Anders Behring Breivik
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
Have you read Mein Kampf and Das Kapital from cover to cover?
Das Kapital, yes. Mein Kampf, I've skimmed. Either the translation is bad or the writing is atrocious or I was too distracted. I have also read the Unabomber's manifesto which, I am led to believe, means I have already read a goodly portion of Breivik's work. Now you tell me why you think that what I have read or not read has any pertinence to a discussion on whether or not such writings should be available.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Oakman wrote:
Now you tell me why you think that what I have read or not read has any pertinence to a discussion on whether or not such writings should be available.
I asked the question out of interest... :sigh:
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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Oakman wrote:
Now you tell me why you think that what I have read or not read has any pertinence to a discussion on whether or not such writings should be available.
I asked the question out of interest... :sigh:
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
GuyThiebaut wrote:
I asked the question out of interest
Fair enough. I just don't want you thinking I am a role model. ;)
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Thanks for replying. My argument is very much about specifics with regards to this man and what he did. You seem to be widening my specific argument to encompass a general view. Let me give an example - given your reasoning it would be fine for a drunk pilot to fly an aircraft as their flying certification is up-to-date. Whereas my line of argument would say irrespective of the pilot's credentials, he is drunk and therefore his right to fly should be revoked. To make this specific with regards to Galileo Galilei - I do not know the circumstances of his silencing so I cannot with certainty comment on it. I have already said that as a generality I agree with you at which point you contradicted me saying I was not agreeing with you. In this specific case I disagree. What is it about specifics and generalities that you find difficult to understand?
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
GuyThiebaut wrote:
What is it about specifics and generalities that you find difficult to understand?
I guess its my training in formal logic that's making it hard for me to understand your reasoning. All X is Y x is contained by X therefore x is Y There is no alternative. If x is not Y, then "All X is Y" becomes untrue. You prove this with your example about pilots. If you are right in saying that a drunken pilot should not fly, then saying "All pilots should be allowed to fly" cannot be true, just as if I am right in saying that no ideas should be suppressed, then your saying that some ideas should be suppressed contradicts my statement.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Completely true, Censureship is always bad. Better would be to protect the reader/viewer/listener with a warning about the content.
V.
V. wrote:
Completely true, Censureship is always bad.
If i started a campaign here in Codeproject calling for V. and his extended family to be exterminated because they believe Muslims should be allowed to live peacefully in the country, would that be OK with you? I guess not. Because this is effectively what ABB is doing, defending the killing of Norwegian Labour Party members because they have allowed Muslims into our country. You can say that everybody is entitled to express their political viewpoints, or ideology if you wish. I'm happy with that. Let him say that multiculturalism is bad. Let him say that it is ruining his country. No problem - he did so for several years on various forums, and nobody stopped him. But now it is impossible to isolate ABB's ideology from his actions. When he says that he is in a war to protect his country, it is all right to shut him up. Freedom of speech is important, but even that has limitations.
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V. wrote:
Completely true, Censureship is always bad.
If i started a campaign here in Codeproject calling for V. and his extended family to be exterminated because they believe Muslims should be allowed to live peacefully in the country, would that be OK with you? I guess not. Because this is effectively what ABB is doing, defending the killing of Norwegian Labour Party members because they have allowed Muslims into our country. You can say that everybody is entitled to express their political viewpoints, or ideology if you wish. I'm happy with that. Let him say that multiculturalism is bad. Let him say that it is ruining his country. No problem - he did so for several years on various forums, and nobody stopped him. But now it is impossible to isolate ABB's ideology from his actions. When he says that he is in a war to protect his country, it is all right to shut him up. Freedom of speech is important, but even that has limitations.
Haakon S. wrote:
When he says that he is in a war to protect his country, it is all right to shut him up.
Have you read his entire manifesto??? Some folks are now calling for the stamping out of all those horrid video games like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II, just because Breivik said he used it to "train."
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Haakon S. wrote:
When he says that he is in a war to protect his country, it is all right to shut him up.
Have you read his entire manifesto??? Some folks are now calling for the stamping out of all those horrid video games like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II, just because Breivik said he used it to "train."
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Oakman wrote:
Have you read his entire manifesto???
No.
Oakman wrote:
Some folks are now calling for the stamping out of all those horrid video games like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II, just because Breivik said he used it to "train."
Yes, I fully agree with that. It also turns out that he had potatoes with his lunch on 7/22. We should ban potatoes.
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Oakman wrote:
Have you read his entire manifesto???
No.
Oakman wrote:
Some folks are now calling for the stamping out of all those horrid video games like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II, just because Breivik said he used it to "train."
Yes, I fully agree with that. It also turns out that he had potatoes with his lunch on 7/22. We should ban potatoes.
Haakon S. wrote:
No.
want the link?
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Haakon S. wrote:
No.
want the link?
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Oakman wrote:
want the link?
Thank you, but I don't need it. My son has downloaded it. Frankly, I don't know why I should need to read any of it. I don't need his justification for his actions. The finer details just don't seem interesting, somehow.
Haakon S. wrote:
I don't need his justification for his actions. The finer details just don't seem interesting, somehow.
I agree - but I would never tell someone (other than my son before he was 18) they couldn't read it.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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V. wrote:
Completely true, Censureship is always bad.
If i started a campaign here in Codeproject calling for V. and his extended family to be exterminated because they believe Muslims should be allowed to live peacefully in the country, would that be OK with you? I guess not. Because this is effectively what ABB is doing, defending the killing of Norwegian Labour Party members because they have allowed Muslims into our country. You can say that everybody is entitled to express their political viewpoints, or ideology if you wish. I'm happy with that. Let him say that multiculturalism is bad. Let him say that it is ruining his country. No problem - he did so for several years on various forums, and nobody stopped him. But now it is impossible to isolate ABB's ideology from his actions. When he says that he is in a war to protect his country, it is all right to shut him up. Freedom of speech is important, but even that has limitations.
Haakon S. wrote:
If i started a campaign here in Codeproject calling for V. and his extended family to be exterminated because they believe Muslims should be allowed to live peacefully in the country, would that be OK with you?
I would'nt like it, but I would'nt cry about it. Furthermore you would notice that the CP community will disagree with your text and act accordingly. Censurship is 'hiding' and allows for growth and development in secret. If it was out in the open people would be able to watch out for those things deemed socially unexceptable. Of course there's a gray area, I agree. Such texts are not appropriate for kids eg. Censurship is a topic on which we could have endless discussions ;)
V.