can definitely say he was smart and he knew it too; all confident etc. Some of us were annoyed, some worried about all the hype/attention he was getting. Couple of months passed as the management is not happy with him. According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers. I happened to review his code (along with an sr architect) and his code is not as smart as he talks. I am sure that I am not a smart individual as my new colleague; I was curious why the management gave so much hype about him. Any comments?
Smartness (even if genuine) doesn't translate directly into being a good developer. You also need discipline, people skills and the ability to break down a problem into pieces of the right size – and yes, not get bored of the tasks like those you describe that most of us would rather pass on to someone else if we can.
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Sometimes people market themselves so well that they continue to be regarded as geniuses, despite all the mistakes they make. There's nothing you can do about it, and no good reason to 'compete' with a colleague. Keep doing the best you can, and working towards making sure your projects are delivered on time and to a good quality. If this guy really sucks that bad, they'll notice eventually.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Also, sometimes really smart chaps decide early on that they're too good to work like the rest of us... Or they're simply not as smart as they think they are. Funny this should come up twice today, an ex-colleague just sent me this link to a wiki page with reference to a mutual acquaintance who exhibits this tendency to a truly, quiveringly, frightening degree... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect[^] I think this calls for bacon.
Smokie, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. www.geticeberg.com http://melpadden.wordpress.com
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Hello Great People, Recently, we had a new hire in our team joined as a Sr. Software Eng (I am called the same). The management was very happy about the new join, they were thrilled and believed he was one of the smartest; and was smarter than most of us. The new guy is chess champ, won few programming contests etc. Yes, when you talk to him you can definitely say he was smart and he knew it too; all confident etc. Some of us were annoyed, some worried about all the hype/attention he was getting. Couple of months passed as the management is not happy with him. According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers. I happened to review his code (along with an sr architect) and his code is not as smart as he talks. I am sure that I am not a smart individual as my new colleague; I was curious why the management gave so much hype about him. Any comments?
People sell themselves and others believe them because either they don't have the time or the resources to debunk the other's stories, or because they are so desperate for someone like that person they are happy to be decieved. If the person truly is a big asset then no, you don't get them doing low-level stuff that cheaper developers can do - it's a waste of a salary. However, if you're paying them the big buck then you should expect big work from them and management should do a formal review with the employee and if he's all talk send him packing with no reference. Karma.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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"smarter than most of us" - that would kind of concern me(see the final line)... Being brilliant and being someone who can communicate with others are not necessarily connected - where I work we tend more towards hiring people who will get on with the team than hiring a savant. My experience is that it is easier to learn what one does not know technically than learn how to communicate... This sounds like a case of the managers congratulating themselves on how brilliant they are rather than appreciating people like you who keep them in a job...
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
Thanks. That was kind of soothing. I just want to share something. I am in the industry for 4 yours (its been 4 years I passed out of college) and my manger for 25 years, he would have seen people who are extremely smart and good team members. The team is relatively young now and he might be missing those kind of people. As a individual, I try to put my best efforts, learn from my mistakes, don't repeat them and always to work as team, work hard; by doing so, I hope I would be a better developer in future.
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Thanks. That was kind of soothing. I just want to share something. I am in the industry for 4 yours (its been 4 years I passed out of college) and my manger for 25 years, he would have seen people who are extremely smart and good team members. The team is relatively young now and he might be missing those kind of people. As a individual, I try to put my best efforts, learn from my mistakes, don't repeat them and always to work as team, work hard; by doing so, I hope I would be a better developer in future.
"As a individual, I try to put my best efforts, learn from my mistakes, don't repeat them and always to work as team, work hard; by doing so, I hope I would be a better developer in future." Keep that up and you will definitely become a very valuable developer I am sure. 4 years is not such a short time :) And just because someone has 21 years more experience than you does not mean you are wrong ;)
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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Hello Great People, Recently, we had a new hire in our team joined as a Sr. Software Eng (I am called the same). The management was very happy about the new join, they were thrilled and believed he was one of the smartest; and was smarter than most of us. The new guy is chess champ, won few programming contests etc. Yes, when you talk to him you can definitely say he was smart and he knew it too; all confident etc. Some of us were annoyed, some worried about all the hype/attention he was getting. Couple of months passed as the management is not happy with him. According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers. I happened to review his code (along with an sr architect) and his code is not as smart as he talks. I am sure that I am not a smart individual as my new colleague; I was curious why the management gave so much hype about him. Any comments?
draghu wrote:
According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers.
If he were really smart...he wouldn't have applied for a job that was so low level and beneath him.
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Hello Great People, Recently, we had a new hire in our team joined as a Sr. Software Eng (I am called the same). The management was very happy about the new join, they were thrilled and believed he was one of the smartest; and was smarter than most of us. The new guy is chess champ, won few programming contests etc. Yes, when you talk to him you can definitely say he was smart and he knew it too; all confident etc. Some of us were annoyed, some worried about all the hype/attention he was getting. Couple of months passed as the management is not happy with him. According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers. I happened to review his code (along with an sr architect) and his code is not as smart as he talks. I am sure that I am not a smart individual as my new colleague; I was curious why the management gave so much hype about him. Any comments?
Too many managers don't understand what talents are needed in their own organization, so they choose:
- People who are as vain and superficial as they are
- People with paper credentials, because it's safe and no one can criticize
- People who represent a compromise and consensus, which by definition is usually mediocre
Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Hello Great People, Recently, we had a new hire in our team joined as a Sr. Software Eng (I am called the same). The management was very happy about the new join, they were thrilled and believed he was one of the smartest; and was smarter than most of us. The new guy is chess champ, won few programming contests etc. Yes, when you talk to him you can definitely say he was smart and he knew it too; all confident etc. Some of us were annoyed, some worried about all the hype/attention he was getting. Couple of months passed as the management is not happy with him. According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers. I happened to review his code (along with an sr architect) and his code is not as smart as he talks. I am sure that I am not a smart individual as my new colleague; I was curious why the management gave so much hype about him. Any comments?
I'm in the same boat here. Well actually, only the guy that hired him thinks his smart, a group interview would have found different results. Guess what? If he was an expensive hire, he will be an expensive fire, hopefully they just get him to quit.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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There are many books teaching you to behavior like that. Is it part of American culture?
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Hello Great People, Recently, we had a new hire in our team joined as a Sr. Software Eng (I am called the same). The management was very happy about the new join, they were thrilled and believed he was one of the smartest; and was smarter than most of us. The new guy is chess champ, won few programming contests etc. Yes, when you talk to him you can definitely say he was smart and he knew it too; all confident etc. Some of us were annoyed, some worried about all the hype/attention he was getting. Couple of months passed as the management is not happy with him. According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers. I happened to review his code (along with an sr architect) and his code is not as smart as he talks. I am sure that I am not a smart individual as my new colleague; I was curious why the management gave so much hype about him. Any comments?
Working as a contractor, the interviewers would often wheel out their guru who would show off their intricate knowledge of the subject and ask specific questions from programming books they have read. To my mind they would be better concentrating on the competencies of a developer that would actually be valuable to them instead of reducing it to a competitive showdown. At work, I've seen many examples of code written by people who have added all kinds of unnecessary bells and whistles to further their knowledge or just because they like to play. Some devs try to be clever but don't comment or document adequately or at all to enable others to understand easily what is going on so they can modify the code. Being a smart-ass at interview is less useful than being able to approach the job with a certain amount of discipline, but that aspect of the job is often not covered.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Sometimes people market themselves so well that they continue to be regarded as geniuses, despite all the mistakes they make. There's nothing you can do about it, and no good reason to 'compete' with a colleague. Keep doing the best you can, and working towards making sure your projects are delivered on time and to a good quality. If this guy really sucks that bad, they'll notice eventually.
Alternately, he could just smash him in the mouth.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
Love it!
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Also, sometimes really smart chaps decide early on that they're too good to work like the rest of us... Or they're simply not as smart as they think they are. Funny this should come up twice today, an ex-colleague just sent me this link to a wiki page with reference to a mutual acquaintance who exhibits this tendency to a truly, quiveringly, frightening degree... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect[^] I think this calls for bacon.
Smokie, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. www.geticeberg.com http://melpadden.wordpress.com
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Hello Great People, Recently, we had a new hire in our team joined as a Sr. Software Eng (I am called the same). The management was very happy about the new join, they were thrilled and believed he was one of the smartest; and was smarter than most of us. The new guy is chess champ, won few programming contests etc. Yes, when you talk to him you can definitely say he was smart and he knew it too; all confident etc. Some of us were annoyed, some worried about all the hype/attention he was getting. Couple of months passed as the management is not happy with him. According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers. I happened to review his code (along with an sr architect) and his code is not as smart as he talks. I am sure that I am not a smart individual as my new colleague; I was curious why the management gave so much hype about him. Any comments?
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Hello Great People, Recently, we had a new hire in our team joined as a Sr. Software Eng (I am called the same). The management was very happy about the new join, they were thrilled and believed he was one of the smartest; and was smarter than most of us. The new guy is chess champ, won few programming contests etc. Yes, when you talk to him you can definitely say he was smart and he knew it too; all confident etc. Some of us were annoyed, some worried about all the hype/attention he was getting. Couple of months passed as the management is not happy with him. According to him, writing i18n bundles (for the error codes you add), reviewing test cases, updating sprint backlogs are very low level jobs and they should be assigned to jr developers. I happened to review his code (along with an sr architect) and his code is not as smart as he talks. I am sure that I am not a smart individual as my new colleague; I was curious why the management gave so much hype about him. Any comments?
humility. it is my belief that "smart" is relative. and, it is better to be humble; maintain and open mind at all times; use your brain like a sponge; and personally i like to think of my self as a student, rather than as a scientist and software engineer.
David