So try some of these...
-
You haven't yet answered any of my points in my original reply yet Mark. The Arab Muslims, the Arab Christians and the Arab Jews had been living in the Palestinian land for more than a millenium (even though there was no country called 'Palestine' according to you). The European Jews were mass imported by Theodor Herzl hardly a hundred years ago. Will you deny that Mark? "Research" is the golden word for you.
And you haven't answered asingle one of my points. However, It was never called Paletsine and all of the countries in that area are made up: none of them really existed as political entities over a hundred years ago. And all of those Arabs that stayed within Israels borders now enjoy unparalleled freedoms in Israel that you can't find in one single other Arab country. There is complete freedom of religious expression, for instance. Would I be free, do you suppose, to be a practicing Jew in Gaza? And each and every time the muslims mount an attack on Israel withe sole intention of wiping them out they get repulsed and then start bleating about how they lost all that land and can we have it back? Well, no, you can't. You want peace then make peace.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
And you haven't answered asingle one of my points. However, It was never called Paletsine and all of the countries in that area are made up: none of them really existed as political entities over a hundred years ago. And all of those Arabs that stayed within Israels borders now enjoy unparalleled freedoms in Israel that you can't find in one single other Arab country. There is complete freedom of religious expression, for instance. Would I be free, do you suppose, to be a practicing Jew in Gaza? And each and every time the muslims mount an attack on Israel withe sole intention of wiping them out they get repulsed and then start bleating about how they lost all that land and can we have it back? Well, no, you can't. You want peace then make peace.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
And you haven't answered asingle one of my points.
You haven't asked any questions yet that deserve an answer. You've so far just expressed your opinions about how great a country Israel is just because it allows religious freedom irrespective of the fact that the entire land is stolen from the Arab natives of the land.
mark merrens wrote:
However, It was never called Paletsine and all of the countries in that area are made up: none of them really existed as political entities over a hundred years ago.
Ever heard of Ottoman Empire? Please get a dose of history before coming back and posting something so naive again.
mark merrens wrote:
And all of those Arabs that stayed within Israels borders now enjoy unparalleled freedoms in Israel that you can't find in one single other Arab country.
Only in the American Press, not in reality. According to its own Constitution, Israel is a Jewish State where Jews are given preferential treatment over gentiles.
mark merrens wrote:
There is complete freedom of religious expression, for instance. Would I be free, do you suppose, to be a practicing Jew in Gaza?
Again, it only exposes you ignorance of history. Arab Jews have been living in Palestine for time unknown. You can never deny the fact that the European Jews never lived in Palestine. Just because someone's holy scripture mentions it as promised land, it doesn't belong to them Mark. It is as absurd as Muslims claiming New York to be their homeland just because their holy scripture says so.
-
mark merrens wrote:
And you haven't answered asingle one of my points.
You haven't asked any questions yet that deserve an answer. You've so far just expressed your opinions about how great a country Israel is just because it allows religious freedom irrespective of the fact that the entire land is stolen from the Arab natives of the land.
mark merrens wrote:
However, It was never called Paletsine and all of the countries in that area are made up: none of them really existed as political entities over a hundred years ago.
Ever heard of Ottoman Empire? Please get a dose of history before coming back and posting something so naive again.
mark merrens wrote:
And all of those Arabs that stayed within Israels borders now enjoy unparalleled freedoms in Israel that you can't find in one single other Arab country.
Only in the American Press, not in reality. According to its own Constitution, Israel is a Jewish State where Jews are given preferential treatment over gentiles.
mark merrens wrote:
There is complete freedom of religious expression, for instance. Would I be free, do you suppose, to be a practicing Jew in Gaza?
Again, it only exposes you ignorance of history. Arab Jews have been living in Palestine for time unknown. You can never deny the fact that the European Jews never lived in Palestine. Just because someone's holy scripture mentions it as promised land, it doesn't belong to them Mark. It is as absurd as Muslims claiming New York to be their homeland just because their holy scripture says so.
Shameel wrote:
You haven't asked any questions yet that deserve an answer.
Think that might signal the end of the conversation: you dissemble constantly; no point in discussing if all you do is ignore my points to press home your own without answering a single question.
Shameel wrote:
Ever heard of Ottoman Empire?
Turkish, not Arab and those countries did come into existence until after that time.
Shameel wrote:
Israel is a Jewish State where Jews are given preferential treatment over gentiles.
Outright lie: not sure where you get this but utterly untrue. Anyone living in Israel is afforded the exact same freedoms and rights as anyone else, regardless of religion. Typical palestinian propoganda: tell a lie often enough and it become the accpeted truth.
Shameel wrote:
Again, it only exposes you ignorance of history.
And yet you continue to dissemble. Beginning to think that you won't answer, not that you can't.
Shameel wrote:
You can never deny the fact that the European Jews never lived in Palestine
Of course not but that is an entrely bogus question. However, as you can't deny that pre 1964 there was no such people as the Palestinians. Maybe you can get the Egyptians or the Jordanians to give you a bit more land to breathe in. Maybe the Sinia... Oh wait, no they already kicked you out of both.
Shameel wrote:
It is as absurd as Muslims claiming New York to be their homeland just because their holy scripture says so.
Thankkfully it doesn't though I suspect you'd prefer it did. In any case, it isn't about which ridiculous book mentions what about whom and where. The scriptures mention all sortsof nonsense as does the bible and the quran. None of it is real: they are crutches used to support outdated modes of keeping people in check. We'd all be far better off without any of them.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
And you haven't answered asingle one of my points. However, It was never called Paletsine and all of the countries in that area are made up: none of them really existed as political entities over a hundred years ago. And all of those Arabs that stayed within Israels borders now enjoy unparalleled freedoms in Israel that you can't find in one single other Arab country. There is complete freedom of religious expression, for instance. Would I be free, do you suppose, to be a practicing Jew in Gaza? And each and every time the muslims mount an attack on Israel withe sole intention of wiping them out they get repulsed and then start bleating about how they lost all that land and can we have it back? Well, no, you can't. You want peace then make peace.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
It was never called Paletsine and all of the countries in that area are made up: none of them really existed as political entities over a hundred years ago.
But the land really existed, and the people that lived on it really existed, and the laws governing the ownership of land really existed. And legal basis of this was recognised by the British when they ran Palestine, which, under the 1922 (only 90 years ago, alas) Mandate, really existed. Israel recognised the Ottoman property rights of 19th century Zionists, as well as indigenous Jews. Thus they recognised the political entities that existed over 100 years ago.
mark merrens wrote:
enjoy unparalleled freedoms in Israel that you can't find in one single other Arab country.
Freudian slip? :-D
mark merrens wrote:
You want peace then make peace.
They don't want peace, they want their land back. Israel wants peace, so that it can keep the land it has appropriated.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
-
Shameel wrote:
You haven't asked any questions yet that deserve an answer.
Think that might signal the end of the conversation: you dissemble constantly; no point in discussing if all you do is ignore my points to press home your own without answering a single question.
Shameel wrote:
Ever heard of Ottoman Empire?
Turkish, not Arab and those countries did come into existence until after that time.
Shameel wrote:
Israel is a Jewish State where Jews are given preferential treatment over gentiles.
Outright lie: not sure where you get this but utterly untrue. Anyone living in Israel is afforded the exact same freedoms and rights as anyone else, regardless of religion. Typical palestinian propoganda: tell a lie often enough and it become the accpeted truth.
Shameel wrote:
Again, it only exposes you ignorance of history.
And yet you continue to dissemble. Beginning to think that you won't answer, not that you can't.
Shameel wrote:
You can never deny the fact that the European Jews never lived in Palestine
Of course not but that is an entrely bogus question. However, as you can't deny that pre 1964 there was no such people as the Palestinians. Maybe you can get the Egyptians or the Jordanians to give you a bit more land to breathe in. Maybe the Sinia... Oh wait, no they already kicked you out of both.
Shameel wrote:
It is as absurd as Muslims claiming New York to be their homeland just because their holy scripture says so.
Thankkfully it doesn't though I suspect you'd prefer it did. In any case, it isn't about which ridiculous book mentions what about whom and where. The scriptures mention all sortsof nonsense as does the bible and the quran. None of it is real: they are crutches used to support outdated modes of keeping people in check. We'd all be far better off without any of them.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
all you do is ignore my points to press home your own without answering a single question.
You've still not realized that you've been doing the same from the beginning.
mark merrens wrote:
Outright lie: not sure where you get this but utterly untrue. Anyone living in Israel is afforded the exact same freedoms and rights as anyone else, regardless of religion. Typical palestinian propoganda: tell a lie often enough and it become the accpeted truth.
Instead of drawing your conclusions from media reports, you must either visit Palestine yourself or talk to someone who did.
mark merrens wrote:
Of course not but that is an entrely bogus question. However, as you can't deny that pre 1964 there was no such people as the Palestinians. Maybe you can get the Egyptians or the Jordanians to give you a bit more land to breathe in. Maybe the Sinia... Oh wait, no they already kicked you out of both.
At last, you agree that the European Jews never lived there. But the Indigenous Arabs, Christians and Jews have been living there from time unknown, eventhough according to you the land might not have been called Palestine and the people been called Palestinians. But they at least EXISTED there. Israel DID NOT exist, it is an imaginary and invented land, the people are invented. This remains the fact, no matter what, no matter how much propaganda is done in the media to make people believe that the Israelis are heroes and the Palestinians as terrorists.
mark merrens wrote:
Thankkfully it doesn't though I suspect you'd prefer it did.
I would never because I do not support invasion or occupation. One reason could be that I come from a country that has never invaded or occupied another country ever in history.
mark merrens wrote:
The scriptures mention all sortsof nonsense as does the bible and the quran. None of it is real:
Again, a naive statement just because someone said it, not based on research and fact-finding. And Mark, if you are so fond of Israel, you should invite them to establish their country in your homeland, instead of taking rejoice in it being established in someone else's homeland.
-
mark merrens wrote:
all you do is ignore my points to press home your own without answering a single question.
You've still not realized that you've been doing the same from the beginning.
mark merrens wrote:
Outright lie: not sure where you get this but utterly untrue. Anyone living in Israel is afforded the exact same freedoms and rights as anyone else, regardless of religion. Typical palestinian propoganda: tell a lie often enough and it become the accpeted truth.
Instead of drawing your conclusions from media reports, you must either visit Palestine yourself or talk to someone who did.
mark merrens wrote:
Of course not but that is an entrely bogus question. However, as you can't deny that pre 1964 there was no such people as the Palestinians. Maybe you can get the Egyptians or the Jordanians to give you a bit more land to breathe in. Maybe the Sinia... Oh wait, no they already kicked you out of both.
At last, you agree that the European Jews never lived there. But the Indigenous Arabs, Christians and Jews have been living there from time unknown, eventhough according to you the land might not have been called Palestine and the people been called Palestinians. But they at least EXISTED there. Israel DID NOT exist, it is an imaginary and invented land, the people are invented. This remains the fact, no matter what, no matter how much propaganda is done in the media to make people believe that the Israelis are heroes and the Palestinians as terrorists.
mark merrens wrote:
Thankkfully it doesn't though I suspect you'd prefer it did.
I would never because I do not support invasion or occupation. One reason could be that I come from a country that has never invaded or occupied another country ever in history.
mark merrens wrote:
The scriptures mention all sortsof nonsense as does the bible and the quran. None of it is real:
Again, a naive statement just because someone said it, not based on research and fact-finding. And Mark, if you are so fond of Israel, you should invite them to establish their country in your homeland, instead of taking rejoice in it being established in someone else's homeland.
Interesting (and long!) discourse but I suspect we are as close to agreement as the Israelis and Palestinians! :-)
Shameel wrote:
Again, a naive statement just because someone said it, not based on research and fact-finding
Other than I would take great exception at this: all of the scriptures, bible, quran; indeed, any religious tome is fantastical nonsense. You mentioned Santa Clause earlier on: I see no difference between believing in that myth than believing in any other childish myth. The notion that there is a supreme being that requires people to worship it as well as lay down laws and stories in various scriptutes is too ridiculous to contemplate. It would first require that I believe in an omnipotent being which I certainly don't and that being gave a toss about our insignificant mudball of a planet. Just too silly for words.
Shameel wrote:
And Mark, if you are so fond of Israel, you should invite them to establish their country in your homeland, instead of taking rejoice in it being established in someone else's homeland.
No need, they established it in their own homeland. Good luck getting it back - I suspect if anyone tries again whilst Obama is President Israel will not be held back.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
mark merrens wrote:
all you do is ignore my points to press home your own without answering a single question.
You've still not realized that you've been doing the same from the beginning.
mark merrens wrote:
Outright lie: not sure where you get this but utterly untrue. Anyone living in Israel is afforded the exact same freedoms and rights as anyone else, regardless of religion. Typical palestinian propoganda: tell a lie often enough and it become the accpeted truth.
Instead of drawing your conclusions from media reports, you must either visit Palestine yourself or talk to someone who did.
mark merrens wrote:
Of course not but that is an entrely bogus question. However, as you can't deny that pre 1964 there was no such people as the Palestinians. Maybe you can get the Egyptians or the Jordanians to give you a bit more land to breathe in. Maybe the Sinia... Oh wait, no they already kicked you out of both.
At last, you agree that the European Jews never lived there. But the Indigenous Arabs, Christians and Jews have been living there from time unknown, eventhough according to you the land might not have been called Palestine and the people been called Palestinians. But they at least EXISTED there. Israel DID NOT exist, it is an imaginary and invented land, the people are invented. This remains the fact, no matter what, no matter how much propaganda is done in the media to make people believe that the Israelis are heroes and the Palestinians as terrorists.
mark merrens wrote:
Thankkfully it doesn't though I suspect you'd prefer it did.
I would never because I do not support invasion or occupation. One reason could be that I come from a country that has never invaded or occupied another country ever in history.
mark merrens wrote:
The scriptures mention all sortsof nonsense as does the bible and the quran. None of it is real:
Again, a naive statement just because someone said it, not based on research and fact-finding. And Mark, if you are so fond of Israel, you should invite them to establish their country in your homeland, instead of taking rejoice in it being established in someone else's homeland.
FYI, Mrs Wife has spent a lot of time in Palestine; from the First Intifada until 2005 when she was part of the International Mission observing the elections following Yasser Arafat's death; a man she knew personally. She also spent several years in Israel and knew senior politicians there. From what she has told me, the truth is far more complicated than you are trying to make out. Both sides are as underhand as each other and have continuously tried to undermine the other whilst claiming Sainthood. The Israelis probably do more covert work to undermine Palestine than the other way. However they are pretty clean with all their citizens whatever their race or religion. The one section who does get short-shift from the Knesset are the Ultra Orthodox Jews, who are even more ardent that there is no State of Israel then the Muslims are. Both extremes in this are as bad as each other. If you try to make either of them out as the injured party you are doing a huge disservice to humanity.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
-
Interesting (and long!) discourse but I suspect we are as close to agreement as the Israelis and Palestinians! :-)
Shameel wrote:
Again, a naive statement just because someone said it, not based on research and fact-finding
Other than I would take great exception at this: all of the scriptures, bible, quran; indeed, any religious tome is fantastical nonsense. You mentioned Santa Clause earlier on: I see no difference between believing in that myth than believing in any other childish myth. The notion that there is a supreme being that requires people to worship it as well as lay down laws and stories in various scriptutes is too ridiculous to contemplate. It would first require that I believe in an omnipotent being which I certainly don't and that being gave a toss about our insignificant mudball of a planet. Just too silly for words.
Shameel wrote:
And Mark, if you are so fond of Israel, you should invite them to establish their country in your homeland, instead of taking rejoice in it being established in someone else's homeland.
No need, they established it in their own homeland. Good luck getting it back - I suspect if anyone tries again whilst Obama is President Israel will not be held back.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
FYI, Mrs Wife has spent a lot of time in Palestine; from the First Intifada until 2005 when she was part of the International Mission observing the elections following Yasser Arafat's death; a man she knew personally. She also spent several years in Israel and knew senior politicians there. From what she has told me, the truth is far more complicated than you are trying to make out. Both sides are as underhand as each other and have continuously tried to undermine the other whilst claiming Sainthood. The Israelis probably do more covert work to undermine Palestine than the other way. However they are pretty clean with all their citizens whatever their race or religion. The one section who does get short-shift from the Knesset are the Ultra Orthodox Jews, who are even more ardent that there is no State of Israel then the Muslims are. Both extremes in this are as bad as each other. If you try to make either of them out as the injured party you are doing a huge disservice to humanity.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Thanks for sharing the nice thoughts Nagy. What I want to establish here is that comparing Palestinians and Zionists is not correct even though they adopt the same tactics to oppose each other. The Palestinians are indigenous natives of the land while the Zionists were brought in ships from various other countries. One is a legitimate resistance movement and the other is an illegal occupier. The fight is not centered around religion as many believe, the fight is about rights. Btw, I don't know who downvoted you and why. I have compensated it with a +5.
-
mark merrens wrote:
they established it in their own homeland.
Nope, their homeland is where they came from - Russia, Germany, Poland, America, etc., not Palestine.
Do you think you might not just be doing a touch of hair splitting here? We know we can't agree (cos I'm right and you're wrong :-)) so why not call it a day and go on our merry way? I'm pretty sure we can keep coming back at each other with a pithy response but to what end? We're no closer now than... well, ever, actually. Have a nice day.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
Thanks for sharing the nice thoughts Nagy. What I want to establish here is that comparing Palestinians and Zionists is not correct even though they adopt the same tactics to oppose each other. The Palestinians are indigenous natives of the land while the Zionists were brought in ships from various other countries. One is a legitimate resistance movement and the other is an illegal occupier. The fight is not centered around religion as many believe, the fight is about rights. Btw, I don't know who downvoted you and why. I have compensated it with a +5.
I certainly didn't downvote him. Again with the Palestinians. Who are these mysterious people of whom you speak? Did they spring up overnight in the early 60's? No. Were there already jews in the area? Yes. Legitimnate resistence movement. How risible. All they know how to do is keep themsleves in articial refugee camps and lob missiles at innocent people or attempt to terrorise in the hope that will, somehow, get Israel to give them what they want. Since what they (and, presumably you, want, is to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jews, how much chance do you think there is of you getting it? Rights my arse: be honest for a change.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
Do you think you might not just be doing a touch of hair splitting here? We know we can't agree (cos I'm right and you're wrong :-)) so why not call it a day and go on our merry way? I'm pretty sure we can keep coming back at each other with a pithy response but to what end? We're no closer now than... well, ever, actually. Have a nice day.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Sure Mark. I have no problem. I know you won't agree with me (because I'm right and you're wrong) :) Just explain to me once how you believe that it is their homeland when you know very well that people don't go to their homeland in ships, they're rather born there, isn't it?
-
I certainly didn't downvote him. Again with the Palestinians. Who are these mysterious people of whom you speak? Did they spring up overnight in the early 60's? No. Were there already jews in the area? Yes. Legitimnate resistence movement. How risible. All they know how to do is keep themsleves in articial refugee camps and lob missiles at innocent people or attempt to terrorise in the hope that will, somehow, get Israel to give them what they want. Since what they (and, presumably you, want, is to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jews, how much chance do you think there is of you getting it? Rights my arse: be honest for a change.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
Were there already jews in the area? Yes.
Yes, there were. And they are native Jews. I never questioned their right to live in Palestine. They have full rights to continue to live in their homeland. I have problem only with the Zionists who were imported from other countries. In the words of Helen Thomas "get the hell out of Palestine".
mark merrens wrote:
All they know how to do is keep themsleves in articial refugee camps
How many artificial refugee camps have you visited so far?
mark merrens wrote:
lob missiles at innocent people
So, what is Israel doing in Gaza? Do you atleast know that Israel killed more than 1500 civilians in 22 days during the Gaza carnage? Don't they look like human beings to you?
mark merrens wrote:
Since what they (and, presumably you, want, is to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jews
Did I ever talk to exterminating the Jews? In reality I am in full support of the native Jews. (I am myself named after a Jewish Prophet). It's just a typical cry of anti-semitism whenever Israel is criticised. Anti-Zionism is NOT anti-semitism. Please grow up.
mark merrens wrote:
Rights my arse
May be for you, not for the Palestinians.
-
Sure Mark. I have no problem. I know you won't agree with me (because I'm right and you're wrong) :) Just explain to me once how you believe that it is their homeland when you know very well that people don't go to their homeland in ships, they're rather born there, isn't it?
Shameel wrote:
Just explain to me once how you believe that it is their homeland when you know very well that people don't go to their homeland in ships, they're rather born there, isn't it?
Nope: your homeland is where you make it. I wasn't born where I lived for a long time but it became my homeland. The bottom line is it doesn't matter ho wmuch we go back and forth it's not up to us. I'd happily live in peace with Islam. Sadly, I suspect the reverse is not ture.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
mark merrens wrote:
Were there already jews in the area? Yes.
Yes, there were. And they are native Jews. I never questioned their right to live in Palestine. They have full rights to continue to live in their homeland. I have problem only with the Zionists who were imported from other countries. In the words of Helen Thomas "get the hell out of Palestine".
mark merrens wrote:
All they know how to do is keep themsleves in articial refugee camps
How many artificial refugee camps have you visited so far?
mark merrens wrote:
lob missiles at innocent people
So, what is Israel doing in Gaza? Do you atleast know that Israel killed more than 1500 civilians in 22 days during the Gaza carnage? Don't they look like human beings to you?
mark merrens wrote:
Since what they (and, presumably you, want, is to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jews
Did I ever talk to exterminating the Jews? In reality I am in full support of the native Jews. (I am myself named after a Jewish Prophet). It's just a typical cry of anti-semitism whenever Israel is criticised. Anti-Zionism is NOT anti-semitism. Please grow up.
mark merrens wrote:
Rights my arse
May be for you, not for the Palestinians.
It is quite duplicituous to pronounce that you are anti-zionist and not anti-semitic. Anyway, in reality nothing will change: the Palestinians are stuck in Gaza and the West Bank. Maybe Egypt and Jordan could relax their borders and let them migrate there - they can then procalim the Sinia as there homeland - after all, one bit of scrub looks pretty much like another. Better than where they are now I would have thought.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
mark merrens wrote:
It was never called Paletsine and all of the countries in that area are made up: none of them really existed as political entities over a hundred years ago.
But the land really existed, and the people that lived on it really existed, and the laws governing the ownership of land really existed. And legal basis of this was recognised by the British when they ran Palestine, which, under the 1922 (only 90 years ago, alas) Mandate, really existed. Israel recognised the Ottoman property rights of 19th century Zionists, as well as indigenous Jews. Thus they recognised the political entities that existed over 100 years ago.
mark merrens wrote:
enjoy unparalleled freedoms in Israel that you can't find in one single other Arab country.
Freudian slip? :-D
mark merrens wrote:
You want peace then make peace.
They don't want peace, they want their land back. Israel wants peace, so that it can keep the land it has appropriated.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
Excuse my tardy response.
ict558 wrote:
Thus they recognised the political entities that existed over 100 years ago.
of which Palestine was not one.
ict558 wrote:
Freudian slip?
:-O Looks that way!
ict558 wrote:
They don't want peace, they want their land back. Israel wants peace, so that it can keep the land it has appropriated.
Not their land so nothing to give back. Besides, you must realise that will never happen. Given that is the case make peace and move on.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
Excuse my tardy response.
ict558 wrote:
Thus they recognised the political entities that existed over 100 years ago.
of which Palestine was not one.
ict558 wrote:
Freudian slip?
:-O Looks that way!
ict558 wrote:
They don't want peace, they want their land back. Israel wants peace, so that it can keep the land it has appropriated.
Not their land so nothing to give back. Besides, you must realise that will never happen. Given that is the case make peace and move on.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
:zzz:
mark merrens wrote:
Excuse my tardy response.
Eh!? Whaa!? :confused: Oh! It's you. Scaring an old man like that.
mark merrens wrote:
of which Palestine was not one.
Arabs, indigenous Jews, Zionist immigrants, and others, held title to land under the Ottoman Empire. Where this land formed part of Palestine, run by the British under the 1922 Mandate, these titles were recognised. The political entities that existed over 100 years ago, whether called Palaestina, Filistine, Syria, or Orpington South, were thus recognised by all parties. Arabs, indigenous Jews, Zionist immigrants, and others, purchased title to land in Palestine, under the British. The political entity of Palestine was thus recognised by all parties. (Jews and Arabs alike held passports describing them as citizens of Palestine. Palestine postage stamps were in use. So the rest of the world also recognised Palestine as a political entity.) So, did Israel refuse to recognise the legitimacy of title to land of the indigenous Jews and Zionists? Of course not. Therefore, to that extent, Israel recognised Palestine, and the Ottoman Provinces, as a political entity.
mark merrens wrote:
Not their land so nothing to give back.
Legally, it was. But to the victor, the spoils. Israel may do as it likes.
mark merrens wrote:
Besides, you must realise that will never happen.
Willingly, no. But, never? Who knows? This show has been running since OT times.
mark merrens wrote:
Given that is the case make peace and move on.
50 years ago, before Prime Minister Wilson started the last round of 'troubles', an Irish guy explained that he hated me. Nothing personal, he assured me. I was, apparently, a good colleague to work with. It was merely because I was British.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon