Can you take the truth?
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Dalek Dave wrote:
and I perhaps ought to be very careful about how I put this
Mark is fine though shitface, bastard, wanker, etc, etc, have all been used instead. :-) Your world view apprears to be strangely union jack coloured - very amusing. Area 52, apparently. :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Hey, the English Knights looked after the holy grail too!
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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I have given it a pre-emptive 5, as I am sure some ess will hit the eff in due course. Although some historical shortcuts have been taken, it is, in essence, a decent summary. Having spent twenty years working in the Middle East, and the last ten living next door, I have taken the trouble to educate myself on the region's history. Something that interests/amuses me is that the Israelis have never made mention of the treatment of Jews under Islam for the previous 13 centuries. I am aware of at least 20 major pogroms. A reading of Robert Wistrich's Islamic Judeophobia: An Existential Threat is most informative.
Thanks: nice to get an informed viewpoint.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Hey, the English Knights looked after the holy grail too!
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
Methinks you've been watching too much Monty Python! :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Methinks you've been watching too much Monty Python! :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I was thinking more of Indiana Jones. But yeah, they both apply. Clippity Clop Clippity Clop.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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I was thinking more of Indiana Jones. But yeah, they both apply. Clippity Clop Clippity Clop.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
Aren't they fundamentally the same thing? :=)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Fair point. But having said that can you point out the lies and correct them?
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Not for me to do because I don't have anywhere near enough knowledge on the subject. I think my point was more that each side will have it's highly biased views and that the truth, like most situations in life, lies somewhere in between on each claim.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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Wall of Truth[^]. I'm pretty sure this will get some heated responses but that's fine - that's why we're here. I agree with everything here and have thought so for a long time - in particular what they have termed myth 3 is one that has always angered me - how long can you keep holding out an olive branch when it is never enough? Anyway, enjoy or other wise - I'm off to the gym. :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Nice try, but the truth is that no amount of propaganda and false claims can justify the existence of the Zionist entity. Israel has no right to exist in Palestine.
I presume you down voted me. No problem; but can you refute each and every claim with facts as opposed to hyperbole and vitriole? For instance, there has never actually been a country called Palestine so how can Israel, a legitimate democratic country, not have the right to exist? BTW, what gives you the right to say that it should not exist? Is that something you'd be willing to undertake personally? In any case I note that you cut to the chase and admitted that the sole cause of the 'palestinian' movement is the eradication of Israel and the Jews. Well played giving it up so early.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Not for me to do because I don't have anywhere near enough knowledge on the subject. I think my point was more that each side will have it's highly biased views and that the truth, like most situations in life, lies somewhere in between on each claim.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
So, on the one hand you criticise my post by saying it is clearly biased but offer nothing to back that up. Interesting.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I presume you down voted me. No problem; but can you refute each and every claim with facts as opposed to hyperbole and vitriole? For instance, there has never actually been a country called Palestine so how can Israel, a legitimate democratic country, not have the right to exist? BTW, what gives you the right to say that it should not exist? Is that something you'd be willing to undertake personally? In any case I note that you cut to the chase and admitted that the sole cause of the 'palestinian' movement is the eradication of Israel and the Jews. Well played giving it up so early.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
First, yes, I downvoted your post. I usually do not do that, but whenever I encounter a blind Israeli supporter, it makes me go mad. Second, if you can read my post again carefully, you'll realize that I never said Israel has no right to exist. Third, since you have made up your mind that Israel has the right to exist for whatsoever reason (simply because you presume that it is the only democracy in the region), no amount of fact telling is gonna make you accept the facts. You have to help yourself on that. Fourth, in essence, where were the Zionists living before Israel came into existence? If they did not live in Palestine, then the fact screams for itself that these Zionists have the right to live in their own homeland where they came from (Germany, Austria, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Russia, America, other parts of Europe, etc.), but not in Palestine. And yes, the native Jews who have been living in Palestine for ages have the right to live in Palestine and they continue to voice their opposition to Israel. Fifth, a little unbiased research on the subject will make you comeback and downvote your own post. Sixth, I'm sure that your views about Israel would have just been the opposite had Israel been established in New York or in London. Seventh, I repeat, Israel has no right to exist in Palestine.
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Wall of Truth[^]. I'm pretty sure this will get some heated responses but that's fine - that's why we're here. I agree with everything here and have thought so for a long time - in particular what they have termed myth 3 is one that has always angered me - how long can you keep holding out an olive branch when it is never enough? Anyway, enjoy or other wise - I'm off to the gym. :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
- Part BS. The Israelis doubled the size of Israel in the arab israeli war. So what ever you call 'palestine' and it is a word as routed in history as 'Belgium' or 'Yougoslavia' in that they are all post strife created countries, the Israelis ARE occupying a large part of it, illegally according to the UN. As for the rest. yeah, as far as I could maintain the enthusiasm to read, they seem valid. But why the pro Israeli resurgance Mark? I thought that although you are Jewish you couldnt give much of a toss for the religion of the country? Personally, I dont give much of a toss. Might is right in anyones book, and if the rag heads cant keep the yids out then they should fight better. Bunch of darkages religious nutters the lot of them. I could wish on either a better neoghbour, hope they blow each other to hell and save the rest of the cynical world the grief of contemplating their tawdry problems. --edit-- Of course which country ISNT falsely created? They are all assumptions. England? A phrase created by Alfred composing of Saxony Anglia, Mercia and Northumbria. France? A Germanic tribe from Aachen called the Franks. Holland? Was origionally just 7 states. The US? THe ultimate created country. So what of Palestine was made up after the collapse of the Ottoman empire? Doent make it any less a valid state. And on and on and on. New Zealand? Named after Zealand, an island in Holland. And on and on and on. Privided their is national identity, and God knows Belgium hasnt, and the UK has its own north south divide, a country is a country for the sake of argument.
============================== Nothing to say.
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- Part BS. The Israelis doubled the size of Israel in the arab israeli war. So what ever you call 'palestine' and it is a word as routed in history as 'Belgium' or 'Yougoslavia' in that they are all post strife created countries, the Israelis ARE occupying a large part of it, illegally according to the UN. As for the rest. yeah, as far as I could maintain the enthusiasm to read, they seem valid. But why the pro Israeli resurgance Mark? I thought that although you are Jewish you couldnt give much of a toss for the religion of the country? Personally, I dont give much of a toss. Might is right in anyones book, and if the rag heads cant keep the yids out then they should fight better. Bunch of darkages religious nutters the lot of them. I could wish on either a better neoghbour, hope they blow each other to hell and save the rest of the cynical world the grief of contemplating their tawdry problems. --edit-- Of course which country ISNT falsely created? They are all assumptions. England? A phrase created by Alfred composing of Saxony Anglia, Mercia and Northumbria. France? A Germanic tribe from Aachen called the Franks. Holland? Was origionally just 7 states. The US? THe ultimate created country. So what of Palestine was made up after the collapse of the Ottoman empire? Doent make it any less a valid state. And on and on and on. New Zealand? Named after Zealand, an island in Holland. And on and on and on. Privided their is national identity, and God knows Belgium hasnt, and the UK has its own north south divide, a country is a country for the sake of argument.
============================== Nothing to say.
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I presume you down voted me. No problem; but can you refute each and every claim with facts as opposed to hyperbole and vitriole? For instance, there has never actually been a country called Palestine so how can Israel, a legitimate democratic country, not have the right to exist? BTW, what gives you the right to say that it should not exist? Is that something you'd be willing to undertake personally? In any case I note that you cut to the chase and admitted that the sole cause of the 'palestinian' movement is the eradication of Israel and the Jews. Well played giving it up so early.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
If Palestine, a British post Ottoman Mandate is a false country, then Israel is even more false, since itself is just part of the Ottoman empire and even younger! Really Mark, try to use a bit of logic! :) And yes, Israel is an act of guilt by the west for refusing entry to som many Jews trying to flee Germany, as well as a act of connivance by the British in wanting a US backed state between the Russians and the British territories to the south.
============================== Nothing to say.
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I have given it a pre-emptive 5, as I am sure some ess will hit the eff in due course. Although some historical shortcuts have been taken, it is, in essence, a decent summary. Having spent twenty years working in the Middle East, and the last ten living next door, I have taken the trouble to educate myself on the region's history. Something that interests/amuses me is that the Israelis have never made mention of the treatment of Jews under Islam for the previous 13 centuries. I am aware of at least 20 major pogroms. A reading of Robert Wistrich's Islamic Judeophobia: An Existential Threat is most informative.
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Yeah. If the Arabs want the land back just wade in and take it. Who gives a toss? I dont.
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Ironically, the occupying Zionists are hailed as heroes and the resisting Arabs are branded as terrorists. Think about it.
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Fair point. But having said that can you point out the lies and correct them?
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
can you point out the lies
''Lies' is too strong a word, often it is merely a difference of interpretation. For example: Since Roman times ... there has never been a political entity – neither a province nor a state – called 'Palestine' ... Presumably the author deliberately dismissed the British Mandate for Palestine. Under this Palestine and Transjordan were certainly 'political entities', and each was administered as a separate entity. My interpretation is that Palestine existed as a 'political entity' from 1922. There never was an Arab country called 'Palestine' or inhabited by 'Palestinians'. Before the creation of the Palestine Liberation Organization in 1964, which was sixteen years after the birth of Israel, no Arab political entity was called by that name. First Arab Palestine National Congress, Jerusalem, 1919. My interpretation is that the members Palestine National Congress considered themselves (and were certainly considered by the British) to be Palestinians.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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If Palestine, a British post Ottoman Mandate is a false country, then Israel is even more false, since itself is just part of the Ottoman empire and even younger! Really Mark, try to use a bit of logic! :) And yes, Israel is an act of guilt by the west for refusing entry to som many Jews trying to flee Germany, as well as a act of connivance by the British in wanting a US backed state between the Russians and the British territories to the south.
============================== Nothing to say.
Simply becuase the British called it Palestine for the sake of politics doesn't make it real! You are using a single instance of history to justify everything else. An act of guilt? How can thr Balfour declaration of 1917 be an act of guilt for WWII???
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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First, yes, I downvoted your post. I usually do not do that, but whenever I encounter a blind Israeli supporter, it makes me go mad. Second, if you can read my post again carefully, you'll realize that I never said Israel has no right to exist. Third, since you have made up your mind that Israel has the right to exist for whatsoever reason (simply because you presume that it is the only democracy in the region), no amount of fact telling is gonna make you accept the facts. You have to help yourself on that. Fourth, in essence, where were the Zionists living before Israel came into existence? If they did not live in Palestine, then the fact screams for itself that these Zionists have the right to live in their own homeland where they came from (Germany, Austria, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Russia, America, other parts of Europe, etc.), but not in Palestine. And yes, the native Jews who have been living in Palestine for ages have the right to live in Palestine and they continue to voice their opposition to Israel. Fifth, a little unbiased research on the subject will make you comeback and downvote your own post. Sixth, I'm sure that your views about Israel would have just been the opposite had Israel been established in New York or in London. Seventh, I repeat, Israel has no right to exist in Palestine.
Shameel wrote:
whenever I encounter a blind Palestinian supporter
Works both ways. What is this Palestine you speak of? I can't find it in any book prior to the 1960s. Zionists? Most 'Zionists' lived all over, inclusing in Arab countries where, quite regulalrly, they were huntd down and exterminated fr no other reason than being Jews.
Shameel wrote:
Fifth, a little unbiased research on the subject will make you comeback and downvote your own post.
I think you must be smoking some funny stuuf if you think that will happen. I speak for the facts: not the hyperbole and vitriole which is bandied about.
Shameel wrote:
Sixth, I'm sure that your views about Israel would have just been the opposite had Israel been established in New York or in London.
That's a nonsense diversion from the facts which you should try to stick to.
Shameel wrote:
Seventh, I repeat, Israel has no right to exist in Palestine.
And again, a bald statement don't make it so. Why? I would point out that when Isarel gained independence in 1948 the first the Arabs did was invade. As part of that they either killed or expelled virtually every jew in their territory. Seems t me you want it all your own way.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
