Bill Hicks - Creationists
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er...no, they are dead, oblivion, nix, ex vivo nihilo. There is no afterlife, no great hereafter, no heaven or hell, no happy hunting ground. These were all invented by man to control other men. Only a moron brainwashed by parents and other religious nutters would believe it. Once we grow up and put the illusions and childish beliefs away we can progress. There are no space pixies that judge us, there are no fairies at the bottom of the garden.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
I *know* differently and not because I was brainwashed by my atheist parents either. One day you will know too. One way or the other. Good luck and Good day to you sir. Sincerely.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
er...no, they are dead, oblivion, nix, ex vivo nihilo. There is no afterlife, no great hereafter, no heaven or hell, no happy hunting ground. These were all invented by man to control other men. Only a moron brainwashed by parents and other religious nutters would believe it. Once we grow up and put the illusions and childish beliefs away we can progress. There are no space pixies that judge us, there are no fairies at the bottom of the garden.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
there are no fairies at the bottom of the garden.
There are at Graham Norton's house.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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I *know* differently and not because I was brainwashed by my atheist parents either. One day you will know too. One way or the other. Good luck and Good day to you sir. Sincerely.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunYou don't *know* anything: you believe (have faith): an entirely different proposition.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
One day you will know too. One way or the other.
Nope, I'll never know cos I'll be dead. The end.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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You don't *know* anything: you believe (have faith): an entirely different proposition.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
One day you will know too. One way or the other.
Nope, I'll never know cos I'll be dead. The end.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Actually I do know. Just as I know I live.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
I *know* differently and not because I was brainwashed by my atheist parents either. One day you will know too. One way or the other. Good luck and Good day to you sir. Sincerely.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Like I've said to others. I *do* know. You cannot know what I know. You have not seen what I have seen. You have not experienced what I have experienced. *You* do not know. But, *I* do know.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Like I've said to others. I *do* know. You cannot know what I know. You have not seen what I have seen. You have not experienced what I have experienced. *You* do not know. But, *I* do know.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunThen you must seek immediate psychiatric help, you appear to be delusional. I personally would mistrust anyone who told me that there is this thing that nobody has ever seen and which cannot be proved but if you do not do as I say then it will punish you. I know, you merely believe, and you cannot prove it. I do not need to prove it, for I do not tell people how to live and what to do, whereas religionists kill people who do not follow some bloke from a long time ago.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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Then you must seek immediate psychiatric help, you appear to be delusional. I personally would mistrust anyone who told me that there is this thing that nobody has ever seen and which cannot be proved but if you do not do as I say then it will punish you. I know, you merely believe, and you cannot prove it. I do not need to prove it, for I do not tell people how to live and what to do, whereas religionists kill people who do not follow some bloke from a long time ago.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Ah, there you go. Resorting to hyperbole and ad hominem attacks. The last resort of the ignorant and bigoted. I'm not trying to tell you how to live nor would I kill you, nor encourage anyone else to do so. In fact, I would defend you against such people and actions. I just don't agree with you. No surprise, you don't agree with me either. However, I do encourage you to live a good life and to be good to yourself and to others. Have a good day!
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Actually I do know. Just as I know I live.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunYawn. Get over yourself.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Ah, there you go. Resorting to hyperbole and ad hominem attacks. The last resort of the ignorant and bigoted. I'm not trying to tell you how to live nor would I kill you, nor encourage anyone else to do so. In fact, I would defend you against such people and actions. I just don't agree with you. No surprise, you don't agree with me either. However, I do encourage you to live a good life and to be good to yourself and to others. Have a good day!
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunIf you really know can you provide some proof? Surely that should be easy given your previous statements.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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If you really know can you provide some proof? Surely that should be easy given your previous statements.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Unfortunately, it's not that easy. It's not the kind of proof that can be shared other than by talking about it and encouraging others to get their own proof.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Unfortunately, it's not that easy. It's not the kind of proof that can be shared other than by talking about it and encouraging others to get their own proof.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunSo, no proof at all then. I made no ad hom attack, I merely pointed out that whatever you saw that made you believe in god is no more believable than the poor sods who claim to have been abducted by aliens. As for the Religionists killing people, the evidence is overwhelming.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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So, no proof at all then. I made no ad hom attack, I merely pointed out that whatever you saw that made you believe in god is no more believable than the poor sods who claim to have been abducted by aliens. As for the Religionists killing people, the evidence is overwhelming.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Not proof in the scientific sense no. The ad hominem came in the form of telling me to seek psychiatric help... funny, but unhelpful. Surely you believe that there are sentient beings other than humans in the universe. I do. (And no, I'm not referring to God, here.) I know there's no proof one way or the other, but if life came to be here (however it came to be) surely conditions must have existed or exist somewhere in this vast universe for intelligent life to have formed long enough ago to have developed the technology to reach us here. Why they would want to bother with us I don't know, but it's possible I suppose. Yes lots of killing by all sorts of people, Religionists, Atheists and every kind in between, all alike.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Not proof in the scientific sense no. The ad hominem came in the form of telling me to seek psychiatric help... funny, but unhelpful. Surely you believe that there are sentient beings other than humans in the universe. I do. (And no, I'm not referring to God, here.) I know there's no proof one way or the other, but if life came to be here (however it came to be) surely conditions must have existed or exist somewhere in this vast universe for intelligent life to have formed long enough ago to have developed the technology to reach us here. Why they would want to bother with us I don't know, but it's possible I suppose. Yes lots of killing by all sorts of people, Religionists, Atheists and every kind in between, all alike.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
Not proof in the scientific sense no.
Then no proof at all. What you believe in the confines of your head does not count as proof.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
Not proof in the scientific sense no.
Then no proof at all. What you believe in the confines of your head does not count as proof.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Oh, it's more than in the confines of my head. And it is pure knowledge, not mere belief. But, I don't expect you to believe me and don't fault you for not doing so. I wouldn't believe it either, if I hadn't experienced it myself. Call it what you will but it is possible to come to the knowledge of truth other than by the usual suspects.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Oh, it's more than in the confines of my head. And it is pure knowledge, not mere belief. But, I don't expect you to believe me and don't fault you for not doing so. I wouldn't believe it either, if I hadn't experienced it myself. Call it what you will but it is possible to come to the knowledge of truth other than by the usual suspects.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
But, I don't expect you to believe me and don't fault you for not doing so. I wouldn't believe it either, if I hadn't experienced it myself.
I think I know something of this experience you speak of. I had one too, many years ago. I was sure I felt God's presence; I knew it, as you say you do now. It was a very emotional setting, I was going through a rough time with some friends who were in deep trouble. And I felt It. I don't believe in God now. I believe, now, that what I felt came completely from myself, encouraged by the companionship with the people I was with. The fact that it came from me, and not some ethereal, unreliable external force, is actually very, very comforting to me, to know that my brain is capable of producing such feelings. It was a chemical release of some kind, probably, but it doesn't diminish the fact that it came from me and me alone. You may believe it was God working through that chemical release to bring me comfort. I skip a step, that is all. So my 1990 self knowing was not proof at all, it wasn't even evidence. It was a mistake.
Look at me still talking when there's science to do When I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you
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Oh, it's more than in the confines of my head. And it is pure knowledge, not mere belief. But, I don't expect you to believe me and don't fault you for not doing so. I wouldn't believe it either, if I hadn't experienced it myself. Call it what you will but it is possible to come to the knowledge of truth other than by the usual suspects.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunSo elucidate. The point for me is that if you cannot offer any tangible proof then you have nothing but your belief: it is plainly not knowledge since it can't be quantified or reproduced. I do believe that you believe what you are saying and are honest and earnest. However, your faith, of itself, does not render your belief to be true to anyone other than yourself and, if you can't share, then all we have is your word which is unsupported. Note that I do not care what you believe in; I do care that you think I should or will when I consider your faith to be tantamount to fantasy and, at that, a dangerous one since blind faith leads to intellectual blindness.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
But, I don't expect you to believe me and don't fault you for not doing so. I wouldn't believe it either, if I hadn't experienced it myself.
I think I know something of this experience you speak of. I had one too, many years ago. I was sure I felt God's presence; I knew it, as you say you do now. It was a very emotional setting, I was going through a rough time with some friends who were in deep trouble. And I felt It. I don't believe in God now. I believe, now, that what I felt came completely from myself, encouraged by the companionship with the people I was with. The fact that it came from me, and not some ethereal, unreliable external force, is actually very, very comforting to me, to know that my brain is capable of producing such feelings. It was a chemical release of some kind, probably, but it doesn't diminish the fact that it came from me and me alone. You may believe it was God working through that chemical release to bring me comfort. I skip a step, that is all. So my 1990 self knowing was not proof at all, it wasn't even evidence. It was a mistake.
Look at me still talking when there's science to do When I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you
It is nothing like what you speak of. I've had those too, but what I speak of is different.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
So elucidate. The point for me is that if you cannot offer any tangible proof then you have nothing but your belief: it is plainly not knowledge since it can't be quantified or reproduced. I do believe that you believe what you are saying and are honest and earnest. However, your faith, of itself, does not render your belief to be true to anyone other than yourself and, if you can't share, then all we have is your word which is unsupported. Note that I do not care what you believe in; I do care that you think I should or will when I consider your faith to be tantamount to fantasy and, at that, a dangerous one since blind faith leads to intellectual blindness.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
all we have is your word
True. Not much to go on, is it?
mark merrens wrote:
I do care that you think I should
I think you should find out for yourself. Think for yourself. I only ask you to be and do good.
mark merrens wrote:
I consider your faith to be tantamount to fantasy
Understandable.
mark merrens wrote:
blind faith leads to intellectual blindness
True that. I always try to be open-minded and often test the state of my knowledge (what little knowledge I do have, some of it probably suspect). You ask me to elucidate. I can only tell you what I know, but it's like witnessing an event and then trying to tell others about it. But there's no apparent evidence that the event ever took place, other than my word and description. People would have to take your word for what you witnessed, if they trusted you they might believe, but could never know for themselves unless they witnessed their own "private event". Such is it with me. I know for myself. I can not "give" you that knowledge. You have to seek your own. I can only tell you that "I know." You may not believe me and you may find it incredulous, yet I know what I know, I can not deny what I have witnessed and experienced. Any more than Marco Polo could deny having been to China and back, whether people of his time believed his stories or not. So it is with me. I have taken the journey. You must take your own. Or not. It matters not to me.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Unfortunately, it's not that easy. It's not the kind of proof that can be shared other than by talking about it and encouraging others to get their own proof.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
Unfortunately, it's not that easy. It's not the kind of proof that can be shared other than by talking about it and encouraging others to get their own proof.
That is specifically not "proof". That is belief. Nothing wrong with belief but understanding that it isn't proof is basic to understanding what the word means.