Unfair Comparison of Windows Explorer
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It's my opinion that the fact that a piece of software can be configured to behave reasonably does not excuse the fact that the default behavior is unreasonable. Configurability can mitigate a flaw's negative impact, but it cannot eliminate it. Beyond the cost of writing the code for the configurability, there is the cost imposed on the end users, who must re-configure around unreasonable defaults. In some cases, users end up doing this over and over again. Because of the nature of my work, I end up working with fresh OS installs a great deal of the time. So, I've really grown weary of having to reconfigure annoying defaults, go through "first time run" wizards, and such. Is it unreasonable for me to expect Windows XP to show me file extensions by default, for example, in light of the fact that all of its ancestor OSes beginning with CP/M did show them? I don't think so, and hiding away a checkbox somewhere that allows me to fix this problem one computer at a time really doesn't address the fundamental problem. And perhaps most importantly, there are the costs associated with the confusion created by a highly configurable OS. Windows' GUI is (or at least was) a sort of common language that allowed diverse users to use diverse programs as quickly and comfortably as possible. Anything that weakens this shared graphical language is bad, in my opinion. Finally, Windows has a difficult enough time satisfying the needs of both home users and professional users. Attempting to make it work with other categories of users and devices is somewhat unreasonable, in my opinion. Microsoft understandably wants Windows to run on everything from your dishwasher to your GPS system... one wonders, though, how coherent the end result could possibly be.
Working with a fresh install often cannot be taken into account by Microsoft, you represent such a small group. And I'm sure you could ease up some of the configuring by either using an image instead of installing windows or making a .reg file which can probably change 80% of the defaults you do not like. I just played around with the developer preview yesterday and from what I saw Windows 8 offers me absolutely nothing and I will be staying with Window 7 until I know of a way to turn that metro thing of, which I personally hate. And that's just fine I know Microsoft ain't developing an OS aimed at developers, and they never will.
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I found a blog post about Improvements in Windows Explorer for Windows 8[^]. The post goes to great lengths to make the argument that Windows Explorer in Windows 8 is going to be a vast improvement over the previous versions. The new improvement is the Ribbon API. If you're not aware, the Ribbon API basically takes the file menu and places all of its items as pictures. There is no longer a drop down to display the individual items. See the left side of the image below to see it. The blog goes on to elaborate about the greatness of the Ribbon and all of its advantages. As a power user, I consider the ribbon to be a waste of valuable screen space that could be used for something else. It is interesting to note that Windows 8 is being designed for tablets and phones. But when I look at how much space the ribbon takes up on my large monitor, I can't imagine how little space I would have left to do any actual work if this was on my netbook's 10 inch screen. I find it interesting that the Windows Explorer group is going with larger menus that take up valuable screen real estate while the Internet Explorer group is minimizing the space on the screen that the browser takes up and maximizing the space that the web page can display its content. Maybe the Internet Explorer team could lend their design people to the Explorer group for a few months... To the heart of my point, I took three screen shots of Windows Explorer, one in Windows 8, one in Windows 7, and the final in Windows XP. Each screen shot has 13 files highlighted on the screen to demonstrate how efficient Explorer was at doing what it was designed for. All images were taken at 1600x1200 resolution and placed next to each other for comparison. I didn't modify the size of any of the pictures other than cutting out the relevant piece for viewing. It appears to me that we're going in the wrong direction for efficiency and space to complete actual work! Side by side comparison of Windows 8/7/XP Windows Explorer[^] Hogan
Why do I feel another Vista looming on the horizon. They create a OS that they feel they can make a butt load of money on and incidentally we're going require you purchase a new set of tools to do it with a multitude of inherited bugs that we've totally ignored fixing since .Net -.0009. And the training why that's extra too, man we can clean up on this puppy. I downloaded it and played with it for about 20 min.. To say I didn't care for it would be an understatement. Might be different if I had a tablet but for desktop usage...nah!
Sects Therapy
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Working with a fresh install often cannot be taken into account by Microsoft, you represent such a small group. And I'm sure you could ease up some of the configuring by either using an image instead of installing windows or making a .reg file which can probably change 80% of the defaults you do not like. I just played around with the developer preview yesterday and from what I saw Windows 8 offers me absolutely nothing and I will be staying with Window 7 until I know of a way to turn that metro thing of, which I personally hate. And that's just fine I know Microsoft ain't developing an OS aimed at developers, and they never will.
> you represent such a small group. I get told this pretty frequently, and I don't know if I believe it or not. What you assert is likely true in raw numerical terms; that is, a plurality of Windows users employ it to check the e-mail on the Facebook and that's about it. But if you were to look at hours of total Windows usage then I think people like me would represent a much larger proportion of Windows usage. Furthermore, if you throw out people who don't have a strong opinion, or simply lack the background to formulate an opinion beyond the basest of gut-level reactions, then people in my position would represent a still larger proportion of the whole Windows user base. Finally, I'm part of a constituency that Microsoft at least purports to value. Steve Ballmer didn't jump and down shouting "Clueless AOL Users! Clueless AOL Users!" at a trade conference; it was "Developers! Developers! Developers!" None of this is to say that I'm right and that clueless n00bs who get confused if they see file extensions are wrong. Rather, I'm trying to point out a dichotomy here that I think Microsoft is going to have to come to grips with. I use Windows to make a living. I don't need it to be pretty, or even obvious. Any concessions it makes to hardware other than the general-purpose computer are basically wasted on me, as are "wizards," tutorials, and the like. I need Windows to be predictable, reliable, powerful, and above all else, consistent. Working professionally with the last few versions of Windows has been analogous to trying to do plumbing out of the trunk of a Toyota Camry. Sure, it can be done; and yes, everyone else is mostly fine with the product. But to look at such a dictatorship of the majority and accept it as inevitable is an error, I think. Where does this line of reasoning lead? It doesn't much matter what I think, so I haven't completely thought it through. In rough terms, though, I can see a niche for a "professional OS" that still exposes the same APIs as consumer Windows. Also, I don't think benefits anyone for Microsoft to aggressively re-skin Windows just to make it seem new, and I think there's been a fair amount of that going on in basically every release after Windows 2000. (I think the "Metro" thing you're referring to falls into this category.)
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I found a blog post about Improvements in Windows Explorer for Windows 8[^]. The post goes to great lengths to make the argument that Windows Explorer in Windows 8 is going to be a vast improvement over the previous versions. The new improvement is the Ribbon API. If you're not aware, the Ribbon API basically takes the file menu and places all of its items as pictures. There is no longer a drop down to display the individual items. See the left side of the image below to see it. The blog goes on to elaborate about the greatness of the Ribbon and all of its advantages. As a power user, I consider the ribbon to be a waste of valuable screen space that could be used for something else. It is interesting to note that Windows 8 is being designed for tablets and phones. But when I look at how much space the ribbon takes up on my large monitor, I can't imagine how little space I would have left to do any actual work if this was on my netbook's 10 inch screen. I find it interesting that the Windows Explorer group is going with larger menus that take up valuable screen real estate while the Internet Explorer group is minimizing the space on the screen that the browser takes up and maximizing the space that the web page can display its content. Maybe the Internet Explorer team could lend their design people to the Explorer group for a few months... To the heart of my point, I took three screen shots of Windows Explorer, one in Windows 8, one in Windows 7, and the final in Windows XP. Each screen shot has 13 files highlighted on the screen to demonstrate how efficient Explorer was at doing what it was designed for. All images were taken at 1600x1200 resolution and placed next to each other for comparison. I didn't modify the size of any of the pictures other than cutting out the relevant piece for viewing. It appears to me that we're going in the wrong direction for efficiency and space to complete actual work! Side by side comparison of Windows 8/7/XP Windows Explorer[^] Hogan
snorkie wrote:
The new improvement is the Ribbon API.
In fairness this statement is utterly wrong. There are a *lot* of seriously good improvements that I've read about in explorer and ribbon was pretty far down on the list in the articles I read. That aside I agree that I just can't get behind the ribbon, I think it looks like crap takes up too much space and is confusing and byzantine at best but ignoring that they did make a *lot* of big improvements to explorer that were long overdue in a modern o.s.
There is no failure only feedback
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I found a blog post about Improvements in Windows Explorer for Windows 8[^]. The post goes to great lengths to make the argument that Windows Explorer in Windows 8 is going to be a vast improvement over the previous versions. The new improvement is the Ribbon API. If you're not aware, the Ribbon API basically takes the file menu and places all of its items as pictures. There is no longer a drop down to display the individual items. See the left side of the image below to see it. The blog goes on to elaborate about the greatness of the Ribbon and all of its advantages. As a power user, I consider the ribbon to be a waste of valuable screen space that could be used for something else. It is interesting to note that Windows 8 is being designed for tablets and phones. But when I look at how much space the ribbon takes up on my large monitor, I can't imagine how little space I would have left to do any actual work if this was on my netbook's 10 inch screen. I find it interesting that the Windows Explorer group is going with larger menus that take up valuable screen real estate while the Internet Explorer group is minimizing the space on the screen that the browser takes up and maximizing the space that the web page can display its content. Maybe the Internet Explorer team could lend their design people to the Explorer group for a few months... To the heart of my point, I took three screen shots of Windows Explorer, one in Windows 8, one in Windows 7, and the final in Windows XP. Each screen shot has 13 files highlighted on the screen to demonstrate how efficient Explorer was at doing what it was designed for. All images were taken at 1600x1200 resolution and placed next to each other for comparison. I didn't modify the size of any of the pictures other than cutting out the relevant piece for viewing. It appears to me that we're going in the wrong direction for efficiency and space to complete actual work! Side by side comparison of Windows 8/7/XP Windows Explorer[^] Hogan
I'm confused, because your screenshot of Windows 7 does not look anything like my Windows 7 Explorer. It should look almost identical to Windows 8, minus the ribbon. That looks kind of like Windows Server 2008, not Windows 7. Where did you get your screen shot?
The world is going to laugh at you anyway, might as well crack the 1st joke! Have you tried turning it off and on again? Have you tried forcing an unexpected reboot?
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I found a blog post about Improvements in Windows Explorer for Windows 8[^]. The post goes to great lengths to make the argument that Windows Explorer in Windows 8 is going to be a vast improvement over the previous versions. The new improvement is the Ribbon API. If you're not aware, the Ribbon API basically takes the file menu and places all of its items as pictures. There is no longer a drop down to display the individual items. See the left side of the image below to see it. The blog goes on to elaborate about the greatness of the Ribbon and all of its advantages. As a power user, I consider the ribbon to be a waste of valuable screen space that could be used for something else. It is interesting to note that Windows 8 is being designed for tablets and phones. But when I look at how much space the ribbon takes up on my large monitor, I can't imagine how little space I would have left to do any actual work if this was on my netbook's 10 inch screen. I find it interesting that the Windows Explorer group is going with larger menus that take up valuable screen real estate while the Internet Explorer group is minimizing the space on the screen that the browser takes up and maximizing the space that the web page can display its content. Maybe the Internet Explorer team could lend their design people to the Explorer group for a few months... To the heart of my point, I took three screen shots of Windows Explorer, one in Windows 8, one in Windows 7, and the final in Windows XP. Each screen shot has 13 files highlighted on the screen to demonstrate how efficient Explorer was at doing what it was designed for. All images were taken at 1600x1200 resolution and placed next to each other for comparison. I didn't modify the size of any of the pictures other than cutting out the relevant piece for viewing. It appears to me that we're going in the wrong direction for efficiency and space to complete actual work! Side by side comparison of Windows 8/7/XP Windows Explorer[^] Hogan
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I'm confused, because your screenshot of Windows 7 does not look anything like my Windows 7 Explorer. It should look almost identical to Windows 8, minus the ribbon. That looks kind of like Windows Server 2008, not Windows 7. Where did you get your screen shot?
The world is going to laugh at you anyway, might as well crack the 1st joke! Have you tried turning it off and on again? Have you tried forcing an unexpected reboot?
I took the screen shot from my desktop. Its a Win7 Ultimate x64 OS. I'm not running the defaults, but I believe it is close enough for comparison. Compared to XP explorer, it is still too large. I prefer smaller windows with more useful information. To me explorer interface should maximize the files/folders that it displays. Hogan
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I found a blog post about Improvements in Windows Explorer for Windows 8[^]. The post goes to great lengths to make the argument that Windows Explorer in Windows 8 is going to be a vast improvement over the previous versions. The new improvement is the Ribbon API. If you're not aware, the Ribbon API basically takes the file menu and places all of its items as pictures. There is no longer a drop down to display the individual items. See the left side of the image below to see it. The blog goes on to elaborate about the greatness of the Ribbon and all of its advantages. As a power user, I consider the ribbon to be a waste of valuable screen space that could be used for something else. It is interesting to note that Windows 8 is being designed for tablets and phones. But when I look at how much space the ribbon takes up on my large monitor, I can't imagine how little space I would have left to do any actual work if this was on my netbook's 10 inch screen. I find it interesting that the Windows Explorer group is going with larger menus that take up valuable screen real estate while the Internet Explorer group is minimizing the space on the screen that the browser takes up and maximizing the space that the web page can display its content. Maybe the Internet Explorer team could lend their design people to the Explorer group for a few months... To the heart of my point, I took three screen shots of Windows Explorer, one in Windows 8, one in Windows 7, and the final in Windows XP. Each screen shot has 13 files highlighted on the screen to demonstrate how efficient Explorer was at doing what it was designed for. All images were taken at 1600x1200 resolution and placed next to each other for comparison. I didn't modify the size of any of the pictures other than cutting out the relevant piece for viewing. It appears to me that we're going in the wrong direction for efficiency and space to complete actual work! Side by side comparison of Windows 8/7/XP Windows Explorer[^] Hogan
You can minimize the ribbon by clicking the "carat" button (the upside down v) at the right end of the ribbon and this will "autohide" the ribbon contents. Clicking on what remains will show the ribbon for use but otherwise, give you more room in the list view.
Mike Poz
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You can use SMS for Twitter, so size doesn't really matter on cell phones...
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
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snorkie wrote:
I can't imagine how little space I would have left to do any actual work if this was on my netbook's 10 inch screen.
I can. Trying to use MS Office products on a netbook with the ribbon open is terrible, especially when another half of the screen is a big ad...(its the free version because I'm too cheap to get real MS Office)
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Why do I feel another Vista looming on the horizon. They create a OS that they feel they can make a butt load of money on and incidentally we're going require you purchase a new set of tools to do it with a multitude of inherited bugs that we've totally ignored fixing since .Net -.0009. And the training why that's extra too, man we can clean up on this puppy. I downloaded it and played with it for about 20 min.. To say I didn't care for it would be an understatement. Might be different if I had a tablet but for desktop usage...nah!
Sects Therapy
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Mike Hankey wrote:
Why do I feel another Vista looming on the horizon.
That would mean they have speeded up their lifecycle. It used to be every third release sucked.
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." ~ Albert Einstein
Oakman wrote:
That would mean they have speeded up their lifecycle. It used to be every third release sucked.
But that was with Gates at the helm.
Sects Therapy
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You can minimize the ribbon by clicking the "carat" button (the upside down v) at the right end of the ribbon and this will "autohide" the ribbon contents. Clicking on what remains will show the ribbon for use but otherwise, give you more room in the list view.
Mike Poz
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Or perhaps better stated, Windows 8 is for consumers, and that isn't necessarily a slam. MS is making Windows friendly to regular, non-nerdly types. Consumers don't like file systems. So it's largely hidden from view. I remember back in the late 1990s, a tech futurist had predicted that file systems would disappear from the consumers view eventually. At the time I thought he was a little crazy, but now I see the wisdom in what he was saying: only nerds care about file systems. We have good reason to care about file systems. But most end users don't, and in fact, letting non-nerdly types futz with the file system might actually be a bad idea. Even the whole Metro environment aligns with this idea that, unless you know what you're doing, all your apps should be isolated and safe by default. Want an app that does something outside that box? Ok, open the car hood, crack open the full Windows desktop, install that bad boy. But for everything else, and for most apps, and for most people, you don't need that, and in fact, having that power is detrimental as non-nerds tend to install dubious apps that crap all over their systems. I hope all my relatives and friends who call me to fix their systems, I hope they all install Windows 8 when it's out. And I hope they never have to crack open the hood and futz with their file systems, or need to install "classic" Windows apps. If they stay in their walled Metro garden, they won't need me to bail them out every few months.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Your "comparison" is not quite fair. If you line up the files area in each of the "versions" then you will see that the # of files is either the same in Win8 or slightly more. Make sure to display the explorer windows full screen with a lot of files so that the list is "full". I think you'll find you haven't lost anything.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
In some ways, screens are getting bigger, but in others, we're using smaller devices. My netbook will only display 800x600 and its fairly new with a 10 inch screen. Keeping with the idea that they do take up relatively the same space if you factor in the time when they were released, you have to wonder if we have gained anything. I would prefer the XP interface with today's equipment and be able to see all/more files per screen. Using "Drew's Law" (I just made up a law for you), in 20 years we'll all be using screens the size of movie theaters, but only be able to display 13 files because the menus will have gotten larger with each release :) Hogan
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snorkie wrote:
The new improvement is the Ribbon API.
In fairness this statement is utterly wrong. There are a *lot* of seriously good improvements that I've read about in explorer and ribbon was pretty far down on the list in the articles I read. That aside I agree that I just can't get behind the ribbon, I think it looks like crap takes up too much space and is confusing and byzantine at best but ignoring that they did make a *lot* of big improvements to explorer that were long overdue in a modern o.s.
There is no failure only feedback
-
Or perhaps better stated, Windows 8 is for consumers, and that isn't necessarily a slam. MS is making Windows friendly to regular, non-nerdly types. Consumers don't like file systems. So it's largely hidden from view. I remember back in the late 1990s, a tech futurist had predicted that file systems would disappear from the consumers view eventually. At the time I thought he was a little crazy, but now I see the wisdom in what he was saying: only nerds care about file systems. We have good reason to care about file systems. But most end users don't, and in fact, letting non-nerdly types futz with the file system might actually be a bad idea. Even the whole Metro environment aligns with this idea that, unless you know what you're doing, all your apps should be isolated and safe by default. Want an app that does something outside that box? Ok, open the car hood, crack open the full Windows desktop, install that bad boy. But for everything else, and for most apps, and for most people, you don't need that, and in fact, having that power is detrimental as non-nerds tend to install dubious apps that crap all over their systems. I hope all my relatives and friends who call me to fix their systems, I hope they all install Windows 8 when it's out. And I hope they never have to crack open the hood and futz with their file systems, or need to install "classic" Windows apps. If they stay in their walled Metro garden, they won't need me to bail them out every few months.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoUnfortunately, Windows 8 won't keep your users from getting viruses. You will still be needed.
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I found a blog post about Improvements in Windows Explorer for Windows 8[^]. The post goes to great lengths to make the argument that Windows Explorer in Windows 8 is going to be a vast improvement over the previous versions. The new improvement is the Ribbon API. If you're not aware, the Ribbon API basically takes the file menu and places all of its items as pictures. There is no longer a drop down to display the individual items. See the left side of the image below to see it. The blog goes on to elaborate about the greatness of the Ribbon and all of its advantages. As a power user, I consider the ribbon to be a waste of valuable screen space that could be used for something else. It is interesting to note that Windows 8 is being designed for tablets and phones. But when I look at how much space the ribbon takes up on my large monitor, I can't imagine how little space I would have left to do any actual work if this was on my netbook's 10 inch screen. I find it interesting that the Windows Explorer group is going with larger menus that take up valuable screen real estate while the Internet Explorer group is minimizing the space on the screen that the browser takes up and maximizing the space that the web page can display its content. Maybe the Internet Explorer team could lend their design people to the Explorer group for a few months... To the heart of my point, I took three screen shots of Windows Explorer, one in Windows 8, one in Windows 7, and the final in Windows XP. Each screen shot has 13 files highlighted on the screen to demonstrate how efficient Explorer was at doing what it was designed for. All images were taken at 1600x1200 resolution and placed next to each other for comparison. I didn't modify the size of any of the pictures other than cutting out the relevant piece for viewing. It appears to me that we're going in the wrong direction for efficiency and space to complete actual work! Side by side comparison of Windows 8/7/XP Windows Explorer[^] Hogan
Larger menus to accommodate touch screens like the tablets and PCs with touch screens. Fingers are fatter than mouse pointers and applications will need to change for that reason. On a normal application, try selecting the file menu option from the application's menu with your finger. You might get the file menu to open, you might get the system menu to open, you might get what is on the line below to open and run. Touch screen applications are quite different.
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Unfortunately, Windows 8 won't keep your users from getting viruses. You will still be needed.
Actually, it will help. If you stay in the Metro walled garden, which I think most consumers will, you'll have fewer chances of getting a virus, since each Metro app is self-contained, sandboxed by the runtime, and approved by the MS app store.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
