Coding - the new Latin
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I worked with a young chap who had an MSc in computer science and was not particularly great at coding(that's being very kind to him...) When I asked him if he had been taught about the mechanics of a hard-drive he told me that they were not taught about hardware on the course! Back in '88 when I did my degree we had to learn about hardware partly because if we wanted to get a printer to work we had to get those dip switches set correctly... It was very useful and most of us on the course were geeks - we did the degree because we were actually interested in IT and not because of the money at the other end. I am not sure teaching coding at school will help as anyone interested in it will probably be coding at home and know way more than the teacher - the others may just find being taught to code incomprehensible or boring.
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
Without wanting to get into a 'back in the day...' discussion, when I started out we were taught from the bottom up. CPU, ALU, buffers, memory access, tape I/O [none of the new-fangled disks for us]. A lot of early assignments were simple machine code tasks, but getting a right answer only garnered about 75% of the marks. The rest was for compact and efficient code. 25++ years on I still remember "The sooner you start coding, the later you'll finish."
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Aunty says[^]:
The campaign to boost the teaching of computer skills - particularly coding - in schools is gathering force.
I'd like to see maths and language skill being taught fully and then IT on top of that. I really don't want a generation of noobs thinking they're 1337. So, buns at the ready, it's over to you guys... [edit] De-doofused post. You'd think after one oops, I'd chick my spoiling.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Maggies home channel wrote:
Coding - the new Latin
Interesting aspect indeed. While the direct comparison does not hold up well - more and more information is available without restrictions of education or language - it may be the vital skill to transform society, and those who write it have influence on it.
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
I'd chick my spoiling.
You should spoil your chick instead, lest someone else does!
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchy -
Aunty says[^]:
The campaign to boost the teaching of computer skills - particularly coding - in schools is gathering force.
I'd like to see maths and language skill being taught fully and then IT on top of that. I really don't want a generation of noobs thinking they're 1337. So, buns at the ready, it's over to you guys... [edit] De-doofused post. You'd think after one oops, I'd chick my spoiling.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Well I remember a course for Computer architecture with the x86 assembler... with pascal... and then C. Ask anyone these days on what language they learn coding they say Java or C#... Next thing you know your app is leaking memory like a broken dam.
Alberto Bar-Noy --------------- “The city’s central computer told you? R2D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!” (C3PO)
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Aunty says[^]:
The campaign to boost the teaching of computer skills - particularly coding - in schools is gathering force.
I'd like to see maths and language skill being taught fully and then IT on top of that. I really don't want a generation of noobs thinking they're 1337. So, buns at the ready, it's over to you guys... [edit] De-doofused post. You'd think after one oops, I'd chick my spoiling.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
So, buns at the ready, it's over to you guys...
It's simple. Ask a person to teach you what their thought process was, what information they used to make decisions, why they chose the particular implementation that they did, how they tested it, how it met the requirements. Most people can't explain the how and why of what they do. If they can, succinctly, clearly, and so that you truly understand what they did (even if you don't agree with it, the point is that you understand it) then you have someone with some good skills. Marc
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
So, buns at the ready, it's over to you guys...
It's simple. Ask a person to teach you what their thought process was, what information they used to make decisions, why they chose the particular implementation that they did, how they tested it, how it met the requirements. Most people can't explain the how and why of what they do. If they can, succinctly, clearly, and so that you truly understand what they did (even if you don't agree with it, the point is that you understand it) then you have someone with some good skills. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Most people can't explain the how and why of what they do
Unless they're called Marc Clifton.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Most people can't explain the how and why of what they do
Unless they're called Marc Clifton.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Heh. I struggle with that too. It's my own measure of whether I know what I'm doing. :) Marc
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Well I remember a course for Computer architecture with the x86 assembler... with pascal... and then C. Ask anyone these days on what language they learn coding they say Java or C#... Next thing you know your app is leaking memory like a broken dam.
Alberto Bar-Noy --------------- “The city’s central computer told you? R2D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!” (C3PO)
When I studied CS it was all Java. But anyone who first learns to program while studying CS was never serious about it anyway. The first thing I learned was z80 assembly. (or TI BASIC if that counts[no] - I learned z80 assembly because TI BASIC is slow)
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
So, buns at the ready, it's over to you guys...
It's simple. Ask a person to teach you what their thought process was, what information they used to make decisions, why they chose the particular implementation that they did, how they tested it, how it met the requirements. Most people can't explain the how and why of what they do. If they can, succinctly, clearly, and so that you truly understand what they did (even if you don't agree with it, the point is that you understand it) then you have someone with some good skills. Marc
This is an excellent way to drive out requirements. If somebody can't explain a task in clear simple terms, they don't understand it sufficiently well to enable you to code it.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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When I studied CS it was all Java. But anyone who first learns to program while studying CS was never serious about it anyway. The first thing I learned was z80 assembly. (or TI BASIC if that counts[no] - I learned z80 assembly because TI BASIC is slow)
C64 and C128 basic for me :)
Alberto Bar-Noy --------------- “The city’s central computer told you? R2D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!” (C3PO)
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
So, buns at the ready, it's over to you guys...
It's simple. Ask a person to teach you what their thought process was, what information they used to make decisions, why they chose the particular implementation that they did, how they tested it, how it met the requirements. Most people can't explain the how and why of what they do. If they can, succinctly, clearly, and so that you truly understand what they did (even if you don't agree with it, the point is that you understand it) then you have someone with some good skills. Marc
I use the verbs method, if there is such a thing, I write what I want and the verbs in the sentences derive the basic and first draft of requirements... and then marketing comes along... ;P
Alberto Bar-Noy --------------- “The city’s central computer told you? R2D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!” (C3PO)
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This is an excellent way to drive out requirements. If somebody can't explain a task in clear simple terms, they don't understand it sufficiently well to enable you to code it.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
If somebody can't explain a task in clear simple terms, they don't understand it sufficiently well to enable you to code it.
Ye Gods, man! How do you get anything coded? :)
Be dogmatic, not thoughtful. It's easier, and you get bumper stickers.- Anon.
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I use the verbs method, if there is such a thing, I write what I want and the verbs in the sentences derive the basic and first draft of requirements... and then marketing comes along... ;P
Alberto Bar-Noy --------------- “The city’s central computer told you? R2D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!” (C3PO)
Alberto Bar-Noy wrote:
I write what I want and the verbs in the sentences derive the basic and first draft of requirements
Yes! I learned about that when reading a book by, I think, Grady Booch, on OOP. It's a great technique! Marc
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When I studied CS it was all Java. But anyone who first learns to program while studying CS was never serious about it anyway. The first thing I learned was z80 assembly. (or TI BASIC if that counts[no] - I learned z80 assembly because TI BASIC is slow)
Does Logo count? Not sure what language I learned on my TI-83+, but I learned one of them at least. If not, then does QuickBasic count? Now that I think about it, I had lots of first programming languages. :)
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
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Without wanting to get into a 'back in the day...' discussion, when I started out we were taught from the bottom up. CPU, ALU, buffers, memory access, tape I/O [none of the new-fangled disks for us]. A lot of early assignments were simple machine code tasks, but getting a right answer only garnered about 75% of the marks. The rest was for compact and efficient code. 25++ years on I still remember "The sooner you start coding, the later you'll finish."
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Very true but remember 25 years ago coding was a much more confined affair, no internet less languages and such plus no OO or things to confused people who might not be able to grasp the concepts of coding.
James Binary Warrior.
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Aunty says[^]:
The campaign to boost the teaching of computer skills - particularly coding - in schools is gathering force.
I'd like to see maths and language skill being taught fully and then IT on top of that. I really don't want a generation of noobs thinking they're 1337. So, buns at the ready, it's over to you guys... [edit] De-doofused post. You'd think after one oops, I'd chick my spoiling.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
This is such BS. Coding is a psecific part of a particular engineering discipline. It shoes the utter ignorance of the goyt that they try to promote it. Why not promote welding? Stress analysis? Thermodynamics? Resonance theory? All these are specific parts of other engineering disciplines. Why not? Clearly this is BS, a govt playing at doing the right thing. Idiots.
============================== Nothing to say.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
If somebody can't explain a task in clear simple terms, they don't understand it sufficiently well to enable you to code it.
Ye Gods, man! How do you get anything coded? :)
Be dogmatic, not thoughtful. It's easier, and you get bumper stickers.- Anon.
We don't, we bill by the day. ;)
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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We don't, we bill by the day. ;)
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
-
Aunty says[^]:
The campaign to boost the teaching of computer skills - particularly coding - in schools is gathering force.
I'd like to see maths and language skill being taught fully and then IT on top of that. I really don't want a generation of noobs thinking they're 1337. So, buns at the ready, it's over to you guys... [edit] De-doofused post. You'd think after one oops, I'd chick my spoiling.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
I've met some people like that...I'm at an engineering school it's required that everyone takes at least a basic programming course (mostly C++, there's also a Java class now and then), and I was working on an application for a grad student who thought because he had taken a couple of Java courses he knew everything about programming (more than the group of Comp Sci's I was in, all juniors or seniors). At one point he even told another member of the group: "You're programming wrong!"
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C64 and C128 basic for me :)
Alberto Bar-Noy --------------- “The city’s central computer told you? R2D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!” (C3PO)
Started with 8080 assembly on an Altair 8800 then moved to Z80 when I replaced the CPU with a Cromemco board. Did a fair bit of Z80 assembler on the C128 but never got ambitious enough to learn 6502 for the C64. It seemed so limiting.
I'm not a programmer but I play one at the office
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Without wanting to get into a 'back in the day...' discussion, when I started out we were taught from the bottom up. CPU, ALU, buffers, memory access, tape I/O [none of the new-fangled disks for us]. A lot of early assignments were simple machine code tasks, but getting a right answer only garnered about 75% of the marks. The rest was for compact and efficient code. 25++ years on I still remember "The sooner you start coding, the later you'll finish."
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
I remember similar stuff, the first thing to understand was the units in the CPU, so how buffers were arranged etc, how memory and I/O was mapped etc - otherwise how you could create the most efficient assembler. We had to build our own 6502 based computers, basic but had to be done as part of the course.