Wikipedia's blackout effort sends the wrong message.
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That's all well and good, but... would you mind explaining that to my boss? He seemed more interested on getting the information we needed for a call involving a lot of money.
I understand if you are talking about sites other than wikipedia though. Not everyone made it clear to bypass or gave permission, and that was their right to do so in the face of legislation threatening their existence. Wikipedia was pretty classy about it I thought giving advanced notice and explaining to anyone who saw the notice how to turn it off.
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While I admit that I haven't read the legislation (I've got better things to do) I supported the protest based on my general libertarian stance. But I do agree with you that work still needs to be done. And the website nonsense is a litle annoying.
I have read parts of the legislation, at least the parts which can affect me and I think the legislation is a horrible thing which is far to vague, something a few lawyer friends of mine agree on. I supported the protest and I think that it was a great idea to show that we the people are outraged. The implementation of the protest could have used a little more though. In the end, I still have to show up for work and get things done.
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The fact that the black-screen-of-protest can so easily be circumvented sends out a message that I'm sure SOPA/PIPA supporters will use. Namely
"It doesn't matter if the odd site gets taken down those clever internet users will find a way to continue working."
I didn't even see the message until I deliberately turned off NoScript so that I could see what they had done. For protests of this type to be effective, they must be real. Difficult for a commercial organization to justify for money many reasons but for a Not For Profit outfit like Wiki they should have really gone dark.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
We should have bribed the DNS root admins to censor the entire US government, instead.
When posting here, I do not represent anybody but myself.
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I understand if you are talking about sites other than wikipedia though. Not everyone made it clear to bypass or gave permission, and that was their right to do so in the face of legislation threatening their existence. Wikipedia was pretty classy about it I thought giving advanced notice and explaining to anyone who saw the notice how to turn it off.
Like I said in a post above, I hadn't even gone to wikipedia yesterday so couldn't speak to how they were handling things. Google handled it pretty classy with their doodle, turning down their crawler so it didn't negatively affect those who were participating in the protests. They showed they were not happy with the legislation, provided a method on how to contact your representatives, and didn't inconvenience their customers. All the sites I had a problem with were non-wiki. I agree with the principle of the protest, it was the implementation that drove me nuts. Think of it in a real world perspective. You were a dock worker out near Oakland, all the protesters come down and block the way in and out of the port, your boss tells you that because you can't get work done, he isn't going to pay you. A little more extreme than in my case, but I didn't have the requested information for a meeting. It reflected poorly upon me for a situation that was out of my control. If I had to make a snap recommendation, by participating in that protest yesterday I could not recommend any of the technologies on sites that were blacked out and did not provide an alternative. Fortunately I didn't have to make a snap decision.
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Like I said in a post above, I hadn't even gone to wikipedia yesterday so couldn't speak to how they were handling things. Google handled it pretty classy with their doodle, turning down their crawler so it didn't negatively affect those who were participating in the protests. They showed they were not happy with the legislation, provided a method on how to contact your representatives, and didn't inconvenience their customers. All the sites I had a problem with were non-wiki. I agree with the principle of the protest, it was the implementation that drove me nuts. Think of it in a real world perspective. You were a dock worker out near Oakland, all the protesters come down and block the way in and out of the port, your boss tells you that because you can't get work done, he isn't going to pay you. A little more extreme than in my case, but I didn't have the requested information for a meeting. It reflected poorly upon me for a situation that was out of my control. If I had to make a snap recommendation, by participating in that protest yesterday I could not recommend any of the technologies on sites that were blacked out and did not provide an alternative. Fortunately I didn't have to make a snap decision.
I do hear you. I wish we were not in this situation at all. The sad fact is, the legislative pending would have done just what you don't want, sites taken out with no fair warning or notice, some likely for good. The bills were not about making copyright infringement illegal, as there are already laws about that and legal processes to use. This was about bypassing all those and making a MPAA, RIAA Murdoch mafia to appease or risk having your website shut down with no notice, allowing them to seize entire domains, immunizing ISPs from violating free speech and privacy, etc., and changing DNS to be less secure so they could have better off switches. I do understand what you are saying. If this legislation had passed many more websites would be much less reliable though.
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Well, the point was that many of the blacked out sites were trying to show what it would be like without them or things like them. Those bills directly threatened people's ability to make information available, since hollywood and RIAA could take them down by posting a few links and making allegations. Even without links the burden of proof and due process would be removed, and little companies don't have the team of lawyers to fight them and eventually get their website back. Copyright troll heaven is what they were trying to create, locking and jacking up the cost of information for everyone. If any sites you really like were affected, it's a wake up call to watch Congress closely, since they can't agree on anything for the people, but give them a few million and they'll pass anything they don't understand without our watchful eye.
AA 2 wrote:
since they can't agree on anything for the people, but give them a few million and they'll pass anything they don't understand without our watchful eye.
Hey - look on the bright side: This is the only bi-partisan stuff they do!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I do hear you. I wish we were not in this situation at all. The sad fact is, the legislative pending would have done just what you don't want, sites taken out with no fair warning or notice, some likely for good. The bills were not about making copyright infringement illegal, as there are already laws about that and legal processes to use. This was about bypassing all those and making a MPAA, RIAA Murdoch mafia to appease or risk having your website shut down with no notice, allowing them to seize entire domains, immunizing ISPs from violating free speech and privacy, etc., and changing DNS to be less secure so they could have better off switches. I do understand what you are saying. If this legislation had passed many more websites would be much less reliable though.
I agree with what you have said. I also think that the MPAA/RIAA/etc. are still trying to use an outdated business model and demanding that our government legislate to protect them from having to innovate. If there was ever an example of why this is a horrible bit of legislation it was a few weeks ago. One of the RIAA members issued a takedown notice for a video of one of their artists, airing his opinions that had been posted to a site. The video was taken down even though they had NO right to demand such. When questioned by a judge, their reaction was pretty much "We do what we want! You aren't the boss of us!" Apparently a lot of people don't agree with the rant I posted above, but I still think I was justified in posting it. The bottom line of all this is, when you want to protest make sure you do not inconvenience the people who are around you. It just makes you look like a jerk who doesn't care about them. Raise awareness, encourage action, but never browbeat. That just makes it much easier to just walk away and ignore you.
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I do hear you. I wish we were not in this situation at all. The sad fact is, the legislative pending would have done just what you don't want, sites taken out with no fair warning or notice, some likely for good. The bills were not about making copyright infringement illegal, as there are already laws about that and legal processes to use. This was about bypassing all those and making a MPAA, RIAA Murdoch mafia to appease or risk having your website shut down with no notice, allowing them to seize entire domains, immunizing ISPs from violating free speech and privacy, etc., and changing DNS to be less secure so they could have better off switches. I do understand what you are saying. If this legislation had passed many more websites would be much less reliable though.
Speaking of terrible legislation, let's match that with terrible court decisions! "Congress may take books, musical compositions and other works out of the public domain, where they can be freely used and adapted, and grant them copyright status again, the Supreme Court ruled Wednesday." http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/supreme-court-rules-congress-can-re-copyright-public-domain-works.ars[^]
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The fact that the black-screen-of-protest can so easily be circumvented sends out a message that I'm sure SOPA/PIPA supporters will use. Namely
"It doesn't matter if the odd site gets taken down those clever internet users will find a way to continue working."
I didn't even see the message until I deliberately turned off NoScript so that I could see what they had done. For protests of this type to be effective, they must be real. Difficult for a commercial organization to justify for money many reasons but for a Not For Profit outfit like Wiki they should have really gone dark.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
Actually, I think the message is right on point. Should any site be taken down, users, both legitimate and not, will take whatever means are necessary to circumvent the problem. Laws codify the punishment, but do not prevent the activity itself. A common joke that we make in the summertime when leaving the windows down in the car but locking the doors out of habit and someone mentions it, is to say "It keeps the honest people out."
I don't claim to be a know it all, for I know that I am not...
I usually have an answer though.
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I agree with what you have said. I also think that the MPAA/RIAA/etc. are still trying to use an outdated business model and demanding that our government legislate to protect them from having to innovate. If there was ever an example of why this is a horrible bit of legislation it was a few weeks ago. One of the RIAA members issued a takedown notice for a video of one of their artists, airing his opinions that had been posted to a site. The video was taken down even though they had NO right to demand such. When questioned by a judge, their reaction was pretty much "We do what we want! You aren't the boss of us!" Apparently a lot of people don't agree with the rant I posted above, but I still think I was justified in posting it. The bottom line of all this is, when you want to protest make sure you do not inconvenience the people who are around you. It just makes you look like a jerk who doesn't care about them. Raise awareness, encourage action, but never browbeat. That just makes it much easier to just walk away and ignore you.
You are very right, the Fed/RIAA collaboration already abuses what power they have and are stretching to be less accountable for doing moreso. http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111208/08225217010/breaking-news-feds-falsely-censor-popular-blog-over-year-deny-all-due-process-hide-all-details.shtml I wish everyone had stuck to Wikipedia style class though, giving easy options and express permission to bypass, but it's hard to get mad at anyone who with-held services they provide free every day to defend themselves and get people to notice. It seems like people will ignore anything as long as it doesn't inconvenience them right now. I can't get mad at the websites with-holding free services while Congress gets paid hundreds of thousands per person for bickering about nothing and everything, shutting down for early long long vacations, refusing to show up to vote when they don't have an argument or enough support, and then all of sudden sending these bills form both parties and both houses after the MIAA/RIAA woos them with hundreds of thousands of dollars and a multi-million dollar lobbying effort. I reserve my disgust and hard feelings for Congress that they would try to pull this and the mainstream "news" for downplaying what these bills really were so much.
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The fact that the black-screen-of-protest can so easily be circumvented sends out a message that I'm sure SOPA/PIPA supporters will use. Namely
"It doesn't matter if the odd site gets taken down those clever internet users will find a way to continue working."
I didn't even see the message until I deliberately turned off NoScript so that I could see what they had done. For protests of this type to be effective, they must be real. Difficult for a commercial organization to justify for money many reasons but for a Not For Profit outfit like Wiki they should have really gone dark.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
"For protests of this type to be effective, they must be real." Wrong. The point was made very well with what they did, and it was effective: This current attempt to pass fascist Internet-censorship laws was abandoned. The intent of these laws was to have a legal excuse for corporations and government to shut down the websites of pesky citizen activists organizing opposition to their fascist agenda. The censorship attempts will continue. Look for more more laws that attempt to do the same thing. Soon.
"Microsoft -- Adding unnecessary complexity to your work since 1987!"
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At least they have it circumventable. I have run up against a few pages which are entirely blacked out for this protest. Yes there is that briefest of brief seconds between the load and the "We are protesting!" page, but I'm not quite fast enough to hit escape during the millisecond required. This protest is all well and good, but some of us have WORK to get done. I propose a counter protest. Any site which has the protest up which does not make an alternative available for those of us who need to get things done, get boycotted from now until forever. :mad: Flippin idiots.
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The fact that the black-screen-of-protest can so easily be circumvented sends out a message that I'm sure SOPA/PIPA supporters will use. Namely
"It doesn't matter if the odd site gets taken down those clever internet users will find a way to continue working."
I didn't even see the message until I deliberately turned off NoScript so that I could see what they had done. For protests of this type to be effective, they must be real. Difficult for a commercial organization to justify for money many reasons but for a Not For Profit outfit like Wiki they should have really gone dark.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
There was plenty of coverage on the major networks & cable news programs, many highlighting unintended consequences such as extensive blacklisting of sites for inadvertently including a snippet or image of copyrighted material. The Daily Show's Jon Stewart skewered some of the bills' red-faced sponsors, who stated on video that they should have consulted with "the nerds" before proceeding with the legislation. Stewart aptly corrected their reference to experts (rather than "nerds"). He went on to lampoon some of the bills' unintended consequences.
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And what will you do when in the name of PIPA someone will shutdown Wikipedia forever ?
Gordon
Because if they didn't shut down the sites entirely, SOPA/PIPA would have passed. From indications, the legislations were losing a lot of steam and key backers had already withdrawn support before the blackouts ever happened. Again, my rant was NOT aimed towards Wikipedia. I have stated that multiple times. Wikipedia had a work around for those who needed to use it. Google showed their protest in a manner that would not inconvenience people but still brought attention to the general public. There are ways that you can show your viewpoint without snubbing your nose at everyone else. There is this thing called compromise. Just because one side is acting outragious shouldn't give you cause to do something outragious in the opposite direction. That is what tears people apart instead of bring them together as a whole.
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Half-assed effort for Half-brained legislation.
No comment
Why do you think they are politicians? If they had more brains, they would have a real job. This may be why no one wants to vote for them. Its just a matter of picking the lesser of the evils.