Have you ever been confronted with the Pareto principle?
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Imagine that the people who say this crap have only 80% of the DNA they need. Oh, I see you do not have to tax your imagination too hard,
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Rather, they have 4.3% too much DNA.
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I sometimes get this trash talk from upper management: You know, it only takes 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the functionality, but 80 % of the time to build the missing 20 %. Why don't you save time and go for 80 %? That's plenty enough! BECAUSE 80 % is hardly enough for anything, dammit! And if it really would only take 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the code, well, then why don't you code it for yourself? Sure, you would have to learn some programming first, but hey: It takes only 20 % of the time to learn 80 % of programming... ;-) Although, if we would agree that Pareto is in work here, it simply says there's a 80/20 relation. Granted, that would mean that you need 80 % of the time to build 20 % of the code - but who said that these are the last 20 %? Maybe it takes 80 % of the time to build the first 20 % of code and functionality, and from there on, it just flows. (That seems to be more true from my point of view; once I have the skeleton and principal layout, it get's easier to fill in the holes.) Anyone of you fellas ever had to deal with this Pareto talk? How do you handle it, what do you think about it?
That seems to be a PEBKAC problem, Sir. Why don't you go and fetch a coffee while I handle the operation?
Tell them to take a nice calm drive off an 80% completed bridge ;-)
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I sometimes get this trash talk from upper management: You know, it only takes 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the functionality, but 80 % of the time to build the missing 20 %. Why don't you save time and go for 80 %? That's plenty enough! BECAUSE 80 % is hardly enough for anything, dammit! And if it really would only take 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the code, well, then why don't you code it for yourself? Sure, you would have to learn some programming first, but hey: It takes only 20 % of the time to learn 80 % of programming... ;-) Although, if we would agree that Pareto is in work here, it simply says there's a 80/20 relation. Granted, that would mean that you need 80 % of the time to build 20 % of the code - but who said that these are the last 20 %? Maybe it takes 80 % of the time to build the first 20 % of code and functionality, and from there on, it just flows. (That seems to be more true from my point of view; once I have the skeleton and principal layout, it get's easier to fill in the holes.) Anyone of you fellas ever had to deal with this Pareto talk? How do you handle it, what do you think about it?
That seems to be a PEBKAC problem, Sir. Why don't you go and fetch a coffee while I handle the operation?
Remind them that it would only take only 20% of the management to make 80% of the dumb decisions, and the salary savings to the company would be substantial.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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witm55 wrote:
Anyone of you fellas ever had to deal with this Pareto talk? How do you handle it, what do you think about it?
They get the hint when they find the third body floating face down in a culvert, wearing only a pink tutu :suss:.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary Wheeler wrote:
They get the hint when they find the third body floating face down in a culvert, wearing only a pink tutu :suss: .
Very subtle, my friend, but I think it will only be effective if said body belonged to the working staff - as long as I keep piling up management corpses, no one will ever notice (because the work will still get done - hmmmm, maybe a little more efficient, though).
That seems to be a PEBKAC problem, Sir. Why don't you go and fetch a coffee while I handle the operation?
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I sometimes get this trash talk from upper management: You know, it only takes 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the functionality, but 80 % of the time to build the missing 20 %. Why don't you save time and go for 80 %? That's plenty enough! BECAUSE 80 % is hardly enough for anything, dammit! And if it really would only take 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the code, well, then why don't you code it for yourself? Sure, you would have to learn some programming first, but hey: It takes only 20 % of the time to learn 80 % of programming... ;-) Although, if we would agree that Pareto is in work here, it simply says there's a 80/20 relation. Granted, that would mean that you need 80 % of the time to build 20 % of the code - but who said that these are the last 20 %? Maybe it takes 80 % of the time to build the first 20 % of code and functionality, and from there on, it just flows. (That seems to be more true from my point of view; once I have the skeleton and principal layout, it get's easier to fill in the holes.) Anyone of you fellas ever had to deal with this Pareto talk? How do you handle it, what do you think about it?
That seems to be a PEBKAC problem, Sir. Why don't you go and fetch a coffee while I handle the operation?
I find that in the software I work on, it applies at approximately a user request level. i.e. 80% of the feature requests will require 20% of the time. Then there's those few things that someone requests that will take seemingly forever, like adding a column to a report that's 16 tables and joins removed from the rest of the data that's already on the report. ("What's the hold up? It's just one field!"). It's useful in these cases to be able to say "You know that 80/20 rule? Well this falls in the 20."
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I sometimes get this trash talk from upper management: You know, it only takes 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the functionality, but 80 % of the time to build the missing 20 %. Why don't you save time and go for 80 %? That's plenty enough! BECAUSE 80 % is hardly enough for anything, dammit! And if it really would only take 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the code, well, then why don't you code it for yourself? Sure, you would have to learn some programming first, but hey: It takes only 20 % of the time to learn 80 % of programming... ;-) Although, if we would agree that Pareto is in work here, it simply says there's a 80/20 relation. Granted, that would mean that you need 80 % of the time to build 20 % of the code - but who said that these are the last 20 %? Maybe it takes 80 % of the time to build the first 20 % of code and functionality, and from there on, it just flows. (That seems to be more true from my point of view; once I have the skeleton and principal layout, it get's easier to fill in the holes.) Anyone of you fellas ever had to deal with this Pareto talk? How do you handle it, what do you think about it?
That seems to be a PEBKAC problem, Sir. Why don't you go and fetch a coffee while I handle the operation?
Ahh, yes... I once used the Pareto principle while raking leaves with my son. I told him we didn't need to be perfect. If we get 80% of the leaves, the other 20% will take care of themselves: blow away or get mowed up the next time the lawn is mowed. "80% is good enough" I told him. Later that day, my son tried the same principle with his mom while cleaning his room. Well, you can imagine how that went over. She made her point to the whole family later by only cooking dinner for 80% of the time, because "80% is good enough". No. 80% is not good enough.
-NP Never underestimate the creativity of the end-user.
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Rather, they have 4.3% too much DNA.
:thumbsup:
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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Ahh, yes... I once used the Pareto principle while raking leaves with my son. I told him we didn't need to be perfect. If we get 80% of the leaves, the other 20% will take care of themselves: blow away or get mowed up the next time the lawn is mowed. "80% is good enough" I told him. Later that day, my son tried the same principle with his mom while cleaning his room. Well, you can imagine how that went over. She made her point to the whole family later by only cooking dinner for 80% of the time, because "80% is good enough". No. 80% is not good enough.
-NP Never underestimate the creativity of the end-user.
NickPace wrote:
Later that day, my son tried the same principle with his mom while cleaning his room. Well, you can imagine how that went over. She made her point to the whole family later by only cooking dinner for 80% of the time, because "80% is good enough".
No. 80% is not good enough.It is if you're having steak every night. ;P
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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NickPace wrote:
Later that day, my son tried the same principle with his mom while cleaning his room. Well, you can imagine how that went over. She made her point to the whole family later by only cooking dinner for 80% of the time, because "80% is good enough".
No. 80% is not good enough.It is if you're having steak every night. ;P
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I sometimes get this trash talk from upper management: You know, it only takes 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the functionality, but 80 % of the time to build the missing 20 %. Why don't you save time and go for 80 %? That's plenty enough! BECAUSE 80 % is hardly enough for anything, dammit! And if it really would only take 20 % of the time to build 80 % of the code, well, then why don't you code it for yourself? Sure, you would have to learn some programming first, but hey: It takes only 20 % of the time to learn 80 % of programming... ;-) Although, if we would agree that Pareto is in work here, it simply says there's a 80/20 relation. Granted, that would mean that you need 80 % of the time to build 20 % of the code - but who said that these are the last 20 %? Maybe it takes 80 % of the time to build the first 20 % of code and functionality, and from there on, it just flows. (That seems to be more true from my point of view; once I have the skeleton and principal layout, it get's easier to fill in the holes.) Anyone of you fellas ever had to deal with this Pareto talk? How do you handle it, what do you think about it?
That seems to be a PEBKAC problem, Sir. Why don't you go and fetch a coffee while I handle the operation?
I've always lived by the principle that it takes 80% of the time allotted to complete the first 20% of the project, but another 80% of the time to complete the remaining 80% of the project.
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I've always lived by the principle that it takes 80% of the time allotted to complete the first 20% of the project, but another 80% of the time to complete the remaining 80% of the project.
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I always heard it was 80% of the time for the first 20%, the next 80% of the time was for the next 20% of the project, etc... So that works out to 100% of the project for 400% of the time. Which is why I always multiply my estimates by a factor of 4.
Reminds me of Scotty from the original Enterprise, as in this old joke: "Captain, the core got damaged. We need 4 days to repair it!" "Scotty, I give you 4 hours!" "Okay, Captain, I make do in 2 hours!"
That seems to be a PEBKAC problem, Sir. Why don't you go and fetch a coffee while I handle the operation?