This is fairly tasteless
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I had hoped to move to the US one day.
The problem with foreigners wanting to move to the U.S. is that they discover that we don't do things the way they did in their home country and expect us to change.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
Oakman wrote:
The problem with foreigners wanting to move to the U.S. is that they discover that we don't do things the way they did in their home country and expect us to change.
That's not a problem I have. I'm lucky enough to have lived in various countries at one stage or another, so I'm used to different cultures.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Oakman wrote:
As to the idea that somehow Perry, or Bachmann would be able to unilaterally repeal the First Amendment, I urge you to rethink your view of how the U.S. Constitution works. Not even Obama who sometimes seems to act as if he believed that a president reigns not serves, would attempt to monkey with the First Amendment.
I don't see them making actual changes to the first amendment, but I could see it being weakened. It's already being gradually weakened by things like anti-hate speech laws and "free speech zones" for protests.
Oakman wrote:
Isn't nice that you live in a country where, if you decide to give up your citizenship, the only thing that is said is, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave?"
Yeah, well, I'd hate to leave (And even if I do end up crossing the border, it'll be as an expat unless things REALLY go bad), but there are limits to the amount of stupidity I can tolerate on a daily basis.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
It's already being gradually weakened by things like anti-hate speech laws and "free speech zones" for protests.
But the United States is the only country in the world that has declared that hate speech laws are incompatible with free speech. Hate speech regulations have been passed by colleges, and other organizations - and there is a law that says that Employers can be prosecuted by tolerating hate speech in the work place, but no law outlawing hate speech -- until you get to Canada where they will feel absolutely free to tell you what you cannot say. Europe is just as bad. (However it is only a rumor that they take away your tongue for a second offense. ;) ) It is certainly true that both political parties have set up "free speech zones," arguing that while the First Amendment guarantees me the right to say my mind, it does not preclude your right not to listen. Right now, the police seem to be enforcing the property rights argument that a speech or convention has the right to determine that some areas of the land it has the use of are off limits to those who would disrupt its proceedings.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
but there are limits to the amount of stupidity I can tolerate on a daily basis.
I have lots of Canadian friends and acquaintances. From what they tell me, stupidity exists in large quantities north of the border, too. For instance, they have instituted the tort reform so beloved by Republicans. Since most injuries, even major ones, are capped at a relatively low level most people simply accept whatever the insurance company offers, which is, I imagine, never more than the minimum.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
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Oakman wrote:
Stupidity is a condition: ignorance is a choice and one that some people make, over and over again, but nonetheless, which is always correctable.
Which brings us right back to the fact this this a coloring book. Now, of all things to explain to a child 9/11 is going to be one of the more difficult, as any instance of 'Yes there are people who want to kill you for often ill defined reasons' sits poorly with... pretty much everyone, let alone children. I was a teen when it happened, and honestly watched in utter disbelief as it did. Having gone through that I have to question, who with two functioning brain cells would present this portion of history to children through a god damn coloring book? I'm thinking they may have a condition, and a history of bad choices.
Again, I ask if this book is being forced on any family against its will. If so, we need to fight it. If not, we need to remember that this country guarantees free speech. If it is being distributed by a school or other governmental agency, it needs to stop.
Distind wrote:
who with two functioning brain cells would present this portion of history to children through a god damn coloring book?
People who don't think they need your permission to publish?
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
It's already being gradually weakened by things like anti-hate speech laws and "free speech zones" for protests.
But the United States is the only country in the world that has declared that hate speech laws are incompatible with free speech. Hate speech regulations have been passed by colleges, and other organizations - and there is a law that says that Employers can be prosecuted by tolerating hate speech in the work place, but no law outlawing hate speech -- until you get to Canada where they will feel absolutely free to tell you what you cannot say. Europe is just as bad. (However it is only a rumor that they take away your tongue for a second offense. ;) ) It is certainly true that both political parties have set up "free speech zones," arguing that while the First Amendment guarantees me the right to say my mind, it does not preclude your right not to listen. Right now, the police seem to be enforcing the property rights argument that a speech or convention has the right to determine that some areas of the land it has the use of are off limits to those who would disrupt its proceedings.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
but there are limits to the amount of stupidity I can tolerate on a daily basis.
I have lots of Canadian friends and acquaintances. From what they tell me, stupidity exists in large quantities north of the border, too. For instance, they have instituted the tort reform so beloved by Republicans. Since most injuries, even major ones, are capped at a relatively low level most people simply accept whatever the insurance company offers, which is, I imagine, never more than the minimum.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
Oakman wrote:
But the United States is the only country in the world that has declared that hate speech laws are incompatible with free speech
And yet, states keep trying to implement them. We're governed by an army of lawyers... They're good at working their way around inconvenient documents like the Bill of Rights. Put the right (wrong) people in office, and get enough lawyers working on a "solution" to this whole "rights" thing, and bad things can happen. Exactly how they'd do it, I don't know... I'm a programmer, not a politician.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Of course Jefferson capitalized "Creator" for a reason because he knew the difference - one I recommend, you research.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
Clever Bloke[^] wrote:
The original version Jefferson wrote did not contain the word Creator. A copy that John Adams wrote in his own hand did not contain the word creator At some point after Jefferson wrote the original draft and before it was submitted to Congress it was changed to the wording with regards to creator that we know today
So it was a trick, Jefferson didn't [originally] write "Creator".
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable, that all men are created equal and independent; that from that equal creation they derive in rights inherent and unalienables, among which are the preservation of life, and liberty and the pursuit of happiness [...]
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Oakman wrote:
But the United States is the only country in the world that has declared that hate speech laws are incompatible with free speech
And yet, states keep trying to implement them. We're governed by an army of lawyers... They're good at working their way around inconvenient documents like the Bill of Rights. Put the right (wrong) people in office, and get enough lawyers working on a "solution" to this whole "rights" thing, and bad things can happen. Exactly how they'd do it, I don't know... I'm a programmer, not a politician.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
Put the right (wrong) people in office, and get enough lawyers working on a "solution" to this whole "rights" thing, and bad things can happen.
My reading of history suggests that they always do. Whether it was Greece, or Rome, or France or England, or Russia, republics always turn into democracies and democracies always turn into dictatorships.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
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Clever Bloke[^] wrote:
The original version Jefferson wrote did not contain the word Creator. A copy that John Adams wrote in his own hand did not contain the word creator At some point after Jefferson wrote the original draft and before it was submitted to Congress it was changed to the wording with regards to creator that we know today
So it was a trick, Jefferson didn't [originally] write "Creator".
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable, that all men are created equal and independent; that from that equal creation they derive in rights inherent and unalienables, among which are the preservation of life, and liberty and the pursuit of happiness [...]
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Even the webpage you site admits that the original version as written by Jefferson no longer exists. However, many people have said that the original version claimed that the rights were life, liberty and property. But the point is that no-one knows. What we do know is that when it was signed on July 2nd 1776, the document referenced a Supreme Being twice.
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
So it was a trick,
How do you figure that? There are other phrases that were added and subtracted. Was each and every one a "trick?"
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
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Even the webpage you site admits that the original version as written by Jefferson no longer exists. However, many people have said that the original version claimed that the rights were life, liberty and property. But the point is that no-one knows. What we do know is that when it was signed on July 2nd 1776, the document referenced a Supreme Being twice.
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
So it was a trick,
How do you figure that? There are other phrases that were added and subtracted. Was each and every one a "trick?"
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
The trick was by you, that is 'why did Jefferson choose "Creator"' which my [limited] research says he didn't.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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I'm doing all I can to insure that here in South Carolina - a state Perry is depending on - the truth is known about this poseur. You could do with a little knowledge yourself. Perry's new-found role as a fundamentalist came about only because he discovered that it was a great way of getting elected in a state where fundamental Christianity is a belief practiced by many. Everything about his political career suggests that Perry is a chameleon, saying and "believing" what he thinks will get him elected. He remains a good friend to Al Gore, a man whose campaign for the Presidential nomination he managed, he favored amnesty as long as he was running for office in Texas, and he supported Clinton's attempt to create Hillarycare. In other words, he's a whore who will say and do anything that he thinks will get him elected. Right now he's talking right because he thinks that's how he can get the nomination. He'll move to the center if he gets it, in an attempt to force Obama to the left. As to the idea that somehow Perry, or Bachmann would be able to unilaterally repeal the First Amendment, I urge you to rethink your view of how the U.S. Constitution works. Not even Obama who sometimes seems to act as if he believed that a president reigns not serves, would attempt to monkey with the First Amendment. Isn't nice that you live in a country where, if you decide to give up your citizenship, the only thing that is said is, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave?"
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
Oakman wrote:
I'm doing all I can to insure that here in South Carolina - a state Perry is depending on - the truth is known about this poseur. You could do with a little knowledge yourself. Perry's new-found role as a fundamentalist came about only because he discovered that it was a great way of getting elected in a state where fundamental Christianity is a belief practiced by many. Everything about his political career suggests that Perry is a chameleon, saying and "believing" what he thinks will get him elected.
Basically, Bill Clinton. Not that there's anything wrong with that. What gets me is all the anti-Perrys who complain he "doesn't have a plan" for SS, or Education, or whatever. Well, yeah, he does. Get the Fed the hell out of the business. That's a plan I can get behind. But it won't happen, regardless of whether he means.
Just like that old Carly Simon song... "You're so funny, You probably think this joke is about you" My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
It's already being gradually weakened by things like anti-hate speech laws and "free speech zones" for protests.
But the United States is the only country in the world that has declared that hate speech laws are incompatible with free speech. Hate speech regulations have been passed by colleges, and other organizations - and there is a law that says that Employers can be prosecuted by tolerating hate speech in the work place, but no law outlawing hate speech -- until you get to Canada where they will feel absolutely free to tell you what you cannot say. Europe is just as bad. (However it is only a rumor that they take away your tongue for a second offense. ;) ) It is certainly true that both political parties have set up "free speech zones," arguing that while the First Amendment guarantees me the right to say my mind, it does not preclude your right not to listen. Right now, the police seem to be enforcing the property rights argument that a speech or convention has the right to determine that some areas of the land it has the use of are off limits to those who would disrupt its proceedings.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
but there are limits to the amount of stupidity I can tolerate on a daily basis.
I have lots of Canadian friends and acquaintances. From what they tell me, stupidity exists in large quantities north of the border, too. For instance, they have instituted the tort reform so beloved by Republicans. Since most injuries, even major ones, are capped at a relatively low level most people simply accept whatever the insurance company offers, which is, I imagine, never more than the minimum.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
Oakman wrote:
I have lots of Canadian friends and acquaintances. From what they tell me, stupidity exists in large quantities north of the border, too.
You know these guys?! http://youtu.be/yZCI39NWZ5g[^]
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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The trick was by you, that is 'why did Jefferson choose "Creator"' which my [limited] research says he didn't.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
A. Jefferson is the acknowledged author of the document. B. He was present throughout the period of time between his presentation of his original (which is actually a misnomer, since it had already been worked over by both John Adams and Ben Franklin) and the signing of the document. C. He acquiesced to each and every change. D. He signed the document. If there is a trick here, it is your willingness to offer a single, anonymous, source found by Googling, as a credible revision of history.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
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Oakman wrote:
But the United States is the only country in the world that has declared that hate speech laws are incompatible with free speech
And yet, states keep trying to implement them. We're governed by an army of lawyers... They're good at working their way around inconvenient documents like the Bill of Rights. Put the right (wrong) people in office, and get enough lawyers working on a "solution" to this whole "rights" thing, and bad things can happen. Exactly how they'd do it, I don't know... I'm a programmer, not a politician.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I have to agree with the oakman's point here. Feeling the 1st Amendment is under threat, and then leaving the U.S. because of it, seems odd. There are a few other Amendments that I find important, and would never leave the U.S. just because they were under threat, to go to a country where there are no such Amendments. Hypothetical: "Oh man, my right to own guns in under threat, I'll move to country with more gun control."
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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I have to agree with the oakman's point here. Feeling the 1st Amendment is under threat, and then leaving the U.S. because of it, seems odd. There are a few other Amendments that I find important, and would never leave the U.S. just because they were under threat, to go to a country where there are no such Amendments. Hypothetical: "Oh man, my right to own guns in under threat, I'll move to country with more gun control."
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
Actually, I see it more along the lines of, "Ahhh! There's an escaped mental patient driving the bus! I'll take a cab instead." Of course, I'm really hoping at least part of the country comes to its senses, and tosses Perry and Bachmann to the curb. I should register as a Republican and vote for a non-nutcase in the primary... I'd feel a lot more comfortable if it ended up as Obama vs Romney (Or one of the others - I don't know that much about some of the other candidates).
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Actually, I see it more along the lines of, "Ahhh! There's an escaped mental patient driving the bus! I'll take a cab instead." Of course, I'm really hoping at least part of the country comes to its senses, and tosses Perry and Bachmann to the curb. I should register as a Republican and vote for a non-nutcase in the primary... I'd feel a lot more comfortable if it ended up as Obama vs Romney (Or one of the others - I don't know that much about some of the other candidates).
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Really, as an atheist you'd be fine with a Mormon on the ballot? :omg:
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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Really, as an atheist you'd be fine with a Mormon on the ballot? :omg:
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
It's not a matter of what religion the candidate follows. It's a matter of whether he lets it interfere with his politics. And... wow... I was looking for a link to an article about Perry's stupid prayer rally as a prime example, but this CNN article goes even further: http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/17/17612/[^]... Never heard of "Dominionism" before... Hmm...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
It's not a matter of what religion the candidate follows. It's a matter of whether he lets it interfere with his politics. And... wow... I was looking for a link to an article about Perry's stupid prayer rally as a prime example, but this CNN article goes even further: http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/17/17612/[^]... Never heard of "Dominionism" before... Hmm...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Doesn't sound too far off from Mormonism...
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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Doesn't sound too far off from Mormonism...
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
Again, it's not a question of which religion he follows. It's a question of whether he makes decisions and drafts policies based on it. When you have Bachmann talking about how "god" told her to run, and Perry running his prayerapalooza thing... That's the scary end of the spectrum. Maybe I'm just uninformed, but I haven't heard of Romney mixing his religion with his political career.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Again, it's not a question of which religion he follows. It's a question of whether he makes decisions and drafts policies based on it. When you have Bachmann talking about how "god" told her to run, and Perry running his prayerapalooza thing... That's the scary end of the spectrum. Maybe I'm just uninformed, but I haven't heard of Romney mixing his religion with his political career.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I don't think you have to flaunt it if you're say Mormon, or Scientologist, for one to assume it will influence you. Both are cult like enough. You said you didn't care which religion, yet you seem fearful of Dominionism they seem associated with.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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I don't think you have to flaunt it if you're say Mormon, or Scientologist, for one to assume it will influence you. Both are cult like enough. You said you didn't care which religion, yet you seem fearful of Dominionism they seem associated with.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
I didn't even know what Dominionism was until I spotted that link (After typing my reply)... I merely look at Perry and Bachmann, and see two people who would just LOVE to turn a Republic into a Theocracy, and that scares me. And as far as I'm concerned, all religions can act as cults (And most WERE at some point), including Christianity. It's a matter of how devoted their followers are.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I didn't even know what Dominionism was until I spotted that link (After typing my reply)... I merely look at Perry and Bachmann, and see two people who would just LOVE to turn a Republic into a Theocracy, and that scares me. And as far as I'm concerned, all religions can act as cults (And most WERE at some point), including Christianity. It's a matter of how devoted their followers are.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
I merely look at Perry and Bachmann, and see two people who would just LOVE to turn a Republic into a Theocracy, and that scares me.
The fundamental problem here, is that you are believing the words coming out of a politician's mouth.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.