it's new year's eve now...
-
Freedoms I have lost that I care about.... I cannot buy a six pack at the local grocery store on Sunday. I cannot keep most of my paycheck due to various taxes. I cannot drive as fast as I'm comfortable without risking a traffic violation I may not actually own land, but rather rent it from the government via property tax I can't buy a ferret in South Carolina, (but I can bring one in from elsewhere) I can not get a tattoo in SC, either. (I can drive an hour to NC and get one though) I cannot open up a casino in this state either, however I can play state run lottery.(not a problem but does piss me off) I can work where I want, buy want I want, live where I want, spend my free time however I choose, invest money or save it how I wish, vote on my representatives, travel freely, complain about the laws, what have I lost that really effects my daily living?? There are individual reports(richard humphries "burning bush"), but these are not the norm, and I don't really know the full story behind them anyway. BW "If you enjoy what you do, you'll never work another day in your life." - Confucius
brianwelsch wrote: what have I lost that really effects my daily living?? you've lost the ability to be sure that the government will not search your house without a warrant. you've lost the ability to be sure that the government will not seize your property without a trial. (war on some drugs) you've lost the ability to be sure that the government will not monitor your internet access, library book use, purchases, phone calls (including those to your attorney), etc without you having actually broken a law. they only need to think that you might be involved in something. "guilty until we decide otherwise" just replaced "innocent until proven guilty". (USA PATRIOT) you've lost the ability to be sure that the govt won't vaccinate you against your will. and, if those vaccinations hurt you, you have no recourse (thanks to the Homeland Security Bill that was just passed). i'm not making any of this up, and if you like, i'll do the Googling to find the particular laws for you. -c
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
-
Stan Shannon wrote: How loudly did you complain when the federal government came for the Branch Dividians in Waco? i didn't complain at all. i was 20. i was more concerned with getting through Physics III at the time. Stan Shannon wrote: Conservatives have been complaining for decades about the lose of our traditional constitutional liberties as the left went about virtually rewriting the entire document. sure, it's someone else's fault. how long has Bush been in office? has he fixed a single thing? no, he's raised the bar on how intrusive and unaccountable government can be. if he had a "D (TX)" next to his name, you'd be in a fucking frenzy. and until the saintly, all perfect, all knowing, all seeing, brilliant godlike right does something that doesn't include bringing back COINTELPRO, implementing a big-brother police state, illegally detaining its own citizens, and otherwise ignoring all the amedments except the precious 2nd, you should shut up about the evil "left". Stan Shannon wrote: what is the first thing you would do? * push for the un-doing of PATRIOT * get the pharma welfare out of the Homeland Security bill * get the fucker who put it there fired * stop the defense work-fare (Gulf II, missile defense) * quit trying to gut the EPA (because like it or not, there's more to life than oil and power company profits - some people actually like to go outside and breathe on the weekends) * tell the media companies that they cannot have indefinite extensions on copyrights, even if it means Disney loses control of Mickey Mouse * push for meaningful campaign finance reform. stop pretending that money = speech; it doesn't, only a lawyer would claim otherwise. * get the US out of the world police job. for real. should i go on?
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
Pissed you off, did he? Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
-
brianwelsch wrote: what have I lost that really effects my daily living?? you've lost the ability to be sure that the government will not search your house without a warrant. you've lost the ability to be sure that the government will not seize your property without a trial. (war on some drugs) you've lost the ability to be sure that the government will not monitor your internet access, library book use, purchases, phone calls (including those to your attorney), etc without you having actually broken a law. they only need to think that you might be involved in something. "guilty until we decide otherwise" just replaced "innocent until proven guilty". (USA PATRIOT) you've lost the ability to be sure that the govt won't vaccinate you against your will. and, if those vaccinations hurt you, you have no recourse (thanks to the Homeland Security Bill that was just passed). i'm not making any of this up, and if you like, i'll do the Googling to find the particular laws for you. -c
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
Chris Losinger wrote: i'm not making any of this up, and if you like, i'll do the Googling to find the particular laws for you. I know its not made up. I guess my whole point is, I am not concerned nor are many people like me, because an incredibly large percentage of the time 1 & 2 do not happen to joe schmoe regular citizen who is leading a law-abiding life. 3 really doesn't bother me. If Uncle Sam wants to know that I've searched on the Anarchist Cookbook, Aerosmith, and World Cup Soccer, I don't care. Just like I really wouldn't care if you knew what I bought at the grocery store. Its all uninteresting and useless information when it comes to applying it to my life. Re: #4, AFAIK, there are waivers for any vaccination, they just don't advertise them. the right to sue I believe was ony taken away for the one vaccination given by a specific company, and that was only for lawsuits dealing with autism(sp?) I might wrong here, but thats my understanding. I understand where you are coming from. That we should make a stand at each injustice to help maintain/improve our level of freedom, and I'm becoming more likely to make an issue over things that bother me that don't immediately effect my life (on a normal day), but at the end of the day its hard to have the energy to fight for things that I don't really see. For the most part Uncle Sam keeps me fat and happy. BW "If you enjoy what you do, you'll never work another day in your life." - Confucius
-
brianwelsch wrote: what have I lost that really effects my daily living?? you've lost the ability to be sure that the government will not search your house without a warrant. you've lost the ability to be sure that the government will not seize your property without a trial. (war on some drugs) you've lost the ability to be sure that the government will not monitor your internet access, library book use, purchases, phone calls (including those to your attorney), etc without you having actually broken a law. they only need to think that you might be involved in something. "guilty until we decide otherwise" just replaced "innocent until proven guilty". (USA PATRIOT) you've lost the ability to be sure that the govt won't vaccinate you against your will. and, if those vaccinations hurt you, you have no recourse (thanks to the Homeland Security Bill that was just passed). i'm not making any of this up, and if you like, i'll do the Googling to find the particular laws for you. -c
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
I'd have to agree. It bothered Bob Barr so much that he now works for the ACLU... But, I don't blame it so much on conservatives (note, not the same as Republican in most cases) as I do on the same panicy wimps that bought us political correctness. Both major parties focus way too much on promoting their own future, at our expense. Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
-
My engineering (and Business Think) cap here says that the root cause of all this is religion it self. People need to belive more in themselves. It is way to easy to say that you have done somehting in the name of a God. Blow up 3000 people and say that you did it because YOU felt that they deserved it and suddenly it becomes much more difficult to get people to stand behind you and wave your flag. My problem with all organized religion is that it BREEDS fanatics.
Paul Watson wrote: "At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote: "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
IMHO, not just Religion(s), but "True Believers" of any persuasion... Some pertinent quotes from Eric Hoffer's book "The True Believer" (well worth the effort to read!): "The less justified a man is in claiming excellence for his own self, the more ready he is to claim all excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or his holy cause." "A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, he takes his mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people's business." "Unless a man has the talents to make something of himself, freedom is an irksome burden...We join a mass movement to escape from individual responsibility, or, in the words of an ardent young Nazi, 'to be free from freedom.' It was not sheer hypocrisy when the rank-and-file Nazis declared themselves not guilty of all the enormities they had committed. They considered themselves cheated and maligned when made to shoulder responsibility for obeying orders. Had they not joined the Nazi movement in order to be free from responsibility?" Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
-
Bitterman wrote: What's Latin for "Sieze the day"? "e clampus phallus?" "How many times do I have to flush before you go away?" - Megan Forbes, on Management (12/5/2002)
:laugh: Carpe phallus. BW "If you enjoy what you do, you'll never work another day in your life." - Confucius
-
N Korea will attack US west coast. That is the range of their new missile. ... and of course, S. Korea and Japan. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
True, but the likelyhood of North Korea and the US coming into conflict is less likely than a conflict with Iraq. North Korea could invade South Korea. They could also prevent the US from entering the war by threatening a nuclear strike. But, South Korea has a pretty well-trained military (even if they have half as many soldiers as the North). Iraq, on the other hand, has a recent history of bad behavior. You can cite Kuwait, the Iran-Iraq war, Saddam's use of chemical weapons against his civilian population, and his general desire for greatness. The US (and UN) needs to retain the ability to "spank" Saddam. Saddam has shown a willingness to endure economic santions. And the only option stronger than sanctions is war. If Saddam gets nukes he effectively eliminates the military option. If Saddam were to get nukes, the ability to deliver them to military targets, and then invade Kuwait, how many nations would be willing to join into a second Gulf war? Answer: Not very many. Since we already know how persuasive economic sanctions are, then if he gets nukes, we are effectively eliminating any ability to reign him in. North Korea invaded the South 50 years ago, but that was 50 years ago. I don't doubt that they'd do it again if the South was weak, but it isn't. Some of Iraq's neighbors, on the other hand, cannot hope to reach military parity with Iraq and will always be at risk of a military invasion. ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
-
Marc Clifton wrote: designated free-speech area where is that? My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
The only place I can think of is the shower. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka -
I'd have to agree. It bothered Bob Barr so much that he now works for the ACLU... But, I don't blame it so much on conservatives (note, not the same as Republican in most cases) as I do on the same panicy wimps that bought us political correctness. Both major parties focus way too much on promoting their own future, at our expense. Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
i'm not blaming either party. but some people would try to make you believe that one party is to blame for the current situation while the other party can do no wrong. that is, of course, totally absurd, since the govt has the ability to overturn a law just as easily as it can create one. to blame the democrats (or anyone, really) for a law is only half the story, since, if GWB doesn't push to have it overturned, he is equally to blame for the laws effects. so, i hold GWB and the current congress responsible for every law on the books. -c
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
-
Pissed you off, did he? Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
Rob Graham wrote: Pissed you off, did he? Stan knows which buttons to push :) -c
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
-
Marc Clifton wrote: And even worse, Bush's speeches are reminiscent of Hitler's regarding national security, the "invisible enemy", etc. Two more years, then maybe we can vote him out of office! I'm still not on that side of things. Bush has not gone nearly as far as Abraham Lincoln did during the Civil War to control critics of his administration (ever hear of Habeus Corpus? (sp?)). I'm still a Bush supporter even though I don't like many of the decisions he has been compelled to make. As I've said many times, if we are unable to eliminate the threat of middle eastern terrorism by direct military action, what choice does the government have but to become ever more security minded regardless of the constitution? What else is Bush supposed to do? Besides, after 50 years of trashing the constitution, those on the left have no room to complain about Bush's administration. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Stan Shannon wrote: after 50 years of trashing the constitution, those on the left have no room to complain about Bush's administration. total BS. are you willing to blame GWB for not fixing things? because, you know, GWB and pals have the opportunity, right now, to fix these things. but are they fixing anything? no. they're doing just the opposite - they're making things worse. partisan partisan partisan. total BS. -c
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
-
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: the big red machine (the original machine, not the Detroit copy) was the 8th wonder of the world. Except in 1980!!!!! Read all about it! [^] ;P ;P ;P Mike Mullikin :beer:
The goal of any programmer is to build something that will last at least until he's finished building it. - - Anonymous
Even the sun has spots ya know. But this is pretty much the only one. ;) -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
-
if we are unable to eliminate the threat of middle eastern terrorism by direct military action, what choice does the government have but to become ever more security minded regardless of the constitution? What else is Bush supposed to do? Not that this is Bush's doing, but how about putting a stop to all the money that goes to Israeli, stop supplying military equipment and aid to mid-east countries, and get out of the politics in the region? Let them fight their own damn wars. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka MuraokaIf we stop supporting Israel, they will simply be slaughtered (speaking of Hitler). And for what? So that the Palestinians can have their own country? LOL. If the Palestinians had all of Judea, they would be just as bad off as they are know. The creation of Israel was a stupid thing to do, but if we helped the Arabs destroy Israel tomorrow it would not stop the terror. This issue is not about Israel, and the sooner guys like you figure that out the better off the world will be. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
-
Stan Shannon wrote: How loudly did you complain when the federal government came for the Branch Dividians in Waco? i didn't complain at all. i was 20. i was more concerned with getting through Physics III at the time. Stan Shannon wrote: Conservatives have been complaining for decades about the lose of our traditional constitutional liberties as the left went about virtually rewriting the entire document. sure, it's someone else's fault. how long has Bush been in office? has he fixed a single thing? no, he's raised the bar on how intrusive and unaccountable government can be. if he had a "D (TX)" next to his name, you'd be in a fucking frenzy. and until the saintly, all perfect, all knowing, all seeing, brilliant godlike right does something that doesn't include bringing back COINTELPRO, implementing a big-brother police state, illegally detaining its own citizens, and otherwise ignoring all the amedments except the precious 2nd, you should shut up about the evil "left". Stan Shannon wrote: what is the first thing you would do? * push for the un-doing of PATRIOT * get the pharma welfare out of the Homeland Security bill * get the fucker who put it there fired * stop the defense work-fare (Gulf II, missile defense) * quit trying to gut the EPA (because like it or not, there's more to life than oil and power company profits - some people actually like to go outside and breathe on the weekends) * tell the media companies that they cannot have indefinite extensions on copyrights, even if it means Disney loses control of Mickey Mouse * push for meaningful campaign finance reform. stop pretending that money = speech; it doesn't, only a lawyer would claim otherwise. * get the US out of the world police job. for real. should i go on?
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
Chris Losinger wrote: i didn't complain at all. i was 20. i was more concerned with getting through Physics III at the time. Well, that's no excuse. At 20 I was serving in Vietnam (De-mining Hai Phong harbor to be precise). I damn sure had opinions. Chris Losinger wrote: sure, it's someone else's fault. how long has Bush been in office? has he fixed a single thing? no, he's raised the bar on how intrusive and unaccountable government can be. if he had a "D (TX)" next to his name, you'd be in a f***ing frenzy. and until the saintly, all perfect, all knowing, all seeing, brilliant godlike right does something that doesn't include bringing back COINTELPRO, implementing a big-brother police state, illegally detaining its own citizens, and otherwise ignoring all the amedments except the precious 2nd, you should shut up about the evil "left". I'm not defending Bush here. I don't like the man or his family. What I am saying is that "Left" (I have to use some kind of label for christ's sake) has little room to complain about abuses to the constitution. I would happily join you in any effort, up to and including and armed revolt, to re-establish proper Jeffersonian principles. Until then, the best I can do is vote for those people who are most likely to put more Antony Scalias on the bench. Chris Losinger wrote: * push for the un-doing of PATRIOT * get the pharma welfare out of the Homeland Security bill * get the f***er who put it there fired * stop the defense work-fare (Gulf II, missile defense) * quit trying to gut the EPA (because like it or not, there's more to life than oil and power company profits - some people actually like to go outside and breathe on the weekends) * tell the media companies that they cannot have indefinite extensions on copyrights, even if it means Disney loses control of Mickey Mouse * push for meaningful campaign finance reform. stop pretending that money = speech; it doesn't, only a lawyer would claim otherwise. * get the US out of the world police job. for real. So basically you're saying that you would do nothing to fulfill your primary constitutional responsibillities as Commander-in-Chief. Managing the military is about the only reason we even have a chief executive in the first place. I also oppose the Patriot Act, but at least it is an attempt to protect people's lives. If you are going to trash the constitution that's a pretty valid reason. The Pharmaceu
-
Chris Losinger wrote: i didn't complain at all. i was 20. i was more concerned with getting through Physics III at the time. Well, that's no excuse. At 20 I was serving in Vietnam (De-mining Hai Phong harbor to be precise). I damn sure had opinions. Chris Losinger wrote: sure, it's someone else's fault. how long has Bush been in office? has he fixed a single thing? no, he's raised the bar on how intrusive and unaccountable government can be. if he had a "D (TX)" next to his name, you'd be in a f***ing frenzy. and until the saintly, all perfect, all knowing, all seeing, brilliant godlike right does something that doesn't include bringing back COINTELPRO, implementing a big-brother police state, illegally detaining its own citizens, and otherwise ignoring all the amedments except the precious 2nd, you should shut up about the evil "left". I'm not defending Bush here. I don't like the man or his family. What I am saying is that "Left" (I have to use some kind of label for christ's sake) has little room to complain about abuses to the constitution. I would happily join you in any effort, up to and including and armed revolt, to re-establish proper Jeffersonian principles. Until then, the best I can do is vote for those people who are most likely to put more Antony Scalias on the bench. Chris Losinger wrote: * push for the un-doing of PATRIOT * get the pharma welfare out of the Homeland Security bill * get the f***er who put it there fired * stop the defense work-fare (Gulf II, missile defense) * quit trying to gut the EPA (because like it or not, there's more to life than oil and power company profits - some people actually like to go outside and breathe on the weekends) * tell the media companies that they cannot have indefinite extensions on copyrights, even if it means Disney loses control of Mickey Mouse * push for meaningful campaign finance reform. stop pretending that money = speech; it doesn't, only a lawyer would claim otherwise. * get the US out of the world police job. for real. So basically you're saying that you would do nothing to fulfill your primary constitutional responsibillities as Commander-in-Chief. Managing the military is about the only reason we even have a chief executive in the first place. I also oppose the Patriot Act, but at least it is an attempt to protect people's lives. If you are going to trash the constitution that's a pretty valid reason. The Pharmaceu
Stan Shannon wrote: At 20 I was serving in Vietnam (De-mining Hai Phong harbor to be precise). I damn sure had opinions. by your own choice? i opposed the war that GHB was waging at the time. i would've left the country if there was a draft. i don't support killing for oil. if you want to provide work-fare, give $200B to companies to invest in alterative energy research, instead of figthing another pointless war. Stan Shannon wrote: Managing the military is about the only reason we even have a chief executive in the first place. BS Stan Shannon wrote: If you are going to trash the constitution that's a pretty valid reason. BS. incredible BS. the biggest BS there can be. so-called "conservatives" pitch a fit at the idea of socialized health care, socialized education, but are perfectly fine with total government intervention and knowldege of every bit of their social and economic lives ? make up your mind : less government or more? you can't have it both ways. "He who chooses safety over liberty deserves neither" (or something like that). Ben Franklin. Stan Shannon wrote: And, yes, that does represent some badly needed reform in our system, but it is not a unique or recent phenomenon. so it's fine. forget it. everything's great. BS. Stan Shannon wrote: I'm sure you have a point, but people are dieing here, I should think we could put copyright issues on the back burner for a while this has been an issue for many many years. if GWB can spend time raising money and campaigning, he can spend time fixing the raping of the copyright clause. Stan Shannon wrote: Would meaningful campaing finance reform include forcing Hollywood to give a more balanced political perspective? Would the "West Wing" producers be forced to have a repulican Martin Sheen pointificate on consertive issues? oh come on. why is this a right/left issue ? is it a "left" ideal that our government should be more about the people and less about Disney? why do you insist on making everything a right cs left issue? (and why do i end up asking you this every time we have one of these threads?). campaign finance reform is about getting politics back to the people - you and me; taking it back from corporations. it's not a right/left issue. Stan Shannon wrote: Believe me, the EPA could get by on far less money