Schools ....
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Whichever campaign I have seen till date in US mentions poor state of schools. Why is it that despite so much interest there is apparently no change in the school system? ... or is it just election crap to create an issue that does not exist? :confused: My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
u know i wondered such things til i moved here ... i thought other countries were very bad at service level stuff in general and i thought the states would be "the crown jewel" ... ha! what a joke i think 3rd world africa is better at resolving problems and dealing with responsibility generally than here if the usps is anything to go by al quaeda and saddam and the rest can save their bombs ... the whole place will implode on its own in the not too distant future
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me -
u know i wondered such things til i moved here ... i thought other countries were very bad at service level stuff in general and i thought the states would be "the crown jewel" ... ha! what a joke i think 3rd world africa is better at resolving problems and dealing with responsibility generally than here if the usps is anything to go by al quaeda and saddam and the rest can save their bombs ... the whole place will implode on its own in the not too distant future
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about melauren wrote: if the usps is anything to go by al quaeda and saddam and the rest can save their bombs ... the whole place will implode on its own in the not too distant future What's that supposed to mean? Jeremy Falcon Imputek Excrement escapes everyone - even elders.
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Whichever campaign I have seen till date in US mentions poor state of schools. Why is it that despite so much interest there is apparently no change in the school system? ... or is it just election crap to create an issue that does not exist? :confused: My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
US children test scores are those of third world countries. Why is this? Because for the most part, the government dictates how tax dollars are to be spent at in the public school system. You therefore have government involved in pedagogical issues, which is no place for gov't. I read a statistic somewhere that said that for every dollar invested per child, the amount that actually goes directly to the child's education (material, teacher salary, etc), is less than 1 cent. There's a lot of overhead, a lot of BS, and a lot of "we don't care" attitude on the part of many (not all) teachers. What's worse, everyone seems to think that technology is the answer, so a lot of money goes into computers and other things worthless to real education (I'm talking Kindergarten to junior highschool level here. Highschool, yes, I can see the benefit of computers). Another factor is that schools (like in California) get state money based on the student's test scores. This affects teacher salaries. Therefore, teachers try to migrate to higher paid jobs which are of course in the areas of the country that are more affluent, have a better home life for the child, better nutrition, etc. As a result, the "poor" schools are left with, basically, the sh*tty teachers. Any freshman economics student could have told you that's what would happen. Those are just a few of the reasons. The gov't should get out of pedagogy and needs to seriously reform its funding of public schools. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka -
lauren wrote: if the usps is anything to go by al quaeda and saddam and the rest can save their bombs ... the whole place will implode on its own in the not too distant future What's that supposed to mean? Jeremy Falcon Imputek Excrement escapes everyone - even elders.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: What's that supposed to mean? I think she's just venting: One grossly exagerated, blanket expectation on the positive side being replaced by a grossly exagerated, blanket expectation on the negative side. :) -- Russell Morris "Have you gone mad Frink? Put down that science pole!"
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lauren wrote: if the usps is anything to go by al quaeda and saddam and the rest can save their bombs ... the whole place will implode on its own in the not too distant future What's that supposed to mean? Jeremy Falcon Imputek Excrement escapes everyone - even elders.
well it means what it says i sent 2 packages overseas long b4 xmas ... neither have arrived ... no info 5 letters were sent to me ... none have arrived ... no info worse ... nobody is responsible ... nobody can put me thru to some who is ... and nobody seems to actually understand anything about anything that lies outside the united states
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me -
Jeremy Falcon wrote: What's that supposed to mean? I think she's just venting: One grossly exagerated, blanket expectation on the positive side being replaced by a grossly exagerated, blanket expectation on the negative side. :) -- Russell Morris "Have you gone mad Frink? Put down that science pole!"
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well it means what it says i sent 2 packages overseas long b4 xmas ... neither have arrived ... no info 5 letters were sent to me ... none have arrived ... no info worse ... nobody is responsible ... nobody can put me thru to some who is ... and nobody seems to actually understand anything about anything that lies outside the united states
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about melauren wrote: i sent 2 packages overseas long b4 xmas ... neither have arrived ... no info 5 letters were sent to me ... none have arrived ... no info ..and what makes you so sure it wasn't the "overseas" postal service?? Not that the US postal service is so great, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
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Whichever campaign I have seen till date in US mentions poor state of schools. Why is it that despite so much interest there is apparently no change in the school system? ... or is it just election crap to create an issue that does not exist? :confused: My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
One more thing (see previous post) Another major contributing factor is homelife. US children watch more telivision per week than any other country, and the television to homework ratio is like 2:1 or 3:1. Parents, if not single or divorced, are usually both working, and neither have time to sufficiently devote to their children. Education, when public schools were created, was intended to supplement home life. Now, school is more like a big prison your send your kids to so they have something to do. But the point here is that parents seem to be putting the entire onus of education onto the educational system. I see so many parents that have no concept of their responsibility in their child's education. Why they even had children is amazing to me. I believe in the original charter--I am my child's primary teacher, and the school is there to fill in the gaps. BTW, I have an 11 year old son. He's been going to a Waldorf school since Kindergarten. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka -
lauren wrote: i sent 2 packages overseas long b4 xmas ... neither have arrived ... no info 5 letters were sent to me ... none have arrived ... no info ..and what makes you so sure it wasn't the "overseas" postal service?? Not that the US postal service is so great, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
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lauren wrote: i sent 2 packages overseas long b4 xmas ... neither have arrived ... no info 5 letters were sent to me ... none have arrived ... no info ..and what makes you so sure it wasn't the "overseas" postal service?? Not that the US postal service is so great, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
Mike Mullikin wrote: ..and what makes you so sure it wasn't the "overseas" postal service?? Actually, from my experiences, and from what I've heard from people who've lived overseas, this is probably the case. I knew somebody who lived in Mali (west Africa) who said never to send packages, because the postal service there has a tendency to open them up and see if anything good is inside... X| Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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well it means what it says i sent 2 packages overseas long b4 xmas ... neither have arrived ... no info 5 letters were sent to me ... none have arrived ... no info worse ... nobody is responsible ... nobody can put me thru to some who is ... and nobody seems to actually understand anything about anything that lies outside the united states
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about melauren wrote: well it means what it says i sent 2 packages overseas long b4 xmas ... neither have arrived ... no info 5 letters were sent to me ... none have arrived ... no info Yikes! The best thing about the USPS is FedEx (or DFL for overseas...) -- Russell Morris "Have you gone mad Frink? Put down that science pole!"
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One more thing (see previous post) Another major contributing factor is homelife. US children watch more telivision per week than any other country, and the television to homework ratio is like 2:1 or 3:1. Parents, if not single or divorced, are usually both working, and neither have time to sufficiently devote to their children. Education, when public schools were created, was intended to supplement home life. Now, school is more like a big prison your send your kids to so they have something to do. But the point here is that parents seem to be putting the entire onus of education onto the educational system. I see so many parents that have no concept of their responsibility in their child's education. Why they even had children is amazing to me. I believe in the original charter--I am my child's primary teacher, and the school is there to fill in the gaps. BTW, I have an 11 year old son. He's been going to a Waldorf school since Kindergarten. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka -
Whichever campaign I have seen till date in US mentions poor state of schools. Why is it that despite so much interest there is apparently no change in the school system? ... or is it just election crap to create an issue that does not exist? :confused: My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
The first thing to understand about a US politician's obbsession with schools is that none of them actually want to do anything about it. What they want is the "credit" for doing something about it. If they were to actually do something about it, they would need to: 1. Intelligently spend money 2. Hold parents responsible 3. Come up with good basic plans and stick with them 4. Hold teachers responsible 5. Stop spending time and money on students that truly don't want to learn 6. Hold administrators responsible 7. Make higher education more affordable 8. Hold themselves responsible No politician I've ever heard of anywhere on the planet is capable of doing these simple 8 steps (especially #8). Thus we are left with a bunch of scumbags who want to complain about schools, give the illusion of actually doing something and take the credit for any jump in test scores (caused by dumbing down the test). Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
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The first thing to understand about a US politician's obbsession with schools is that none of them actually want to do anything about it. What they want is the "credit" for doing something about it. If they were to actually do something about it, they would need to: 1. Intelligently spend money 2. Hold parents responsible 3. Come up with good basic plans and stick with them 4. Hold teachers responsible 5. Stop spending time and money on students that truly don't want to learn 6. Hold administrators responsible 7. Make higher education more affordable 8. Hold themselves responsible No politician I've ever heard of anywhere on the planet is capable of doing these simple 8 steps (especially #8). Thus we are left with a bunch of scumbags who want to complain about schools, give the illusion of actually doing something and take the credit for any jump in test scores (caused by dumbing down the test). Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
because of the emphasis on mandatory test scores, Vermont's governor has recently considered rejecting federal funds. i wish more states were like Vermont (or Montana, which rejects Federal highway money because of the speed limit issue). -c
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
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US children test scores are those of third world countries. Why is this? Because for the most part, the government dictates how tax dollars are to be spent at in the public school system. You therefore have government involved in pedagogical issues, which is no place for gov't. I read a statistic somewhere that said that for every dollar invested per child, the amount that actually goes directly to the child's education (material, teacher salary, etc), is less than 1 cent. There's a lot of overhead, a lot of BS, and a lot of "we don't care" attitude on the part of many (not all) teachers. What's worse, everyone seems to think that technology is the answer, so a lot of money goes into computers and other things worthless to real education (I'm talking Kindergarten to junior highschool level here. Highschool, yes, I can see the benefit of computers). Another factor is that schools (like in California) get state money based on the student's test scores. This affects teacher salaries. Therefore, teachers try to migrate to higher paid jobs which are of course in the areas of the country that are more affluent, have a better home life for the child, better nutrition, etc. As a result, the "poor" schools are left with, basically, the sh*tty teachers. Any freshman economics student could have told you that's what would happen. Those are just a few of the reasons. The gov't should get out of pedagogy and needs to seriously reform its funding of public schools. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka1 cent per $1? My local district operates on a budget (this year) of around $110 million. Of that, around $75 million is the education fund, which pays teacher salaries, benefits, classroom supplies, textbooks, etc. $12 million or so is operations, and the rest is transportation (busses), debt payment, and other stuff. So, rougly two orders of magnitude off from your numbers. Jeff Sand jsand at interaccess dot com
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US children test scores are those of third world countries. Why is this? Because for the most part, the government dictates how tax dollars are to be spent at in the public school system. You therefore have government involved in pedagogical issues, which is no place for gov't. I read a statistic somewhere that said that for every dollar invested per child, the amount that actually goes directly to the child's education (material, teacher salary, etc), is less than 1 cent. There's a lot of overhead, a lot of BS, and a lot of "we don't care" attitude on the part of many (not all) teachers. What's worse, everyone seems to think that technology is the answer, so a lot of money goes into computers and other things worthless to real education (I'm talking Kindergarten to junior highschool level here. Highschool, yes, I can see the benefit of computers). Another factor is that schools (like in California) get state money based on the student's test scores. This affects teacher salaries. Therefore, teachers try to migrate to higher paid jobs which are of course in the areas of the country that are more affluent, have a better home life for the child, better nutrition, etc. As a result, the "poor" schools are left with, basically, the sh*tty teachers. Any freshman economics student could have told you that's what would happen. Those are just a few of the reasons. The gov't should get out of pedagogy and needs to seriously reform its funding of public schools. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka MuraokaBut, I think that is the state of public schools in most places. Teachers do not care much about educating - and children, at an early age, may not really grasp the imprtance of education. Like you said before, it boils down to the parents taking responsibility of the child. I am lucky to have parents, who took the responsibility seriously. Respecting teachers, even when they may not be upto the mark, was very important to them. The paradox is public schools paying high (or public schools even existing) in affluent areas. Government is supposed to provide basic services only when it is uneconomical for a private organization to provide the same thing at an affordable price. The final question: How can a better distribution of good teachers be achieved? ... or is it that the education system is quite alright (people never seem to be satisfies with what they have :-D), and parents need to take responsibility of the child's progress? Thomas My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
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One more thing (see previous post) Another major contributing factor is homelife. US children watch more telivision per week than any other country, and the television to homework ratio is like 2:1 or 3:1. Parents, if not single or divorced, are usually both working, and neither have time to sufficiently devote to their children. Education, when public schools were created, was intended to supplement home life. Now, school is more like a big prison your send your kids to so they have something to do. But the point here is that parents seem to be putting the entire onus of education onto the educational system. I see so many parents that have no concept of their responsibility in their child's education. Why they even had children is amazing to me. I believe in the original charter--I am my child's primary teacher, and the school is there to fill in the gaps. BTW, I have an 11 year old son. He's been going to a Waldorf school since Kindergarten. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka MuraokaMarc Clifton wrote: I am my child's primary teacher, and the school is there to fill in the gaps. The problem here is that they are not 'filling in the gaps'. - My child comes home with work to do that is NOT issued homework, but rather work that was not completed in class. What is this teaching our kids? It is teaching them that they can fluff off in school and take up family time to complete their work. What happens when they get into the word and find out that, when the boss says he wants it on his desk by 4pm you can't turn in your work the next day. - My child comes home with home work that has instructions that can confuse even me sometimes. Do this, do that, put this here but only on alternate Thursdays... I even have found things like word puzzles with spelling errors in them or omitted words. - Why can I not check up on my Childs progress via the web? I'll tell you why... Because 90% of the teachers I speak with in his school are completely computer illiterate and probably don't even know what the web is. - Why can't I go to the web and get a list of my Childs home work for each day? See above… They require that the child bring it home every day. I am sorry, but I am not going to stand over my kid with a rubber hose and force him to 'fess up' that he has homework. If he says that he forgot it, then he forgot it. If it makes it home I will make sure it gets done. If I could go somewhere and get it when he forgets it I would, but I should not have to chase down some kid in his class to get photocopies of it when the kid leaves it at school. He should not be able to leave it at school in the first place. - Each year my child is in class I go into the classroom to visit with the teacher and the first thing I do is pick up the classroom dictionary and try to find the word Internet. It has never been in there. My child in in 7th grade. For crying out loud, is it too much to ask that the schools enter the 90's? - Each day my child spends an equal amount to time moving from class to class, etc.. Than he does in class. Why is that? - I had to get my child classified as learning disabled just so I could get him into a better (smaller class) when he is NOT learning disabled (has above average IQ). This pearl of advice came directly from the school administration. (and yes, even with a smaller class he is still allowed to leave without his homework) Al this, and I am considered to be in one of the top school systems in the area….. I could go on for hours wi
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The first thing to understand about a US politician's obbsession with schools is that none of them actually want to do anything about it. What they want is the "credit" for doing something about it. If they were to actually do something about it, they would need to: 1. Intelligently spend money 2. Hold parents responsible 3. Come up with good basic plans and stick with them 4. Hold teachers responsible 5. Stop spending time and money on students that truly don't want to learn 6. Hold administrators responsible 7. Make higher education more affordable 8. Hold themselves responsible No politician I've ever heard of anywhere on the planet is capable of doing these simple 8 steps (especially #8). Thus we are left with a bunch of scumbags who want to complain about schools, give the illusion of actually doing something and take the credit for any jump in test scores (caused by dumbing down the test). Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
Mike Mullikin wrote: Hold teachers responsible YES! Mike Mullikin wrote: Stop spending time and money on students that truly don't want to learn YES! Mike Mullikin wrote: Hold administrators responsible YES! Mike Mullikin wrote: Make higher education more affordable YES! I would vote for this guy!
Paul Watson wrote: "At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote: "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
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Whichever campaign I have seen till date in US mentions poor state of schools. Why is it that despite so much interest there is apparently no change in the school system? ... or is it just election crap to create an issue that does not exist? :confused: My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
Thomas George wrote: Why is it that despite so much interest there is apparently no change in the school system? ... or is it just election crap to create an issue that does not exist? Several reasons, IMHO: - Quality of education varies wildly across the country, with larger cities often suffering from overcrowding and associated problems quite badly. This brings down the average, making us all look worse. - Interest != motivation. Think "The Simpsons" - how many times does Mrs. Lovejoy yell "Won't someone please think about the children"... Now, how often does she actually do anything? - It's the perfect campaign issue, as when it comes right down to it, the gov't can't do much about it anyway, but pouring money or legislation into it makes them look like they care. And if the parents are willing to be lulled into believing they can ship their kids off and this black box of a school will automagically turn them into intelligent, productive members of society... well, what politician would argue!
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Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
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well it means what it says i sent 2 packages overseas long b4 xmas ... neither have arrived ... no info 5 letters were sent to me ... none have arrived ... no info worse ... nobody is responsible ... nobody can put me thru to some who is ... and nobody seems to actually understand anything about anything that lies outside the united states
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about meInteresting... I've always found that anything sent (not using couriers) from the US to the UK take 7 or less days; anything I send from the UK to the US takes 3-6 weeks. [edit]And yet when I was in Illinois waiting for some mail from within Illinois, it took 10 days :laugh:[/edit] Paul Pleasently caving in, I come undone - Queens of the Stone Age, No One Knows