Why be intolerant of dumb questions?
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AspDotNetDev wrote:
Everybody except for me has crap taste in movies
The worst movie I have ever seen is Apocalypse Now, it got rave reviews and was lauded as one of the best films of its day. Nothing ever happened, I kept waiting for something to happen, Marlon Brando muttered in the shadows and then it was the end of the film.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
The worst movie I have ever seen is Apocalypse Now, it got rave reviews and was lauded as one of the best films of its day. Nothing ever happened, I kept waiting for something to happen, Marlon Brando muttered in the shadows and then it was the end of the film.
I think that's because everyone is comparing it with the book they were forced to read in school. "The horror. The horror." can't compete against "I love the smell of napalm in the morning. ... Smelled like victory".
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
reduce the users points by 100 for a firs toffees, 500 for a second and 1000 subsequently
Just how negative is it possible to go before the hamsters remove the account? Imagine being removed for being sarcastic. I love sarcasm and enjoy using it, what I dislike is when you have to explain sarcasm b/c communication is the problem. This has almost cured me from using it in the forums. Oh and the occasional poke like this thread from CM
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I wouldn't necessarily remove the account due to negative postings - just remove their ability to answer questions. The aim (as I understand it) is to prevent 'answers' that offer no benefit other than being a sarcastic jibe at the OP e.g. "Google it you thickie" is unacceptable while "Google it you thickie - I did and it gave me this link[^] which does just what you asked" is acceptable
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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We all see the dumb questions posted on the site, and I've put in place mechanisms for dealing with them. You can: 1. vote to remove them (in the forums) or report them (in Quick Answers) 2. downvote them to let others know the question is substandard and move on 3. ignore it and move on Or the 4 option which is 4. Post a sarcastic or scathing reply This 4th option is favoured by some, but ultimately it's not even as helpful as option 3. All it does is upset the poster, or more often, is completely ignored and means we have a poor question and a nasty reply. If only they could get a room together and leave us alone... I've been pondering this and hence the question: Why be intolerant of dumb questions? 1. Because poorly phrased questions show laziness in even bothering to phrase it uefully? 2. Because poorly phrased questions show laziness in that not even a Google search was tried? 3. Because stupid people should stay away until they are no longer stupid? 4. Because I get stupid questions all day and I don't like seeing more? Now, given the premise that if someone can't be bothered to phrase a decent question, they probably won't be receptive to abuse and sarcasm, what's the best solution?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Apart from these reasons, there is also a genuine reason of not knowing English well enough to phrase out a meaningful question. A badly phrased question irritates the native English speakers here even though it is technically valid. So, the sarcastic replies are understandable but uncalled for.
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What's the best solution? What sort of a question is that? Can't you use google? Sarcasm aside, may I suggest a voting button, on answers only, to "mark answer as sarcastic and totally unhelpful" Any answer marked as such to remain visible but unvotable and only the author allowed to remove it, or mark it for appeal. Such a reply should reduce the users points by 100 for a firs toffees, 500 for a second and 1000 subsequently. An appealed answer, failing it's appeal, should have points deduction doubled. Possibly those losing more than 5000 points to have answering rights removed, which would be helpful for those not bothered about their pointy reputation. Kick 'em where it hurts.
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
I prefer sarcasm over 'politically correct'.
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
Apart from these reasons, there is also a genuine reason of not knowing English well enough to phrase out a meaningful question. A badly phrased question irritates the native English speakers here even though it is technically valid. So, the sarcastic replies are understandable but uncalled for.
I agree. Even a question that can be barely understood, shows that the OP is trying to learn, trying to find an answer. And questions that are phrased in text-speak can be answered very simply: We don't use text-speak on this site. If you would like our help, please show us respect by using normal English. There is never a justification for rude, sarcastic answers. If you don't like the question, just pass it by.
Best wishes, Hans
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We all see the dumb questions posted on the site, and I've put in place mechanisms for dealing with them. You can: 1. vote to remove them (in the forums) or report them (in Quick Answers) 2. downvote them to let others know the question is substandard and move on 3. ignore it and move on Or the 4 option which is 4. Post a sarcastic or scathing reply This 4th option is favoured by some, but ultimately it's not even as helpful as option 3. All it does is upset the poster, or more often, is completely ignored and means we have a poor question and a nasty reply. If only they could get a room together and leave us alone... I've been pondering this and hence the question: Why be intolerant of dumb questions? 1. Because poorly phrased questions show laziness in even bothering to phrase it uefully? 2. Because poorly phrased questions show laziness in that not even a Google search was tried? 3. Because stupid people should stay away until they are no longer stupid? 4. Because I get stupid questions all day and I don't like seeing more? Now, given the premise that if someone can't be bothered to phrase a decent question, they probably won't be receptive to abuse and sarcasm, what's the best solution?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
If you even care to read this reply to your thread... My take is that sarcastic and negative replies serve no purpose. We ARE here to help everyone that we can. I feel that there are many members here, especially higher ranking members, that are a little burnt out and have extremely big egos. They no longer help anyone really and are self serving. I would bet cash money that if you made the points go from 10 to 2 for answering questions then you would see a drastic decrease in answered questions. Most members who are not posting articles at all or at the current time, answer questions. It's how they build their reputation point base. I know you will most likely disagree with me here, you usually do, but I gave you post much thought this morning and this is how I feel.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
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Good questions, o great one. I think you may have left out a 5th possible answer to "why": 5. Elitism. We all fall into that trap sometimes. It can be difficult to avoid the snarky/nasty response when you think you're better than the original poster. I'm not sure there's a solution other than occasionally pointing out the issue. And you just did that. :-D
Marc A. Brown wrote:
Elitism.
Bingo was his name-o. Among others, this is my favorite reason and one that I think holds to the highest truth. We have some serious ego-maniacs at this site and it does get in the way of helping others. If I could give you more than 24 points, then I would.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
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For me, it has nothing to do with not being able to write code, but everything to do with the OP not being able to communicate with another human being. They have no clue how to ask a question and just assume that whoever reads it can read their mind to get all the context information. "My codes wont work" or "I get an error, what's the solution" (almost verbatim, not a summary example!) just doesn't cut it. OPs don't bother posting the error message and just assume that you can see their screen. They have no idea how to communicate an idea or something they see on screen at a basic level. If you ask them questions for context or even for just the error message and the code snippet that threw it they either get all pissy and suck their underwear up their own ass because you haven't given them an answer, or just ignore the responses entirely. I've been around here for quite a long time and I've watched the quality of questions just plummet with the rise of offshoring/outsourcing/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. Being able to communicate effectively comes down to a basic education problem and there's nothing we can do about that.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave KreskowiakDave Kreskowiak wrote:
Being able to communicate effectively comes down to a basic education problem and there's nothing we can do about that.
You are a mentor correct? If the OP looks legit but is not from your country and English is not their primary language, do you offer to help them in constructing proper questions? Do you edit their question so that it looks proper and the OP will see this and think "Ah! this is how my question should look.". A lot of the questions on this site are from turds; we all know this. However, a lot of bad questions are from good people. We all know how to tell the difference for the most part.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Being able to communicate effectively comes down to a basic education problem and there's nothing we can do about that.
You are a mentor correct? If the OP looks legit but is not from your country and English is not their primary language, do you offer to help them in constructing proper questions? Do you edit their question so that it looks proper and the OP will see this and think "Ah! this is how my question should look.". A lot of the questions on this site are from turds; we all know this. However, a lot of bad questions are from good people. We all know how to tell the difference for the most part.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
Slacker007 wrote:
do you offer to help them in constructing proper questions?
Yes. I ask them all the questions on all the details they are missing, and then get ignored or get the original post repeated. I'm not going to start conducting remedial English classes. How to ask a basic question is stuff they should be covering in their own native school classes.
Slacker007 wrote:
Do you edit their question so that it looks proper and the OP will see this and think "Ah! this is how my question should look.".
They NEVER think that. All they are interested in is the copy-n-paste solution to their problem. But, yes, there are times where I edit the question, IF there is enough detail for it to make sense. Then there are those times where there is nowhere near enough hints to figure out the OP was even talking about, so there's no point in editing the question and guessing.
Slacker007 wrote:
However, a lot of bad questions are from good people. We all know how to tell the difference for the most part.
Yep, I do too.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
I think this is kinda my fault. People see me do it, and they kinda get in line behind me. I make an effort to be good, but sometimes, I just can't help myself. I think it's just something you have to put up with Chris. I mean, there are over 8 million accounts here, and keeping everyone in line is a cross between herding cats and playing whack-a-mole. With the quality of the questions, I think it's understandable that someone could just have a minor break with sanity and post something he normally wouldn't. I think the only time you really need to worry about it is if someone becomes noticeably and habitually abusive. You only have another year to go before the world goes tits-up at the end of the Mayan calendar, so if I were you, I'd just kick back and enjoy the show. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I think this is kinda my fault. People see me do it, and they kinda get in line behind me. I make an effort to be good, but sometimes, I just can't help myself. I think it's just something you have to put up with Chris. I mean, there are over 8 million accounts here, and keeping everyone in line is a cross between herding cats and playing whack-a-mole. With the quality of the questions, I think it's understandable that someone could just have a minor break with sanity and post something he normally wouldn't. I think the only time you really need to worry about it is if someone becomes noticeably and habitually abusive. You only have another year to go before the world goes tits-up at the end of the Mayan calendar, so if I were you, I'd just kick back and enjoy the show. :)
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I think it's just something you have to put up with Chris.
I strongly disagree. I don't see that any of us need put up with it. 2 things I need to complete, and then the next project is tackling this issue in a very direct way. I think those who follow their points will be the most likely to see the merit of being polite, reporting, or walking away. Frankly, I'm sick of the arrogance I see displayed by people who don't have the courtesy to stop and think about others.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I think it's just something you have to put up with Chris.
I strongly disagree. I don't see that any of us need put up with it. 2 things I need to complete, and then the next project is tackling this issue in a very direct way. I think those who follow their points will be the most likely to see the merit of being polite, reporting, or walking away. Frankly, I'm sick of the arrogance I see displayed by people who don't have the courtesy to stop and think about others.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
2 things I need to complete, and then the next project is tackling this issue in a very direct way. I think those who follow their points will be the most likely to see the merit of being polite, reporting, or walking away.
Just add a Mark as Rude button to posts/responses :-) -25 points per hit. You'll quickly find that even those that "don't care about points" will turn into nice people, and then we'll see a few more magic words here like please, thank you, sorry, and coffee.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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I think 1 and 2 are the usual reasons, but I'm not sure I agree with your premise. I hope I don't get too sarcastic or scathing, but I don't have a good answer. It's really hard to tell from a single message on the interwebs whether someone is lazy, or trying to communicate in a language they don't speak very well, or just had a brain-fart.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
but I'm not sure I agree with your premise.
Which bit?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Chris Maunder wrote:
1. vote to remove them (in the forums) or report them (in Quick Answers)
Result: New thread in Site B&S, "y was my question deleted?"
Chris Maunder wrote:
2. downvote them to let others know the question is substandard and move on
Result: New thread in Site B&S, "sum1 is downvoting my questions!!!!11one"
Chris Maunder wrote:
3. ignore it and move on
Result: Same question posted again the next day, and the next, and the next, ad infinitum. Alternatively, a new thread in the lounge asking why everyone is ignoring him.
Chris Maunder wrote:
4. Post a sarcastic or scathing reply
Result: New thread in Site B&S, "ppl r being mean 2 me, pls delete my account" Ok, clearly I don't spend much time in Q&A, and it was actually quite difficult to do a proper imitation of "txtspk" above... My fingers are screaming at me, "No! That's not how to type! Go back and fix it!"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
y was my question deleted?
The Report system shows why a message was closed and by whom.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Are you grouping into this questions that are often written entirely well, because they are homework problems copied out of a textbook/exam/assignment?
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
Sure - why not. It's a homework question: why, truly, do we care? I know everyone wants everyone to work it out themselves, or even google it, but if we're going to encourage people to Google, why shouldn't we at least have the answer on CodeProject? For better or worse we are not going to stop people posting homework on the internet.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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For me, it has nothing to do with not being able to write code, but everything to do with the OP not being able to communicate with another human being. They have no clue how to ask a question and just assume that whoever reads it can read their mind to get all the context information. "My codes wont work" or "I get an error, what's the solution" (almost verbatim, not a summary example!) just doesn't cut it. OPs don't bother posting the error message and just assume that you can see their screen. They have no idea how to communicate an idea or something they see on screen at a basic level. If you ask them questions for context or even for just the error message and the code snippet that threw it they either get all pissy and suck their underwear up their own ass because you haven't given them an answer, or just ignore the responses entirely. I've been around here for quite a long time and I've watched the quality of questions just plummet with the rise of offshoring/outsourcing/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. Being able to communicate effectively comes down to a basic education problem and there's nothing we can do about that.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave KreskowiakThat's perfectly understandable. Does this provide a justification to be rude?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Why be intolerant of dumb questions?
Because this site has promoted that very thing for years here. Abusive, mocking, scornful replies that are way out of line have always been voted up, and cheered not just in the programming forums but also in the Lounge. I include myself in this list too although for at least 3 years now, I have made a very conscious effort to not only be tolerant of dumb questions but to go out of my way to aggressively respond to people who reply rudely (on occasions against some very popular members/personal friends). In the past it was not this big a problem, because the percentage or rather number of people asking dumb questions were too small to notice. But the site grew fast, too fast for some people, and now there are dozens of dumb questions asked every day so these people (many of them active CPians of many years) don't know any other way than to respond rudely. I am not sure how it's gratifying but I guess it gives them a kick for a few seconds or minutes. You (Chris) can make a change if you strongly insist that people put a stop to it. It’s your website. So it should be your responsibility to make sure you don’t silently endorse a culture of boorishness and uncalled-for contempt. Side-note: you just gotta respect John (SOP) here. For a guy whose first instinct is to hit back verbally, he is one of the politest guys in the programming forums. He is intolerant of idiots in the Lounge, but I haven’t seen him reply in an offensive and off-topic way even to some of the dumbest and haziest questions posted here.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
It's difficult to make something idiot proof due to the creativity of idiots. However, it is definitely up to me to at least provide disincentives. Well said, Nish.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
but I'm not sure I agree with your premise.
Which bit?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
given the premise that if someone can't be bothered to phrase a decent question, they probably won't be receptive to abuse and sarcasm,
I think some, when met with some level of abuse or sarcasm, just go away and never post again. It would be interesting to see how many of the 8,0430952 members have posted 1 or 2 questions, no other messages, and not signed in again. I'm not saying I agree with dishing out abuse, etc., but I certainly understand the frustration of wanting to truly help people, then dealing with the reality that some won't even use Google or take the time to think about their own problem.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Why be intolerant of dumb questions?
Because this site has promoted that very thing for years here. Abusive, mocking, scornful replies that are way out of line have always been voted up, and cheered not just in the programming forums but also in the Lounge. I include myself in this list too although for at least 3 years now, I have made a very conscious effort to not only be tolerant of dumb questions but to go out of my way to aggressively respond to people who reply rudely (on occasions against some very popular members/personal friends). In the past it was not this big a problem, because the percentage or rather number of people asking dumb questions were too small to notice. But the site grew fast, too fast for some people, and now there are dozens of dumb questions asked every day so these people (many of them active CPians of many years) don't know any other way than to respond rudely. I am not sure how it's gratifying but I guess it gives them a kick for a few seconds or minutes. You (Chris) can make a change if you strongly insist that people put a stop to it. It’s your website. So it should be your responsibility to make sure you don’t silently endorse a culture of boorishness and uncalled-for contempt. Side-note: you just gotta respect John (SOP) here. For a guy whose first instinct is to hit back verbally, he is one of the politest guys in the programming forums. He is intolerant of idiots in the Lounge, but I haven’t seen him reply in an offensive and off-topic way even to some of the dumbest and haziest questions posted here.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
What an excellent synopsis! This surely has got to be the main contributor to the sarcasm and scathing replies on this site. There needs to be more people like you on this site.
Live for today. Plan for tomorrow. Party tonight!
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I think it's just something you have to put up with Chris.
I strongly disagree. I don't see that any of us need put up with it. 2 things I need to complete, and then the next project is tackling this issue in a very direct way. I think those who follow their points will be the most likely to see the merit of being polite, reporting, or walking away. Frankly, I'm sick of the arrogance I see displayed by people who don't have the courtesy to stop and think about others.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
he next project is tackling this issue in a very direct way.
Excellent. This is what it is going to take. Action from you and other Code Project management. I look forward to what you guys come up with.
Live for today. Plan for tomorrow. Party tonight!
