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  4. Global warming 'confirmed' by independent study

Global warming 'confirmed' by independent study

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Back Room
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  • L Lost User

    Science is willing to admit its limitations; you, not being a scientist, not knowing any scientists, having no relevant education, and not being accountable in the slightest for your empty opinions, are not.

    - F

    L Offline
    L Offline
    Lost User
    wrote on last edited by
    #111

    Fisticuffs wrote:

    Science is willing to admit its limitations;

    And yet encourage the implementation of policy based on that understanding. Which you will find is the principle objectionof the sceptics.

    Fisticuffs wrote:

    not being a scientist

    No, I am an engineer (Mech Aero and Software), who applies logic to all problems.

    Fisticuffs wrote:

    not knowing any scientists

    Really? :)

    Fisticuffs wrote:

    having no relevant education

    This rules out Einstein then, no?

    Fisticuffs wrote:

    and not being accountable in the slightest for your empty opinions

    Unfortunately the scientists behind the AGW scam are not either.

    Fisticuffs wrote:

    are not

    Since I am not a scientist of course I don't have to admit to sceintific limitations. I see logic has failed you there. :)

    ============================== Nothing to say.

    S 1 Reply Last reply
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    • L Lost User

      Chiropractic is B.S. when they do things like 1) sell homeopathy, vitamins and other crap 2) perform cervical manipulations (especially without giving due informed consent for risk of vertebral artery dissection and stroke) 3) advise on medical issues unrelated to their field, such as alternative vaccination schedules or eschewing vaccinations etc. 4) offer routine 'adjustments' and diagnose 'subluxations' 5) imply that 'disease is based in the spine' etc. Chiropractic is evidence based when they 6) perform spinal manipulation for lower back pain And that's about it. Pseudodoctors with 4 year pseudodegrees practicing pseudomedicine for gullible patients with big wallets. Spinal manipulation could just as easily be done by physiotherapists without all the hullaballoo.

      - F

      L Offline
      L Offline
      Lost User
      wrote on last edited by
      #112

      Fisticuffs wrote:

      sell homeopathy

      Thats a homeopath, not a chirppractor. In fact the AECC does not teach homeopathy.

      Fisticuffs wrote:

      vitamins

      I see, so vitamins are crap are they? Lack of Ascorbic acide does not cause scurvy, vitamin D rickets? Have you published any papers on this or are your opinions just empty?

      Fisticuffs wrote:

      perform cervical manipulations (especially without giving due informed consent for risk of vertebral artery dissection and stroke)

      Malpractice is unfortunately common in all medical fields but does not negate its efficacy.

      Fisticuffs wrote:

      advise on medical issues unrelated to their field, such as alternative vaccination schedules or eschewing vaccinations

      Not taught by the AECC.

      Fisticuffs wrote:

      offer routine 'adjustments' and diagnose 'subluxations'

      Entirely necessary and beneficial in many cases.

      Fisticuffs wrote:

      imply that 'disease is based in the spine'
      etc.

      This is not taught by the AECC.

      Fisticuffs wrote:

      Spinal manipulation could just as easily be done by physiotherapists

      And very effective they are too.

      ============================== Nothing to say.

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      • L Lost User

        Erudite__Eric wrote:

        So you have no opinoins worth anything about anything other than what you have studied

        That's correct.

        - F

        L Offline
        L Offline
        Lost User
        wrote on last edited by
        #113

        You must be a riveting conversatinalist...

        ============================== Nothing to say.

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        • J jschell

          harold aptroot wrote:

          It matters a lot where the money comes from; if it has to come form the govt then it's bad because that means they'll economize on health care and education, but if it comes directly from people there's really no change.

          It DOES NOT MATTER. You might think that one just prints more money and that is how governments pay for stuff but that is NOT how it works. Money is a representational fiction for the real economic manifestation in the modern world. The bigger something it is the more it it 'costs' the economy to create it.

          L Offline
          L Offline
          Lost User
          wrote on last edited by
          #114

          What the hell what kind of economy did you have in highschool?

          jschell wrote:

          You might think that one just prints more money and that is how governments pay for stuff but that is NOT how it works.

          In the US it works that way, and that's why the country is being demoted to 3rd world. Good luck with that. Here in the EU there's only so much the govt the can spend, and they're already spending all of it so anything extra will mean leaving sick people to die and breeding a generation that didn't receive any education worth mentioning - because that's what this stupid backwards rightwing govt likes. If people pay direct instead of through tax, they just have a couple of euro's less savings or in extreme cases maybe they'll cancel their vacation to Spain. But neither of that would happen, electricity companies can't afford to raise prices unless they start price fixing.

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          • L Lost User

            Fisticuffs wrote:

            Science is willing to admit its limitations;

            And yet encourage the implementation of policy based on that understanding. Which you will find is the principle objectionof the sceptics.

            Fisticuffs wrote:

            not being a scientist

            No, I am an engineer (Mech Aero and Software), who applies logic to all problems.

            Fisticuffs wrote:

            not knowing any scientists

            Really? :)

            Fisticuffs wrote:

            having no relevant education

            This rules out Einstein then, no?

            Fisticuffs wrote:

            and not being accountable in the slightest for your empty opinions

            Unfortunately the scientists behind the AGW scam are not either.

            Fisticuffs wrote:

            are not

            Since I am not a scientist of course I don't have to admit to sceintific limitations. I see logic has failed you there. :)

            ============================== Nothing to say.

            S Offline
            S Offline
            soap brain
            wrote on last edited by
            #115

            Erudite__Eric wrote:

            This rules out Einstein then, no?

            I'm going to have to stop you there. Albert Einstein was awarded a PhD in physics in 1905 by the University of Zurich.

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            • J jschell

              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

              Directory of Technology for some very large company is approached by 2 very smart engineers. The engineers both have a similar idea about media storage. The director recals that engineer 1 has a really hot wife and would like to have dinner with them. Aproves engineer 1 request and says "Lets talk about it over dinner with the wives shall we?

              Specious. In any number of ways. First overall market demands are not driven by a single decision in any way shape or form. Second normally on average in the scenario you depicted there is no real right answer. The two presentations will not have a specific winner. Thus one is about the same as the other. When there is a significantly and obviously better solution your fantasy 'Director' will make the right decision because there is a reason that person is a 'Director' in the first place. Or perhaps you are just claiming that everyone making any significant decision is absolutely corrupt and absolutely stupid.

              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

              Tiny garage start up company creates a...

              Another fantasy example which ignores the breadth and depth of the market such as automobiles. There are potentially thousands of sources for innovative products. And innovative products do not just appear magically out of nowhere, they rest on a vast infrastructure of existing ideas/products.

              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

              but the point is that the OIL industry has been sitting on technology for decades because they are milking the system.

              I see. Presumably all this incredible future technology originated in Area 51 as well. Probably kept secret all these years from foreign nationals by the very same security systems that obscure Area 51 itself.

              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

              Oh it doesn't work like that right? Ever heard of De Beers[^]?

              Not sure how this proves your point. Diamonds are singularly unique mineral. Not a manufactured product. Are you claiming that there is in fact a significantly 'better' diamond out there? And I certainly don't see any vast conspiracies in place which obscures the fact that they buy up new diamond sources and keep the demand artificially high.

              L Offline
              L Offline
              Lost User
              wrote on last edited by
              #116

              jschell wrote:

              Specious. In any number of ways.
               
              First overall market demands are not driven by a single decision in any way shape or form.
              Second normally on average in the scenario you depicted there is no real right answer. The two presentations will not have a specific winner. Thus one is about the same as the other. When there is a significantly and obviously better solution your fantasy 'Director' will make the right decision because there is a reason that person is a 'Director' in the first place. Or perhaps you are just claiming that everyone making any significant decision is absolutely corrupt and absolutely stupid.

              Market demand has nothing to do with it. You have proposed that if consumers demand 'better' technology it will come. I have pointed out a simple fictious yet plausable case where a technology would be surpressed, not because it is a worse item but merely because individual humans can and do impact technology. Everyone in the world does not have to be dumb or corrupt to make this true. Only one person.

              jschell wrote:

              Another fantasy example which ignores the breadth and depth of the market such as automobiles. There are potentially thousands of sources for innovative products. And innovative products do not just appear magically out of nowhere, they rest on a vast infrastructure of existing ideas/products.

              Again, you missed the point. Wether this case exists or not is not the point. It is IF it can exist. If it can exist it shows a simple case of where technology can be invented and not brought to consumers. It has nothing to do with consumer demand. That is the point.

              jschell wrote:

              I see. Presumably all this incredible future technology originated in Area 51 as well. Probably kept secret all these years from foreign nationals by the very same security systems that obscure Area 51 itself.

              So because one proposes that an industry is savy enough to lock down market control it brings in all global conspiracies?? Is it so hard to imagine that an industry with more money than most countries would want to ensure their future? Is it so hard to believe that the top executives ethics are questionable that they would not only do this but possible even direct illegal (blackmail, murder, etc) measures to protect themselves? Oh wait.. Thats right, C

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              • J jschell

                Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                Then come back here and tell me how I am wrong about they do not need a new distribution grid,

                You are going to have to point out exactly what in that site contradicts what I said.

                L Offline
                L Offline
                Lost User
                wrote on last edited by
                #117

                It is actually the opposite. You have to find a fact showing that the whole network will need to be rebuilt as you claimed. This site shows how the power plants output power is all merged into the same network. And you didnt respond to anything else.

                Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.

                J 1 Reply Last reply
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                • J jschell

                  harold aptroot wrote:

                  It matters a lot where the money comes from; if it has to come form the govt then it's bad because that means they'll economize on health care and education, but if it comes directly from people there's really no change.

                  It DOES NOT MATTER. You might think that one just prints more money and that is how governments pay for stuff but that is NOT how it works. Money is a representational fiction for the real economic manifestation in the modern world. The bigger something it is the more it it 'costs' the economy to create it.

                  L Offline
                  L Offline
                  Lost User
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #118

                  Your responce here makes no sence. Harold's point is as long as the Government does not demand the power companies to expand they will do it themselves. They will then either penny pinch internally in one of the millions of ways companies raise money e.g. Reduce Waist Reduce Overhead costs Pay Caps etc. etc. Or they will raise the peak costs. This is the standard anyways. Simply put, pay for what you use. If the government however mandates their expansion they will demand compensation AND they will raise peak costs. Therefore the populace will pay doubly, in the form of utilties and in taxes. I mean honestly, what you are saying about governments just print money etc doesn't even make sence. Harold said if it comes directly from the people (i.e. higher utility bills) there is no change. And what the heck does money being a representation of economy have to do with this? Are you just typing for the sake of typing now?

                  Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.

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                  • L Lost User

                    What the hell what kind of economy did you have in highschool?

                    jschell wrote:

                    You might think that one just prints more money and that is how governments pay for stuff but that is NOT how it works.

                    In the US it works that way, and that's why the country is being demoted to 3rd world. Good luck with that. Here in the EU there's only so much the govt the can spend, and they're already spending all of it so anything extra will mean leaving sick people to die and breeding a generation that didn't receive any education worth mentioning - because that's what this stupid backwards rightwing govt likes. If people pay direct instead of through tax, they just have a couple of euro's less savings or in extreme cases maybe they'll cancel their vacation to Spain. But neither of that would happen, electricity companies can't afford to raise prices unless they start price fixing.

                    J Offline
                    J Offline
                    jschell
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #119

                    harold aptroot wrote:

                    In the US it works that way, and that's why the country is being demoted to 3rd world

                    Both simplistic and wrong.

                    L 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • L Lost User

                      It is actually the opposite. You have to find a fact showing that the whole network will need to be rebuilt as you claimed. This site shows how the power plants output power is all merged into the same network. And you didnt respond to anything else.

                      Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.

                      J Offline
                      J Offline
                      jschell
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #120

                      Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                      It is actually the opposite. You have to find a fact showing that the whole network will need to be rebuilt as you claimed.

                      I didn't say that.

                      L 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • L Lost User

                        jschell wrote:

                        Specious. In any number of ways.
                         
                        First overall market demands are not driven by a single decision in any way shape or form.
                        Second normally on average in the scenario you depicted there is no real right answer. The two presentations will not have a specific winner. Thus one is about the same as the other. When there is a significantly and obviously better solution your fantasy 'Director' will make the right decision because there is a reason that person is a 'Director' in the first place. Or perhaps you are just claiming that everyone making any significant decision is absolutely corrupt and absolutely stupid.

                        Market demand has nothing to do with it. You have proposed that if consumers demand 'better' technology it will come. I have pointed out a simple fictious yet plausable case where a technology would be surpressed, not because it is a worse item but merely because individual humans can and do impact technology. Everyone in the world does not have to be dumb or corrupt to make this true. Only one person.

                        jschell wrote:

                        Another fantasy example which ignores the breadth and depth of the market such as automobiles. There are potentially thousands of sources for innovative products. And innovative products do not just appear magically out of nowhere, they rest on a vast infrastructure of existing ideas/products.

                        Again, you missed the point. Wether this case exists or not is not the point. It is IF it can exist. If it can exist it shows a simple case of where technology can be invented and not brought to consumers. It has nothing to do with consumer demand. That is the point.

                        jschell wrote:

                        I see. Presumably all this incredible future technology originated in Area 51 as well. Probably kept secret all these years from foreign nationals by the very same security systems that obscure Area 51 itself.

                        So because one proposes that an industry is savy enough to lock down market control it brings in all global conspiracies?? Is it so hard to imagine that an industry with more money than most countries would want to ensure their future? Is it so hard to believe that the top executives ethics are questionable that they would not only do this but possible even direct illegal (blackmail, murder, etc) measures to protect themselves? Oh wait.. Thats right, C

                        J Offline
                        J Offline
                        jschell
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #121

                        Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                        You have proposed that if consumers demand 'better' technology it will come.

                        I didn't say that. I said that if a substantially obvious product exists then market demand will drive to that product. Market desire can also drive to a better product but there is no guarantee that a better product can be created.

                        Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                        I have pointed out a simple fictious yet plausable case where a technology would be surpressed

                        You posited some outlandish conspiracy cases which do not exist. And ignored large market dynamics in doing so.

                        Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                        Only one person.

                        Wrong. I do not accept that humans with super abilities exist. And that is the only plausible cause where a single person can impact a large scale global market.

                        Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                        It is IF it can exist

                        You missed the point - it CANNOT exist in a large scale market.

                        Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                        So because one proposes that an industry is savy enough to lock down market control it brings in all global conspiracies??

                        Yes. Fantasy is fantasy. Large scale conspiracies exist only in the minds of people based on emotion and nothing else. Such 'theories' completely ignores that humans have a vast number of positive and negative traits of which the expression of any one of them make such conspiracies impossible. One need only look to any large population to see example every day of very small conspiracies which fail because some human trait.

                        Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                        So yes, I do believe that the mass of the population is too dumb to know what is good for them ...when price fixing comes into play

                        People are too stupid to know what is good for themselves yet there are vast numbers able to organize and maintain conspiracies that scale the globe and involve thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people and which span decades? It can't be both ways.

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                        • J jschell

                          harold aptroot wrote:

                          In the US it works that way, and that's why the country is being demoted to 3rd world

                          Both simplistic and wrong.

                          L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Lost User
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #122

                          So is the nonsense you've been spouting.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • J jschell

                            Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                            It is actually the opposite. You have to find a fact showing that the whole network will need to be rebuilt as you claimed.

                            I didn't say that.

                            L Offline
                            L Offline
                            Lost User
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #123

                            Ehem...

                            jschell wrote:

                            Ian Shlasko wrote:

                            It's a lot easier, logistically speaking, to improve a small handful of power plants, as opposed to going out and upgrading every single vehicle (again)

                            Sounds good in theory. Completely ignores economics though.
                             
                            You have to build the power plants. You have to build the distribution networks. You have to build the distribution points (you didn't think you were going to plug into some strangers outlet for free did you?)

                            There is no need to build anything until the demand for power requires it... Ian's point was it is easier to replace a a few power plants or switch from a coal power plant to a wind farm (when the time is right) than it is to continually upgrade and tweak combustion engines. By making them all electrical (which almost every thing is aside from a few gas applicances which mind you also have electric versions, e.g. Stove and Furnace), all systems are on the same interface. What supplies the power is then irrelavant. It can come from slave labor or from the sun. It then is up to society and the politicians as to what type of power plants supply power to their city. You make a claim that you have to build distribution networks. The distribution networks are in place. Only the power plants that are 'clean' need to be built.

                            Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.

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                            • J jschell

                              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                              You have proposed that if consumers demand 'better' technology it will come.

                              I didn't say that. I said that if a substantially obvious product exists then market demand will drive to that product. Market desire can also drive to a better product but there is no guarantee that a better product can be created.

                              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                              I have pointed out a simple fictious yet plausable case where a technology would be surpressed

                              You posited some outlandish conspiracy cases which do not exist. And ignored large market dynamics in doing so.

                              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                              Only one person.

                              Wrong. I do not accept that humans with super abilities exist. And that is the only plausible cause where a single person can impact a large scale global market.

                              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                              It is IF it can exist

                              You missed the point - it CANNOT exist in a large scale market.

                              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                              So because one proposes that an industry is savy enough to lock down market control it brings in all global conspiracies??

                              Yes. Fantasy is fantasy. Large scale conspiracies exist only in the minds of people based on emotion and nothing else. Such 'theories' completely ignores that humans have a vast number of positive and negative traits of which the expression of any one of them make such conspiracies impossible. One need only look to any large population to see example every day of very small conspiracies which fail because some human trait.

                              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                              So yes, I do believe that the mass of the population is too dumb to know what is good for them ...when price fixing comes into play

                              People are too stupid to know what is good for themselves yet there are vast numbers able to organize and maintain conspiracies that scale the globe and involve thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people and which span decades? It can't be both ways.

                              L Offline
                              L Offline
                              Lost User
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #124

                              jschell wrote:

                              I didn't say that. I said that if a substantially obvious product exists then market demand will drive to that product. Market desire can also drive to a better product but there is no guarantee that a better product can be created.

                              Lets go back to De Beers then shall we. There is an obvious replacement to Diamonds, yet we still pay through the teeth for genuine diamonds. Hmmmm, Yep you must be right. Wait no. The opposite. I have one single case where you are wrong. Your whole argument is based on broad statements that the market will drive itself. I have provided you a case where it fails. Your argument has failed. You need to learn how to debate better. You have made claims that "it will never rain", and I have showed you a case where it rained. You are wrong but simply can't admit it.

                              jschell wrote:

                              You posited some outlandish conspiracy cases which do not exist. And ignored large market dynamics in doing so.

                              Its not about wether they exist or not. Again, on the above note your whole argument is flawed (you are an easy target). To make a broad claim as you have done, one only need to find a single fact against it, or find a hypothetical situation that is probable. I have done both, just to show you how wrong you are.

                              jschell wrote:

                              Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                              Only one person.

                              Wrong. I do not accept that humans with super abilities exist. And that is the only plausible cause where a single person can impact a large scale global market.

                              One, need not super abilities to affect the market. One need only 1 of 2 things. Money or responsibility. There is a tactic in big business that is seen over and over again. They choke their competitors by cutting off the supply. It happens in manufacturing goods as well as consumer goods. For example, there are movie theatre franchises. One bought out by Pepsi the other still independent. The other wants to have pepsi in their theatre (a survey shows that their customers prefer it to Coke). However pepsi wants their self owned theatre to profit more. So they will gradually raise the price of Pepsi and Lays and all candy to the independent movie. Yes market says they can switch to Coke, but Pepsi will penny pinch them out of the market before that happens. Innevitably the

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                              • L Lost User

                                jschell wrote:

                                I didn't say that. I said that if a substantially obvious product exists then market demand will drive to that product. Market desire can also drive to a better product but there is no guarantee that a better product can be created.

                                Lets go back to De Beers then shall we. There is an obvious replacement to Diamonds, yet we still pay through the teeth for genuine diamonds. Hmmmm, Yep you must be right. Wait no. The opposite. I have one single case where you are wrong. Your whole argument is based on broad statements that the market will drive itself. I have provided you a case where it fails. Your argument has failed. You need to learn how to debate better. You have made claims that "it will never rain", and I have showed you a case where it rained. You are wrong but simply can't admit it.

                                jschell wrote:

                                You posited some outlandish conspiracy cases which do not exist. And ignored large market dynamics in doing so.

                                Its not about wether they exist or not. Again, on the above note your whole argument is flawed (you are an easy target). To make a broad claim as you have done, one only need to find a single fact against it, or find a hypothetical situation that is probable. I have done both, just to show you how wrong you are.

                                jschell wrote:

                                Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                Only one person.

                                Wrong. I do not accept that humans with super abilities exist. And that is the only plausible cause where a single person can impact a large scale global market.

                                One, need not super abilities to affect the market. One need only 1 of 2 things. Money or responsibility. There is a tactic in big business that is seen over and over again. They choke their competitors by cutting off the supply. It happens in manufacturing goods as well as consumer goods. For example, there are movie theatre franchises. One bought out by Pepsi the other still independent. The other wants to have pepsi in their theatre (a survey shows that their customers prefer it to Coke). However pepsi wants their self owned theatre to profit more. So they will gradually raise the price of Pepsi and Lays and all candy to the independent movie. Yes market says they can switch to Coke, but Pepsi will penny pinch them out of the market before that happens. Innevitably the

                                J Offline
                                J Offline
                                jschell
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #125

                                Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                There is an obvious replacement to Diamonds

                                Then you live in a different world than I do. In my world the primary drivers of the market have nothing to do with any physical attributes of the diamond.

                                Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                You have made claims that "it will never rain",

                                Nope. I said that because the how broad and deep the market is your single failure case was nonsense. Still is.

                                Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                To make a broad claim as you have done, one only need to find a single fact against it, or find a hypothetical situation that is probable. I have done both, just to show you how wrong you are.

                                You posited fantasy scenarios and, presumably, a very bad analogy (in many ways) which does not apply. Other than that nothing.

                                Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                One, need not super abilities to affect the market. One need only 1 of 2 things. Money or responsibility. There is a tactic in big business that is seen over and over again. ...

                                Again backed by fantasy scenarios and bad analogies. For a single business to impact the market then the single business must own the market. And continue to own the market. DeBeers is an example of market that is ownable. Automobiles and more broadly vehicles is not a market that is ownable. Nor is it owned - it isn't close to being owned.

                                Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                It only takes a few charismatic individuals in key roles to take advatage of the market. Price fixing happens from just a few companies sending in a few executives to determine best pricing. How is this massive amounts of people....

                                You are either ignorant or are choosing to ignore the enumerable examples of price fixing. Which always fail. Which often fail even when they are going on. Which never involve large numbers of people. Which never last long term.

                                Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                If you answer that they will try and market it you are either lieing or you are blind to human nature of greed.

                                Far as I know if someone knows how to make a better product and they have a substantial investment in the company that makes the product then "greed" would be exactly the factor that would drive them to have the company make

                                L 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • J jschell

                                  Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                  There is an obvious replacement to Diamonds

                                  Then you live in a different world than I do. In my world the primary drivers of the market have nothing to do with any physical attributes of the diamond.

                                  Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                  You have made claims that "it will never rain",

                                  Nope. I said that because the how broad and deep the market is your single failure case was nonsense. Still is.

                                  Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                  To make a broad claim as you have done, one only need to find a single fact against it, or find a hypothetical situation that is probable. I have done both, just to show you how wrong you are.

                                  You posited fantasy scenarios and, presumably, a very bad analogy (in many ways) which does not apply. Other than that nothing.

                                  Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                  One, need not super abilities to affect the market. One need only 1 of 2 things. Money or responsibility. There is a tactic in big business that is seen over and over again. ...

                                  Again backed by fantasy scenarios and bad analogies. For a single business to impact the market then the single business must own the market. And continue to own the market. DeBeers is an example of market that is ownable. Automobiles and more broadly vehicles is not a market that is ownable. Nor is it owned - it isn't close to being owned.

                                  Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                  It only takes a few charismatic individuals in key roles to take advatage of the market. Price fixing happens from just a few companies sending in a few executives to determine best pricing. How is this massive amounts of people....

                                  You are either ignorant or are choosing to ignore the enumerable examples of price fixing. Which always fail. Which often fail even when they are going on. Which never involve large numbers of people. Which never last long term.

                                  Collin Jasnoch wrote:

                                  If you answer that they will try and market it you are either lieing or you are blind to human nature of greed.

                                  Far as I know if someone knows how to make a better product and they have a substantial investment in the company that makes the product then "greed" would be exactly the factor that would drive them to have the company make

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                                  Lost User
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #126

                                  jschell wrote:

                                  Then you live in a different world than I do. In my world the primary drivers of the market have nothing to do with any physical attributes of the diamond.

                                  We do live in 2 different worlds. Mine is called reality. I have nothing else to say to this because it quite honestly sounds like 2 points merged into one... Simply put, it makes no sence.

                                  jschell wrote:

                                  Nope. I said that because the how broad and deep the market is your single failure case was nonsense.
                                  Still is.

                                  Do you have anything to say to anyone other than they do not understand the market? I have given you solid examples and fictional yet probable examples and you simply say 'fantasy' and 'conspiracy'. You have not produced any references or even opinions other than your own. Yet you claim you understand the market. Move a long and leave the debating to the big kids if you can't produce.

                                  jschell wrote:

                                  You posited fantasy scenarios and, presumably, a very bad analogy (in many ways) which does not apply. Other than that nothing.

                                  Actually I posted real and 'hypothetical' scenerios. The purpose of hypothetical situations is not to analyze wether it is plausable probable or impossible but to analyze the effect if it existed. The fact that you do not understand that leads me to believe you are simply regurgitating brainwashing material. Think for yourself.

                                  jschell wrote:

                                  Again backed by fantasy scenarios and bad analogies.
                                   
                                  For a single business to impact the market then the single business must own the market. And continue to own the market. DeBeers is an example of market that is ownable. Automobiles and more broadly vehicles is not a market that is ownable. Nor is it owned - it isn't close to being owned.

                                  You said it not me. It is close to being owned. When the eF do you think s41T starts going wrong? After a single owner beat competition to a pulp? Or is it more likely years before when the owner figured out how to beat the competition to a pulp. Or possibly.. Just maybe (ohoh I am going 'fantasy' here) it is when the competitors group together (ever hear of price fixing????) and drive out 'new' ventures. What the heck do you think Microsoft did during the 90s? You keep talking about my 'fantasies' but you are clearly living in bizaro land if

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                                    What was insulting about that? You guys were the ones doing the piling on. The fact is that you're not a climate scientist and ultimately your opinion on any raw data or cherry-picked studies is worth nothing. The fact is that I'm not a climate scientist and ultimately my opinion on the raw data or cherry-picked studies is worth nothing. Unfortunately, only one of us recognizes this. Toodles, champ!

                                    - F

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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #127

                                    Fisticuffs wrote:

                                    The fact is that I'm not a climate scientist and ultimately my opinion on the raw data or cherry-picked studies is worth nothing.

                                    The fact is that you are not a psychologist either, so "It's a broad psychological phenomenon - the less someone knows about something, the more people [they] are likely to overestimate their knowledge of it." is also worth nothing. (Otherwise: The less one knows about people, the more one is likely to over estimate one's knowledge of them, would also hold true.) Pip, pip, Doc!

                                    Be dogmatic, not thoughtful. It's easier, and you get bumper stickers.- Anon.

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                                    • S soap brain

                                      Erudite__Eric wrote:

                                      This rules out Einstein then, no?

                                      I'm going to have to stop you there. Albert Einstein was awarded a PhD in physics in 1905 by the University of Zurich.

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                                      Lost User
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #128

                                      This was before he worked in the patent office as a clerk was it?

                                      ============================== Nothing to say.

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                                      • L Lost User

                                        Fisticuffs wrote:

                                        The fact is that I'm not a climate scientist and ultimately my opinion on the raw data or cherry-picked studies is worth nothing.

                                        The fact is that you are not a psychologist either, so "It's a broad psychological phenomenon - the less someone knows about something, the more people [they] are likely to overestimate their knowledge of it." is also worth nothing. (Otherwise: The less one knows about people, the more one is likely to over estimate one's knowledge of them, would also hold true.) Pip, pip, Doc!

                                        Be dogmatic, not thoughtful. It's easier, and you get bumper stickers.- Anon.

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                                        Lost User
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #129

                                        Good point, I missed that. In fact Fistedchuff, by hios own admission, is actually totally useless at everything except that which he studied for his degree. Sex, cooking, being a father, gardening, DIY, computers, fixing his car, music, wines, etc etc etc ie

                                        ============================== Nothing to say.

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                                        • L Lost User

                                          This was before he worked in the patent office as a clerk was it?

                                          ============================== Nothing to say.

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                                          soap brain
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #130

                                          Erudite__Eric wrote:

                                          This was before he worked in the patent office as a clerk was it?

                                          No. He worked from the patent office at least from 1903 to 1909, and he was awarded his PhD and then published his papers on Brownian motion, Special relativity, mass-energy equivalence and the photoelectric effect in 1905.

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