Mark Duggan
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goblinTech wrote:
not as much of it is as legitimate as you might presume.
You know far more about the issue than I do, but I have read that blacks tend to get a worst deal than either your immigrants - especially those accorded a special status because of their religion - or your white 2nd generation+ population. Is that correct?
goblinTech wrote:
We have a serious issue with a (largely) nanny state driven culture of 'its all somebody elses fault', from parents absolving themselves of the responsibility of teaching children respect or anything else, (as it's the job of schools to do that), to people not being prepared to take the work that is available as they feel its beneath them. A good example of this is the fruit picking industry which you just can't get the unemployed natives.
'Tis amazing how equality before the law (a good idea) devolves into let's make everyone equal by taking wealth from those who earn it and using it to provide a good standard of living to those who don't. At a time when the U.S. founders were reacting most strongly to the concept of the aristocracy have special rules for themselves, they still tried to provide safe-guards against the republic turning into a democracy since they knew that every democracy, sooner or later, becomes a state where those without wealth or the willingness to work for it discover they can vote to have it given to them. (All that is necessary is to teach the poor and the nere-do-wells that they are victims.) But the founders failed. It is my estimation that neither in Britain or in America is there, any longer, a hope of turning back the tide.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Oakman wrote:
a state where those without wealth or the willingness to work for it discover they can vote to have it given to them
Yeah I see that happen all the time. If I see the unemployed 9.2% use their overwhelming majority to bully the electorate into giving them free LCD TV's one more time I'm gonna scream.
And sometimes when you're on, you're really f***ing on And your friends they sing along and they love you But the lows are so extreme that the good seems f***ing cheap And it teases you for weeks in its absence Rilo Kiley - "A Better Son/Daughter"
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Oakman wrote:
a state where those without wealth or the willingness to work for it discover they can vote to have it given to them
Yeah I see that happen all the time. If I see the unemployed 9.2% use their overwhelming majority to bully the electorate into giving them free LCD TV's one more time I'm gonna scream.
And sometimes when you're on, you're really f***ing on And your friends they sing along and they love you But the lows are so extreme that the good seems f***ing cheap And it teases you for weeks in its absence Rilo Kiley - "A Better Son/Daughter"
David Kentley wrote:
If I see the unemployed 9.2% use their overwhelming majority to bully the electorate into giving them free LCD TV's one more time I'm gonna scream.
This is neither the forum for it, nor have I the time to provide the economics background needed to argue this point rationally. Have a nice day.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
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David Kentley wrote:
If I see the unemployed 9.2% use their overwhelming majority to bully the electorate into giving them free LCD TV's one more time I'm gonna scream.
This is neither the forum for it, nor have I the time to provide the economics background needed to argue this point rationally. Have a nice day.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
Oakman wrote:
This is neither the forum for it, nor have I the time to provide the economics background needed to argue this point rationally.
Me neither, which is why I took a straw man potshot, like you did.
And sometimes when you're on, you're really f***ing on And your friends they sing along and they love you But the lows are so extreme that the good seems f***ing cheap And it teases you for weeks in its absence Rilo Kiley - "A Better Son/Daughter"
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Oakman wrote:
This is neither the forum for it, nor have I the time to provide the economics background needed to argue this point rationally.
Me neither, which is why I took a straw man potshot, like you did.
And sometimes when you're on, you're really f***ing on And your friends they sing along and they love you But the lows are so extreme that the good seems f***ing cheap And it teases you for weeks in its absence Rilo Kiley - "A Better Son/Daughter"
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goblinTech wrote:
not as much of it is as legitimate as you might presume.
You know far more about the issue than I do, but I have read that blacks tend to get a worst deal than either your immigrants - especially those accorded a special status because of their religion - or your white 2nd generation+ population. Is that correct?
goblinTech wrote:
We have a serious issue with a (largely) nanny state driven culture of 'its all somebody elses fault', from parents absolving themselves of the responsibility of teaching children respect or anything else, (as it's the job of schools to do that), to people not being prepared to take the work that is available as they feel its beneath them. A good example of this is the fruit picking industry which you just can't get the unemployed natives.
'Tis amazing how equality before the law (a good idea) devolves into let's make everyone equal by taking wealth from those who earn it and using it to provide a good standard of living to those who don't. At a time when the U.S. founders were reacting most strongly to the concept of the aristocracy have special rules for themselves, they still tried to provide safe-guards against the republic turning into a democracy since they knew that every democracy, sooner or later, becomes a state where those without wealth or the willingness to work for it discover they can vote to have it given to them. (All that is necessary is to teach the poor and the nere-do-wells that they are victims.) But the founders failed. It is my estimation that neither in Britain or in America is there, any longer, a hope of turning back the tide.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Oakman wrote:
every democracy, sooner or later, becomes a state where those without wealth or the willingness to work for it discover they can vote to have it given to them. ...It is my estimation that neither in Britain or in America is there, any longer, a hope of turning back the tide
I sure don't see it, but I sure do hope you are right. What I have seen is the rich waging a war against the rest of us and they are winning. Increased income inequality, the hollowing out of the middle class, a unrelenting attack against workers and a 2-tiered system of justice. I'm all for universal health care, a more generous Social Security, a strong minimum wage - in short a strong social safety net.
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If he really was involved in a gang, he deserved what he got. So what if he had a family? If one wishes to embrace violence, a bullet to the head should not be unexpected.
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No need for laws or courts or evidence or any of that other silly stuff. Extra judicial killing is the way to go, huh?
Majerus wrote:
No need for laws or courts or evidence or any of that other silly stuff. Extra judicial killing is the way to go, huh?
Boy, you really have a talent for picking out the parts that I didn't say. Of course I don't advocate that. However, if somebody becomes involved in violence, theft, torture, murder, extortion, drug-manufacture and whatever else, and then starts shooting at police officers, when they die it's a time for celebration, not for whingeing and talking about what a great guy he was.
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Majerus wrote:
No need for laws or courts or evidence or any of that other silly stuff. Extra judicial killing is the way to go, huh?
Boy, you really have a talent for picking out the parts that I didn't say. Of course I don't advocate that. However, if somebody becomes involved in violence, theft, torture, murder, extortion, drug-manufacture and whatever else, and then starts shooting at police officers, when they die it's a time for celebration, not for whingeing and talking about what a great guy he was.
No, what you said was if he was in a gang he should expect a bullet in the brain. You have now added "and then start shooting at police officers", but you did not say that at first, and the reports I've seen the police do not say he was firing at them. So, my original statement stands as correct.
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No, what you said was if he was in a gang he should expect a bullet in the brain. You have now added "and then start shooting at police officers", but you did not say that at first, and the reports I've seen the police do not say he was firing at them. So, my original statement stands as correct.
It has always been my understanding that he shot one of the police officers.
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It has always been my understanding that he shot one of the police officers.
It was initially reported that one of the police officers was injured, with the inference that he was shot, later reports suggested it may have been another police officer who shot him. No-one knows anything yet though.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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It was initially reported that one of the police officers was injured, with the inference that he was shot, later reports suggested it may have been another police officer who shot him. No-one knows anything yet though.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
Yeah, OK. I've stopped caring, to be honest.
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“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
Oakman wrote:
I was debating debate tactics on talk.origins back when your grandchildren were still in diapers!
And sometimes when you're on, you're really f***ing on And your friends they sing along and they love you But the lows are so extreme that the good seems f***ing cheap And it teases you for weeks in its absence Rilo Kiley - "A Better Son/Daughter"
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It was initially reported that one of the police officers was injured, with the inference that he was shot, later reports suggested it may have been another police officer who shot him. No-one knows anything yet though.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
It was initially reported that one of the police officers was injured, with the inference that he was shot, later reports suggested it may have been another police officer who shot him.
One policeman shot the other policeman? What did he do to deserve that? Forget to go to Greggs?
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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goblinTech wrote:
not as much of it is as legitimate as you might presume.
You know far more about the issue than I do, but I have read that blacks tend to get a worst deal than either your immigrants - especially those accorded a special status because of their religion - or your white 2nd generation+ population. Is that correct?
goblinTech wrote:
We have a serious issue with a (largely) nanny state driven culture of 'its all somebody elses fault', from parents absolving themselves of the responsibility of teaching children respect or anything else, (as it's the job of schools to do that), to people not being prepared to take the work that is available as they feel its beneath them. A good example of this is the fruit picking industry which you just can't get the unemployed natives.
'Tis amazing how equality before the law (a good idea) devolves into let's make everyone equal by taking wealth from those who earn it and using it to provide a good standard of living to those who don't. At a time when the U.S. founders were reacting most strongly to the concept of the aristocracy have special rules for themselves, they still tried to provide safe-guards against the republic turning into a democracy since they knew that every democracy, sooner or later, becomes a state where those without wealth or the willingness to work for it discover they can vote to have it given to them. (All that is necessary is to teach the poor and the nere-do-wells that they are victims.) But the founders failed. It is my estimation that neither in Britain or in America is there, any longer, a hope of turning back the tide.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Oakman wrote:
You know far more about the issue than I do, but I have read that blacks tend to get a worst deal than either your immigrants - especially those accorded a special status because of their religion - or your white 2nd generation+ population. Is that correct?
Hoestly? No, I (largely) don't think it's correct but there is a very recent history or racial abuse and stereotyping by the police in the area where these riots started and there is, therefore, a very special and very unhealthy between the largely black local community and the met, (Metropolitan Police). There are documented interviews with met officers from as recently as the eighties where the police quite hopenly state they just refer to the black community as 'ni**ers' with comments such as 'well, they've just come down from the trees so are just used to taking whatever they want'. It's never been a good situation, although having lived just around the corner from Broadwater Farm, (ironically in a street named Black Boy Lane), I never found the area to be particularly, stand out from other places I've lived, bad. Very recent immigrants do, regarding some social welfare elements, do get a better deal that 2+ generation nationals and the whole area of education and opportunity is murky at best given that certain ethnic groups tend to be polarised into poorer communities, with poorer schools etc.
Rhys "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees"
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Oakman wrote:
I was debating debate tactics on talk.origins back when your grandchildren were still in diapers!
And sometimes when you're on, you're really f***ing on And your friends they sing along and they love you But the lows are so extreme that the good seems f***ing cheap And it teases you for weeks in its absence Rilo Kiley - "A Better Son/Daughter"
David Kentley wrote:
I was debating debate tactics on talk.origins back when your grandchildren were still in diapers!
Oh wow, I am now so impressed. Talk.origins??? Gee, you should warn a guy.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
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Oakman wrote:
every democracy, sooner or later, becomes a state where those without wealth or the willingness to work for it discover they can vote to have it given to them. ...It is my estimation that neither in Britain or in America is there, any longer, a hope of turning back the tide
I sure don't see it, but I sure do hope you are right. What I have seen is the rich waging a war against the rest of us and they are winning. Increased income inequality, the hollowing out of the middle class, a unrelenting attack against workers and a 2-tiered system of justice. I'm all for universal health care, a more generous Social Security, a strong minimum wage - in short a strong social safety net.
Majerus wrote:
I'm all for universal health care, a more generous Social Security, a strong minimum wage - in short a strong social safety net.
The only problem with socialism is that sooner or later, you run out of other people's money. TANSTAAFL.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
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No need for laws or courts or evidence or any of that other silly stuff. Extra judicial killing is the way to go, huh?
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Majerus wrote:
I'm all for universal health care, a more generous Social Security, a strong minimum wage - in short a strong social safety net.
The only problem with socialism is that sooner or later, you run out of other people's money. TANSTAAFL.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
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Majerus wrote:
No free lunch is involved, so you response is meaningless.
It isn't? I guess I didn't get the memo about currency growing on trees. :sigh:
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein