progress bar - why???
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Not if it is a silent track...
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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Hey! Our customer wants a progress bar for the transmission of messages (which is done by the services on the server...). Why do people need progress bars? don't they believe the computer is actually working? I start to hate this stuff. Why do people need indicators for a device running when it is obvious? My wife got a new computer (Dell AllinOne 23") which has a giant, annoying blue light on the power supply plug. My computer has a LED at the WLAN-Device on the backside of the machine. WTF - who cares for a light on the backside of the computer under the table? My NAS is blinking like lightning when one of us is accessing some data. Why? No one even sees this as the NAS is standing in the basement. The light is totally annoying - I don't need to switch lights on in the basement when the NAS is running. My TV has a LED to show that it's on. It usually shows the TV-program too when it's on - so why does it need a light indicating that it's on? My toaster got a LED to show it's on. My mixer has a light to show it's on. Even the fridge has a LED. I'm actually waiting for a lamp with a LED indicating that it's on.
regards Torsten I never finish anyth...
Reminds me of that Simpsons when Homer became an inventor. He invented the "Everythings OK Alarm." Homer - "THIS ALARM..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "WILL CONTINUE..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "TO GO OFF..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "AS LONG AS..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "EVERYTHING..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "IS OK!" ALARM - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" But I agree with most people here. Indicators are useful. Some may seem pointless to you. But that is likely because you have yet had to troubleshoot it not working. I do understand your point though. In many cases it is highly ineffective to add progress bars as it hurts the performance. I had a system once that did a lot of number crunching. At my fault the algorithm was not ideal at first and the users complained about responce time and wanted a progress bar. So I added it (just want to point out at this point I was very much Jr. at this time). Eventually I caught the flaw in my algorithm and adjusted it. Much faster but I remember thinking, what the heck it still seems kinda slow. Caught rid of the progress bar and blamo it was not even noticable. Lesson learned: Give the EUs what they need for updating, but always go back and double check if it is still needed. This goes for more than just the progress bar. Running out of realstate space. "What the heck is this checkbox?". Hmmm looks like it some some business logic but is eventually dropped. A little digging shows it 'was' a requirement but was changed to be a enum combo selector else where on the UI.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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Hey! Our customer wants a progress bar for the transmission of messages (which is done by the services on the server...). Why do people need progress bars? don't they believe the computer is actually working? I start to hate this stuff. Why do people need indicators for a device running when it is obvious? My wife got a new computer (Dell AllinOne 23") which has a giant, annoying blue light on the power supply plug. My computer has a LED at the WLAN-Device on the backside of the machine. WTF - who cares for a light on the backside of the computer under the table? My NAS is blinking like lightning when one of us is accessing some data. Why? No one even sees this as the NAS is standing in the basement. The light is totally annoying - I don't need to switch lights on in the basement when the NAS is running. My TV has a LED to show that it's on. It usually shows the TV-program too when it's on - so why does it need a light indicating that it's on? My toaster got a LED to show it's on. My mixer has a light to show it's on. Even the fridge has a LED. I'm actually waiting for a lamp with a LED indicating that it's on.
regards Torsten I never finish anyth...
There's so many things that can go wrong when software is involved, a simple LED isn't sufficient to indicate the current state. E. g. if the LED isn't on, it might mean any of the following: - there's nothing to transfer (i. e. all is well) - the transfer has already completed (and it was so fast you missed out on the 1/100th second it was actually on) - the LED is defective - the software isn't properly activating the LED, but otherwise working fine - the software is broken - the hardware is broken - the network is broken - the server isn't responding - you're blind :cool: OTOH is the LED is on, it might mean - transferring (i. e. all is well) - hanging - the LED is defective - the software isn't properly deactivating the LED, but otherwise working fine - the software is broken - the hardware is broken - the network is broken - the server isn't responding A progress bar can offer a lot more information: if it keeps updating, this indicates: - the task is, in fact, progressing - in particular it doesn't hang, even if it is taking longer than you expected - your software, hardware, and network is fine - server is working as well - you get a rough estimate of how long it will take to finish (provided the bar is non-cyclic) It is much more unlikely that there is a problem with the progress bar when it does indicate progress. OTOH if it doesn't progress, it's not so much different from the LED ;)
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Reminds me of that Simpsons when Homer became an inventor. He invented the "Everythings OK Alarm." Homer - "THIS ALARM..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "WILL CONTINUE..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "TO GO OFF..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "AS LONG AS..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "EVERYTHING..." Alarm - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" Homer - "IS OK!" ALARM - "BEEEEEP BEEEP" But I agree with most people here. Indicators are useful. Some may seem pointless to you. But that is likely because you have yet had to troubleshoot it not working. I do understand your point though. In many cases it is highly ineffective to add progress bars as it hurts the performance. I had a system once that did a lot of number crunching. At my fault the algorithm was not ideal at first and the users complained about responce time and wanted a progress bar. So I added it (just want to point out at this point I was very much Jr. at this time). Eventually I caught the flaw in my algorithm and adjusted it. Much faster but I remember thinking, what the heck it still seems kinda slow. Caught rid of the progress bar and blamo it was not even noticable. Lesson learned: Give the EUs what they need for updating, but always go back and double check if it is still needed. This goes for more than just the progress bar. Running out of realstate space. "What the heck is this checkbox?". Hmmm looks like it some some business logic but is eventually dropped. A little digging shows it 'was' a requirement but was changed to be a enum combo selector else where on the UI.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Collin Jasnoch wrote:
I had a system once that did a lot of number crunching. At my fault the algorithm was not ideal at first and the users complained about responce time and wanted a progress bar.
A previous system I worked on had a process or report that took about 10 minutes to run. Had done for years. We then got it down to under a minute. Users complained. They liked to be able to kick it off running then go outside for a cigarette while it did so. We had stolen a smoke break from them.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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You regularly change the volume when listening to blank CDs do you?
============================== Nothing to say.
No, but if it is a silent track (and they do exist : 4'33"[^] and "Three Minutes of Silence" - can't find a reference quickly) you might not realize and assume the volume is not up high enough.
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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The customer is not always right. The customer is able to ask for wired stuff that doesn't make sense. Check this: http://clientsfromhell.net/[^] - the link was posted today by someone here. Nice one.
regards Torsten I never finish anyth...
My take on this is: The customer is always right. If you want to keep them as a customer then do it their way. If you don't want to do it their way, then drop them as a client. If I want to keep my customer's business and they want their forms to be hot pink, then guess what? Pink it is. Progress bars galore. Stupid shite will be the order of the day.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
No, but if it is a silent track (and they do exist : 4'33"[^] and "Three Minutes of Silence" - can't find a reference quickly) you might not realize and assume the volume is not up high enough.
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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My take on this is: The customer is always right. If you want to keep them as a customer then do it their way. If you don't want to do it their way, then drop them as a client. If I want to keep my customer's business and they want their forms to be hot pink, then guess what? Pink it is. Progress bars galore. Stupid shite will be the order of the day.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
Is it just me who has to have the volume on an even number?
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
It's just you. I think. Damnit, I'll have to look now!:~
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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Hey! Our customer wants a progress bar for the transmission of messages (which is done by the services on the server...). Why do people need progress bars? don't they believe the computer is actually working? I start to hate this stuff. Why do people need indicators for a device running when it is obvious? My wife got a new computer (Dell AllinOne 23") which has a giant, annoying blue light on the power supply plug. My computer has a LED at the WLAN-Device on the backside of the machine. WTF - who cares for a light on the backside of the computer under the table? My NAS is blinking like lightning when one of us is accessing some data. Why? No one even sees this as the NAS is standing in the basement. The light is totally annoying - I don't need to switch lights on in the basement when the NAS is running. My TV has a LED to show that it's on. It usually shows the TV-program too when it's on - so why does it need a light indicating that it's on? My toaster got a LED to show it's on. My mixer has a light to show it's on. Even the fridge has a LED. I'm actually waiting for a lamp with a LED indicating that it's on.
regards Torsten I never finish anyth...
TorstenH. wrote:
My TV has a LED to show that it's on.
Oddly, I've a Samsung TV and it's got what I guess you would call a stand-by light. When the light is off, the TV is on and when the light is on, the TV is off. Oh and when the TV is switching states, the light flickers. One day for amusement, I'll see how much power it draws in stand-by mode. Hope it won't be a surprise. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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Is it just me who has to have the volume on an even number?
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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It doesn't have to be even (5s are generally also ok, and 9, and less so multiples of 3), but I definitely prefer some numbers to others.
Yeah, I can cope with 5s too. Acceptable numbers for volume are 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 25 28 30 32 35 38 and so on. My missus only accepts even numbers so we have a battle of wills over the mid 20s. Erm, how do you spell OCD again?
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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Is it just me who has to have the volume on an even number?
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
No, it's not just you, although I don't really give it any thought, I usually just adjust to an even number rather than an odd one.
Pete
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Yeah, I can cope with 5s too. Acceptable numbers for volume are 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 25 28 30 32 35 38 and so on. My missus only accepts even numbers so we have a battle of wills over the mid 20s. Erm, how do you spell OCD again?
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
CDO
Pete
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CDO
Pete
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Is it just me who has to have the volume on an even number?
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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Hey! Our customer wants a progress bar for the transmission of messages (which is done by the services on the server...). Why do people need progress bars? don't they believe the computer is actually working? I start to hate this stuff. Why do people need indicators for a device running when it is obvious? My wife got a new computer (Dell AllinOne 23") which has a giant, annoying blue light on the power supply plug. My computer has a LED at the WLAN-Device on the backside of the machine. WTF - who cares for a light on the backside of the computer under the table? My NAS is blinking like lightning when one of us is accessing some data. Why? No one even sees this as the NAS is standing in the basement. The light is totally annoying - I don't need to switch lights on in the basement when the NAS is running. My TV has a LED to show that it's on. It usually shows the TV-program too when it's on - so why does it need a light indicating that it's on? My toaster got a LED to show it's on. My mixer has a light to show it's on. Even the fridge has a LED. I'm actually waiting for a lamp with a LED indicating that it's on.
regards Torsten I never finish anyth...
Sorry but had to down-vote your rant (you forgot the rant emoticon btw! :)) because it really doesn't make sense at all. Let's use an example: "Wow, I ran that file copy from the network to my drive 10 minutes ago and it's still not done". (Yes it's a cheap example, but an easy one to pick apart.) In your world we couldn't check the progress bar or the mouse cursor to see if the copy process is moving forward (albeit maybe slowly, could it be a network issue???), nor could we look at the Network port to see if there's a constant data stream, nor could we look at the harddrive light to see if there was any constant activity. Therefore, in your world, we could either wait (and wait, and wait), or have to kill a running process (which can lead to other issues depending on OS, on if it's a shared user in multi-user environment, etc..). In your world, there is no indicator of whether we actually still have a network connection (who needs that icon flashing on the task bar, or the lights on the network card???), nor whether our computer's WiFi hardware is actually enabled (who needs that LED on the laptop's keyboard???). So, I can't agree with your rant. We need these indicators to allow us to diagnose potential issues with our machines. Thanks for the debate starter, though! :thumbsup: -EM
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ChrisElston wrote:
Is it just me who has to have the volume on an even number?
Nah, its just you. I have my 100W Peavey valve amp on 11! :-D
============================== Nothing to say.
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You may not. Because as you see from the picture in my link, the LED is situated right somewhere in between the internal air suction valve and I cannot put a tape or anything on there. I was even thinking of opening it up and cutting the wire that supplies power to the LED, but that would have voided my warranty. Either ways, it was a stupid thing that they've designed. I can accept a led on a tv or even a blender, but this thing has to stay on while I may sleep and I couldn't accept it illuminating the whole room.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
