Do I have the obligation to make my neighborhood look more attractive than it really is?
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
And that's why I'll never live in an estate with a covenant...
Silence is golden... but duct tape is silver!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
I guess it depends on the terms of your contract with the HOA - worth reading the fine print and checking whether they have the right or not. it would seem hard for them to describe in a document what is acceptable - unless they insist all fences are painted in a single colour - so you could just call their bluff and lave it. Alternatively, find some local graffiti artists and let them decorate your fence - maybe with a cartoon of the HOA president? Or just paint it in ridiculously bright colours - maybe psychedelic colours - and see if that passes their criteria. Being a tech site, I should also suggest a web-cam with movement-activation hidden in a gap in the fence - so you can film those responsible, then give that to the police and the HOA
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
I think you are the person most likely to defend your property, so maybe the HOA has a point. You might be able to deter them with a camera. If your HOA allows that. A motion sensor spotlight may also help. Or maybe motion sensor sprinklers. Perhaps an alarm that only you can hear inside your house so you can check the camera and notify the police and catch them in the act. :)
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
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I think you are the person most likely to defend your property, so maybe the HOA has a point. You might be able to deter them with a camera. If your HOA allows that. A motion sensor spotlight may also help. Or maybe motion sensor sprinklers. Perhaps an alarm that only you can hear inside your house so you can check the camera and notify the police and catch them in the act. :)
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
Paint Ball Land Mines [^] ;) graffiti for the "graffiti artist" (like the dye packs in the bank money packets)
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
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Paint Ball Land Mines [^] ;) graffiti for the "graffiti artist" (like the dye packs in the bank money packets)
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
Haha, in addition to self-cleaning fences.
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
I feel your frustration. You can get into the reading of the fine prints, you can argue the daylights out of it with them, you might win, you may lose. But really, is it worth the time and effort and stress? It'd just be faster and easier on you to suck it up (yes life sucks sometimes) paint the fence, mutter about "them darn kids" and get on with life. Much cheaper/easier and less stressful than a protracted legal battle. If it happens regularly then I support _Maxx_
Being a tech site, I should also suggest a web-cam with movement-activation hidden in a gap in the fence - so you can film those responsible, then give that to the police and the HOA
Does the HOA have security guards? Bryce
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Our kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff The Snotgoblin for the Ipad -
And that's why I'll never live in an estate with a covenant...
Silence is golden... but duct tape is silver!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
mate - they probably wouldn't let your CAR in there!!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
Depends entirely upon how the agreement is written. It might be worth it to go over it with a lawyer. It might not take very much money to have that conversation. The reason why this makes sense is because this will not be the last dispute you have with the HOA. I used to be in a townhouse. The responsibility would have been entirely on the HOA there. I was responsible only for what was inside the walls of the house. Dealing with graffiti; I have a friend who had this problem. He just paints over it before the school bus goes by in the morning on his business wall and the kids stopped doing it. If they see their work is gone before they can brag about it they pick someone else to go after. This wouldn't work for me because I tend to sleep late. So set your alarm for five o'clock in the morning, go out there and hit it with white paint, then go back to bed. Even an imperfect job will deter them. Dealing with the HOA; Run for the board. Then you can bend them to the force of your reasonableness. Or move to a better neighborhood. Something without an HOA. (As far as I'm concerned, any neighborhood without an HOA is a better neighborhood.) Or better yet, run for city council or state representative and persuade them to make that part of an HOA contract invalid under the law and therefore void. Or befriend someone in that position who might be able to get that going. (Really, isn't getting a lawyer to walk you through your rights and responsibilities involving the contract more sensible and cheaper at that point?) From the perspective of the HOA, someone has to clean it up and it's not them. And since it is your fence they'll pick you. I imagine if the fence broke you'd have to repair it. I guess the bottom line, is that it is probably a lot easier to knuckle under and just paint the fence. This would stick in my craw for the rest of the time I lived there so I'm not saying it's what I would do. I'm saying it might make more sense to know when to cut your losses.
_____________________________ Give a man a mug, he drinks for a day. Teach a man to mug... The difference between an ostrich and the average voter is where they stick their heads.
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
Around this hood there are trains. With overpasses, several as there's a junction of tracks and they dig down for the roadways and build bridges for the trains. Resulting in cement walls that were magnets for taggers of all sorts. Lately they've taken to 'commissioning' art works on them - pretty much done in the same style urban style that a graffiti artist would. They're nice enough to placate the powers that be, stay unsullied for the most part as there is a certain degree of respect among these guys, and relieve the city of having to white wash the walls every month. Find a graffiti artist, tell him he's got free rein on the fence, and let him go. Do sumpin nice. What's the worst that can happen - ya gotta paint it anyway, right? The other option is, of course, THE THORNY SHRUBBERY. But that would be cruel.
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
Here is a provacative question: What is more expensive, the fine, or buying the materials and time spent to clean the fence? Maybe that will help you decide what you want to do, since you're going to pay for something either way. Who knows, maybe with the fine money you pay, they will send someone out and paint the fence for you.
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
Xiangyang Liu 刘向阳 wrote:
because it was done by an elementary school boy
I can understand it's hard to arrest a juvenile, but surely, kids can be cautioned! Police are just being lazy if they aren't doing anything. At the very least, they can give the kids a proper earful as a respected member of the society, not just as a police officer.
Almost, but not quite, entirely unlike... me...
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
Where I live, the HOA owns the other side of the fence, so it would be their problem, not mine.
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Xiangyang Liu 刘向阳 wrote:
because it was done by an elementary school boy
I can understand it's hard to arrest a juvenile, but surely, kids can be cautioned! Police are just being lazy if they aren't doing anything. At the very least, they can give the kids a proper earful as a respected member of the society, not just as a police officer.
Almost, but not quite, entirely unlike... me...
Haul 'em home to the parents by the ear...
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
This reason is why I avoided buying a house within a Homeowner Association jurisdiction. The one we seriously looked at, had a bound book thicker than some of my undergraduate classes. The HOA will be relentless until you comply with their rules, or move. I swear people who govern HOA's are people with a too-checkered past to run for government, but want the authority.
Blog updated as of Nov 2011!!! http://craptasticnation.blogspot.com Regarding the passing of Andy Rooney, a quote from myself: "I always loved his curmudgeonly rants as an existential part of my bitchy self"
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
You signed away any property rights you had when you let a homeowners association into the neighborhood. Any HOA, no matter how benign in the beginning will in short order become a dictatorship run by whiners, and there isn't a thing you can do about it. No matter how beautiful the home, or how great the price, the mere existence of a HOA is a guaranty that I will refuse the deal. I'd sooner live in a ditch than let my snooty, snoopy neighbors decide what I may do with my property, including maintaining it.
Will Rogers never met me.
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My fence is next to a little path in the neighborhood. Some kids (maybe adults as well) keep painting graffiti on my fence which I cleaned up several times in the past. I reported the problems to police who did not do anything. There was even a time when I knew who did it, they still did nothing (because it was done by an elementary school boy). Finally I gave up and let the graffiti stay on. I know some people would resort to firearms but I enjoyed living within a fence with graffiti more than living inside a jail. Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine. I called the office, told the guy there that I did not do anything wrong and it would be a waste of time for me to clean up everytime, the police is no help even if they know who is responsible, and also, as a victim I should not be punished, etc. The guy said sorry, the HOA rules cannot be ignored, I must clean it up each time, because I made the neighborhood look bad by not cleaning it. This is what makes me angry. If someone keeps painting graffiti on others' fences, then the neighborhood is already bad. I did not make it look any worse than it really is. If others try to blame me, to hell with their property values. What do you think? Does HOA really have the right to punish me?
Xiangyang Liu 刘向阳 wrote:
Today I received a letter from Homeowners' Association, it says I must clean up my fence or face a fine.
A fine they would collect how? They can send you all the threats and fines they want, but collecting on them is an entirely different matter. How much is the fine vs. the cost to repair the fence? All that said, read your contract verbatim.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"Show me a community that obeys the Ten Commandments and I'll show you a less crowded prison system." - Anonymous
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You signed away any property rights you had when you let a homeowners association into the neighborhood. Any HOA, no matter how benign in the beginning will in short order become a dictatorship run by whiners, and there isn't a thing you can do about it. No matter how beautiful the home, or how great the price, the mere existence of a HOA is a guaranty that I will refuse the deal. I'd sooner live in a ditch than let my snooty, snoopy neighbors decide what I may do with my property, including maintaining it.
Will Rogers never met me.
Wotcha Wogger so your advice to the chap in quesiton is to suck it up and paint the fence? (that was my advice) Bryce
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Our kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff The Snotgoblin for the Ipad
