Anyone else feels like a prostitute sometimes when contracting?
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Erudite_Eric wrote:
What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done.
yes. that's what being a contract contractor is all about. you're hired to do a specific task, not to be a management consultant or to try to correct their culture. if you want to be a boss, be a boss, not a contract programmer. that's my attitude anyway. if they ask, maybe i'll tell them what i think, but i always assume the boundaries between programmer and management are a bit stricter, if i'm not a full time employee. i do the job i've been assigned, nothing more. and 'contract programmer' is quite a bit different than 'prostitute'.
Yeah, it pays less.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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Yeah, it pays less.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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I dont mean the true consultant roles, I mean the 'employee' roles, where for months, years, you have to sit there and suffer the injustice of ill opinion, poor management, and technical ballsery, just because if you told it like it is, you would be out the door, yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind. What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done. Anyone else felt so trapped as that?
============================== Nothing to say.
Now a contractor, though not always so: I am more like someone's paying me to play for a living. Much better than working. I guess it's because coding is still fun and a tough problem just make the (billable) hours roll by faster. That being said . . . The following is a quote from my CodeProject 'bio': In real life, a research chemist. Bitten by the bug for instrument automation, and then numeric and kinetic modeling, I turned to the dark side (or to the light), programming all sorts of lovely things. Alas, one needs to make a living, so off I went to POS, and now, the insurance industry. Doing now for money what I used to do simply for pleasure - not much different than a cheap hooker. For that matter, what jobs aren't either (1) selling yourself (paid by another), or (2) self-imposed legal slavery (self employed)? Next time, be born rich - don't make the same mistakes twice! So there you have the answer.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I dont mean the true consultant roles, I mean the 'employee' roles, where for months, years, you have to sit there and suffer the injustice of ill opinion, poor management, and technical ballsery, just because if you told it like it is, you would be out the door, yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind. What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done. Anyone else felt so trapped as that?
============================== Nothing to say.
Ohh of course. I mean, the place where I'm working currently is a complete madhouse, does things that no one in their right mind would do. They used to routinely ask my opinions and then completely ignore them - very frustrating. Now as time has gone by my opinions actually count for something, when I'm asked I provide and they listen - what's more they normally (not always) come to me before taking decisions on certain matters. Mainly because I try to give a balanced view, and what I say will eventually happen down the line actually happens. What I have found important to remember is that if you are going to voice your opinions, before you do, make sure you really understand where they (management or whoever) are coming from. I had an instance recently where the management wanted to do a task in a certain unintelligible way, which no one in their right mind would do. Turns out that their management had made the decision as to how to proceed so they had no say in it. I sat and talked to my boss prising out all the information I could before he asked for and I gave my opinions - based on what he said. In the words of Treebeard - never be too hasty. :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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If they hired you on as a contractor, they must have established a value to your presence, so your input - if phrased appropriately - might be welcomed.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997One would ordinarially think that, but this firm hired me as a dogs body kernel coder, and couldnt give a toss about my broader ideas about engineering the product. A product that is in fact fundamentally flawed and has been for aoer a year, yet hasnt been fixed. I can only see this prodct failing, the shares plumeting, and the company failing. It really is that bleak.
============================== Nothing to say.
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I've always felt that part of my job is to offer an opinion or to push for change that I feel would benefit the business - I see that as an important part of what I am hired for. On the other hand I feel no personal sleight if my opinion is ignored: why would I? And I don't feel that you should simply conform where you know that something is wrong and you have a solution.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
I've always felt that part of my job is to offer an opinion or to push for change that I feel would benefit the business - I see that as an important part of what I am hired for
You are a brave man Mark. I respect that. As a mortgage whore I am more tempted to toe the line. Perhaps it is my mistake, but when your contract renewal is in tha hands of a few people...
mark merrens wrote:
I don't feel that you should simply conform where you know that something is wrong and you have a solution.
I should be more mercenary. But, unfortunately, I actually care about the way I relate to people in the company. Perhaps that is also a failing of mine.
============================== Nothing to say.
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Erudite_Eric wrote:
What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done.
yes. that's what being a contract contractor is all about. you're hired to do a specific task, not to be a management consultant or to try to correct their culture. if you want to be a boss, be a boss, not a contract programmer. that's my attitude anyway. if they ask, maybe i'll tell them what i think, but i always assume the boundaries between programmer and management are a bit stricter, if i'm not a full time employee. i do the job i've been assigned, nothing more. and 'contract programmer' is quite a bit different than 'prostitute'.
-
Now a contractor, though not always so: I am more like someone's paying me to play for a living. Much better than working. I guess it's because coding is still fun and a tough problem just make the (billable) hours roll by faster. That being said . . . The following is a quote from my CodeProject 'bio': In real life, a research chemist. Bitten by the bug for instrument automation, and then numeric and kinetic modeling, I turned to the dark side (or to the light), programming all sorts of lovely things. Alas, one needs to make a living, so off I went to POS, and now, the insurance industry. Doing now for money what I used to do simply for pleasure - not much different than a cheap hooker. For that matter, what jobs aren't either (1) selling yourself (paid by another), or (2) self-imposed legal slavery (self employed)? Next time, be born rich - don't make the same mistakes twice! So there you have the answer.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
Next time, be born rich
Or make yourself rich by property development, doing the hard work yourslef, and stock market investement, then you can give the world the middle finger. I am doing that right now. :)
============================== Nothing to say.
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Ohh of course. I mean, the place where I'm working currently is a complete madhouse, does things that no one in their right mind would do. They used to routinely ask my opinions and then completely ignore them - very frustrating. Now as time has gone by my opinions actually count for something, when I'm asked I provide and they listen - what's more they normally (not always) come to me before taking decisions on certain matters. Mainly because I try to give a balanced view, and what I say will eventually happen down the line actually happens. What I have found important to remember is that if you are going to voice your opinions, before you do, make sure you really understand where they (management or whoever) are coming from. I had an instance recently where the management wanted to do a task in a certain unintelligible way, which no one in their right mind would do. Turns out that their management had made the decision as to how to proceed so they had no say in it. I sat and talked to my boss prising out all the information I could before he asked for and I gave my opinions - based on what he said. In the words of Treebeard - never be too hasty. :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
You have a level of comprehension of people that I fear is beyond me. I am too simple, too straight, too idealistic perhaps to understand, yet I need to. Life is nothing but an education. Thankyou for your words, I will take them on board.
============================== Nothing to say.
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I've always felt that part of my job is to offer an opinion or to push for change that I feel would benefit the business - I see that as an important part of what I am hired for. On the other hand I feel no personal sleight if my opinion is ignored: why would I? And I don't feel that you should simply conform where you know that something is wrong and you have a solution.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
I've always felt that part of my job is to offer an opinion or to push for change that I feel would benefit the business - I see that as an important part of what I am hired for.
I agree. Maybe I have just had good luck getting senior software engineering contract jobs or as team-leader (or both together). Either way, these jobs always contain leeway to set the path of the software/system and how to go about everyday work to get to the finish line. This often means introducting changes, or improving in areas which would benefit the company. Of course things that are well beyond my "jurisdiction" and obviously crazy as heck I stay away from. Why telling the management *truths* unless it is something that directly affect my team or myself ( in which case it is my job to deal with it)
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I dont mean the true consultant roles, I mean the 'employee' roles, where for months, years, you have to sit there and suffer the injustice of ill opinion, poor management, and technical ballsery, just because if you told it like it is, you would be out the door, yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind. What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done. Anyone else felt so trapped as that?
============================== Nothing to say.
Yes, absolutely, I used to. I used to live or die by the whims of a client, "backed up" by management who knew they had to capitulate or lose the client. It was terrible: I was porting (to Python) this awful hybrid of compiled FORTRAN DLLs and legacy VB and questionably-sourced OCXes, and of course the whole original thing was bug-riddled and nobody at the originating company knew how the whole thing worked or how to fix it. So the project was basically doomed, and every week we'd have to get them to come back with more money to pay us for the things they decided we also needed to implement or change. They kept coming back, I'm convinced, because they had already sunk so much into it that they were committed to finishing the project. We knew we were whores. We just whitewashed it by calling it consulting. You need code? Dirty, dirty code? We'll do it your way, but it won't be free. Then I got the ambition to get a "real job". I'm very happy to work for one company, not two or more companies. I only have one boss. That being said, the machine works similarly because I have "internal customers" except I don't have this sense of doom, nor a dirty feeling that can't be washed off. I'm doing work that my coworkers need, that the company is going to use, and I can be proud of that. So... the previous job was horrible, but I got this job because I had worked the previous job. Be thankful for the experience you gain because it's actually worth something on your resume and at your interview. (Badmouthing them is not good at an interview.) There's always a customer for your work, whether it's internal or external to your company. A paycheck is a paycheck, and a crappy job can be a stepping stone to a better job.
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I dont mean the true consultant roles, I mean the 'employee' roles, where for months, years, you have to sit there and suffer the injustice of ill opinion, poor management, and technical ballsery, just because if you told it like it is, you would be out the door, yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind. What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done. Anyone else felt so trapped as that?
============================== Nothing to say.
Well, I'm retired now but when I was contracting I could never find a company that would agree to provide one.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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Yes, absolutely, I used to. I used to live or die by the whims of a client, "backed up" by management who knew they had to capitulate or lose the client. It was terrible: I was porting (to Python) this awful hybrid of compiled FORTRAN DLLs and legacy VB and questionably-sourced OCXes, and of course the whole original thing was bug-riddled and nobody at the originating company knew how the whole thing worked or how to fix it. So the project was basically doomed, and every week we'd have to get them to come back with more money to pay us for the things they decided we also needed to implement or change. They kept coming back, I'm convinced, because they had already sunk so much into it that they were committed to finishing the project. We knew we were whores. We just whitewashed it by calling it consulting. You need code? Dirty, dirty code? We'll do it your way, but it won't be free. Then I got the ambition to get a "real job". I'm very happy to work for one company, not two or more companies. I only have one boss. That being said, the machine works similarly because I have "internal customers" except I don't have this sense of doom, nor a dirty feeling that can't be washed off. I'm doing work that my coworkers need, that the company is going to use, and I can be proud of that. So... the previous job was horrible, but I got this job because I had worked the previous job. Be thankful for the experience you gain because it's actually worth something on your resume and at your interview. (Badmouthing them is not good at an interview.) There's always a customer for your work, whether it's internal or external to your company. A paycheck is a paycheck, and a crappy job can be a stepping stone to a better job.
djdanlib wrote:
a dirty feeling that can't be washed off
Yeah, I am struggling for a symbolic shower right now.
djdanlib wrote:
A paycheck is a paycheck, and a crappy job can be a stepping stone to a better job.
Wise words. Let me keep my head while those around me lose theirs. Then I will be a man. (To paraphase Kipling I believe it was.) But indeed, keep it real. I find it hard to maintian my distance in a contract you know. I let it get to me. I know I shouldnt, but it happens. Thanks, I will try to keep what you say in mind.
============================== Nothing to say.
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I dont mean the true consultant roles, I mean the 'employee' roles, where for months, years, you have to sit there and suffer the injustice of ill opinion, poor management, and technical ballsery, just because if you told it like it is, you would be out the door, yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind. What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done. Anyone else felt so trapped as that?
============================== Nothing to say.
I wouldn't go that far, but I've had to deal with crazy problems and policies before. At a past job, I contracted for a company whose business strategy revolved around underpaying their full-time employees for as much as they could get away with, and then when their best employees quit, they would hire temporary contractors (at market rate) to fix and improve stuff that nobody was taking care of. They would then tell the remaining full-time employees (who we had to work with to accomplish things) that they had just hired contractors for triple their salaries who would show them how to do stuff right (which certainly helped the teamwork and morale). And, on top of that, the biggest problems were with communication and processes moreso than software (which is saying a lot, considering how hacked up the software was). I think I did a good job there, all things considered, but there's only so much you can do for people who set themselves up for that much pain.
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I dont mean the true consultant roles, I mean the 'employee' roles, where for months, years, you have to sit there and suffer the injustice of ill opinion, poor management, and technical ballsery, just because if you told it like it is, you would be out the door, yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind. What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done. Anyone else felt so trapped as that?
============================== Nothing to say.
50 dollaa and me typee typee. Me help u long time. Yo no have crashes no more. Me fixy yo shystem leal good. Yo collegue can watch bat he hat to pay 20 dolla.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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One would ordinarially think that, but this firm hired me as a dogs body kernel coder, and couldnt give a toss about my broader ideas about engineering the product. A product that is in fact fundamentally flawed and has been for aoer a year, yet hasnt been fixed. I can only see this prodct failing, the shares plumeting, and the company failing. It really is that bleak.
============================== Nothing to say.
On the up-side, you're just a contractor...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I dont mean the true consultant roles, I mean the 'employee' roles, where for months, years, you have to sit there and suffer the injustice of ill opinion, poor management, and technical ballsery, just because if you told it like it is, you would be out the door, yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind. What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done. Anyone else felt so trapped as that?
============================== Nothing to say.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind.
Where I am the law is "at will". That means that the employee can leave anytime they want and the employer can fire anytime they want (excluding certain causes based on identification bias.) So permanent isn't protected. If you don't like it somewhere then your choices are to put up with it, try to effect change or find some place else to work. Again for where I am am that is true for employees as well as contractors.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
...and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done.
This of course supposes that they really do in fact need to be done. Rather than something that someone wants to do. Businesses are in the business of making money, not software. Some development change that might seem like it would be more 'effective' for the business (in some way actually improving the bottom line) are almost always very hard to prove. If there isn't any real expectation that it will improve the bottom line then by itself such a change shouldn't be undertaken by the business. Of course morale is something that has been shown to improve the bottom line. Happier employees, regardless of why, will impact the business in a positive way.
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I dont mean the true consultant roles, I mean the 'employee' roles, where for months, years, you have to sit there and suffer the injustice of ill opinion, poor management, and technical ballsery, just because if you told it like it is, you would be out the door, yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind. What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done. Anyone else felt so trapped as that?
============================== Nothing to say.
In my previous contracts yes, I felt that way, that I was just a drone / peon and that was it.. Current position, I am contracted, however due to team make up, what I "suggest" or think up does matter :) . Over all, can't complain where I am currently. :)
///////////////// -Negative, I am a meat popsicle.
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I dont mean the true consultant roles, I mean the 'employee' roles, where for months, years, you have to sit there and suffer the injustice of ill opinion, poor management, and technical ballsery, just because if you told it like it is, you would be out the door, yet in a permie job, you have relative free rein to speak your mind. What I am getting at is that as a contractor in this stuation you are ecpected to conform to whatever warped cultural zeitegeist is in place and not start to impose the changes you know need to be done. Anyone else felt so trapped as that?
============================== Nothing to say.
Think of it more like being a "Hit Man"
All of my software is powered by a single Watt.
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Yeah, it pays less.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
would you PAHLEAAASEE be quiet? :)
Charlie Gilley You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house. "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
