Greek Mythology
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No, but they didn't sacrifice their lives for the politicians to throw money left and right to random countries while collecting massive bribes and digging a bigger and bigger hole. They didn't sacrifice their lives for said politicians to cover all their splurging from their own people and from the EU and erase any trace of money trouble from the bookkeeping. They didn't sacrifice their lives for the people to gladly turn a blind eye to all the corruption of their leaders due to being well paid from money nobody actually had and needed to be borrowed. They didn't sacrifice their lives for all the institutions that should have kept an eye on the tax evasion, illegal stuff, to listen to the leaders saying: ah, let them be, we're stealing enough ourselves. What's happening now eventually had to happen. Sure, if it wasn't the euro the government would have put in some inflation, well, a bit more, economy would have still gone down, people would have felt it but not by lowered pay, just higher prices and in a more controlled way. No riots, no anti-EU sentiments. And I assume everyone in the country knew that there was mass tax evasion, that the leaders were lying, and accepted for the big salaries. And kept electing them. Well, they're chosen by the Greek, not by someone else.
True on all counts.
Alberto Bar-Noy --------------- “The city’s central computer told you? R2D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!” (C3PO)
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(This is not a political comment, merely a view that the Greek People are in deep trouble) The bailout has been agreed. (Well no, not really, it needs ratification in all the EZ National Parliaments and there are still one or two who are wobbling). This will help the Greeks get back to normal. (If by Normal you mean 18% reduction in GDP, 30% unemployment, breakdown in law and order, failing health service, rise of extremists politics and permanent imposition of oversite by the EU (Thus making Greece the first EU Colony)). The Greek Debt position has been improved remarkably. (Except that instead of having €286 Billion in Debts it now has €190 Billion in debts, so still deep in the crapper). This will see an end to the Greek Crisis (No, it merely means the French and German banks will get back some of their investments, the Greek People will not see a penny of this money). Normality will be restored to the Banking System. (Ha Ha Ha - So much of Greek debt will now be held in official repositories, all of who will have preferential treatment as creditors, that there will not be a private sector investor willing to touch it with a barge pole, knowing they would be last in the queue of creditors.) Greece has to enshrine this loan guarantee into its Constitution so that any future party coming to power could not just say "Elephant off you Sunshines" to the EU! This will cause so much ill feeling that the Greek Army would be called onto the street. (Even the Greek police have issued a Arrest Warrant for any EU, IMF or ECB official who deigns to walk the streets). The poor Greeks were lied to, cajouled and bribed into the Euro, and now they are paying the price. Why are the Politicos who did this not swinging from the lamp posts of Athens? Because almost to a man they fled the country, taking €Millions with them. A Sad Day, and I hope that any Greek CPians keep well and safe over the next 3 months (Elections due with the hard left parties looking good for the win).
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
What I find most disturbing as an American is that our government won't take any real steps to prevent the same thing from happening here. I've seen other European countries taking preemptive steps to head off a similar crisis in their country even though it's not popular with a lot of people but in this country we keep acting like we haven't been warned. The Democrats won't agree to anything other than superficial spending cuts and the Republicans won't agree to any tax increases at all. The USA's debt to GDP is almost as bad as Greece, I guess the creditor just trust us more to pay our bills. But I don't think it will be many years before the same thing happens here.
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What I find most disturbing as an American is that our government won't take any real steps to prevent the same thing from happening here. I've seen other European countries taking preemptive steps to head off a similar crisis in their country even though it's not popular with a lot of people but in this country we keep acting like we haven't been warned. The Democrats won't agree to anything other than superficial spending cuts and the Republicans won't agree to any tax increases at all. The USA's debt to GDP is almost as bad as Greece, I guess the creditor just trust us more to pay our bills. But I don't think it will be many years before the same thing happens here.
You are correct. But the answer isn't more taxes. You could tax everyone at 100% and there wouldn't be enough money to pay the bills. We need to cut spending. We have 10 years at most.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Greece is collapsing, the Iranians are getting aggressive, and Rome is in disarray. Welcome to 430 BC.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
Those who study history are doomed to watch others repeat it. You have only yourself to blame for understanding this facet of the problem. :)
_____________________________ Give a man a mug, he drinks for a day. Teach a man to mug... The difference between an ostrich and the average voter is where they stick their heads.
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Spending more than you make is always a financial disaster. There is no one to blame but the populace at large for this. Nearly every country in the world is guilty and the second people start realizing that the entire system is an illusion there will be a financial correction (not a melt-down, because that implies there was something solid there before). The only real solution for the Greek problem is the same solution every country will face, either invade and enjoy the spoils of conquest or only spend what you can force your citizens to pay in taxes, oh, and only print money that is worth something. Not that it means anything coming from a U.S. citizen, over here if you are big company you get a billion dollar bailout with no personal guarantees but if you want to start a small business you have to put down 80% and have your house as collateral for the loan.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
either invade and enjoy the spoils of conquest
This might not be much of an option in countries that aren't filled with untapped resources. Invade a country that runs on a service economy and what do you get? I think I want to think about this for a while.
_____________________________ Give a man a mug, he drinks for a day. Teach a man to mug... The difference between an ostrich and the average voter is where they stick their heads.
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To be fair, isn't another reason Greece is in trouble that a lot of the ultra wealthy don't pay their proper amount of taxes? Doctors who only take cash as payment, drive around in expensive sports cars, and then claim they only make fifteen or twenty thousand a year. All it takes is paying the right person the proper amount of money.
So the politicians can spend as much as they want, and there should be no limit to how much people pay in taxes?
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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So the politicians can spend as much as they want, and there should be no limit to how much people pay in taxes?
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
I never said that or even implied it. What I said was Greece has a problem with people owing a sum in taxes, not wanting to pay that much. They go out of their way to hide their earnings by only accepting cash and then falsify their income tax forms, pay off the tax man who lines his pocket and says "Yep, they only earned however much they said it was." I believe here in the states we call that tax fraud and it is frowned upon.
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You are correct. But the answer isn't more taxes. You could tax everyone at 100% and there wouldn't be enough money to pay the bills. We need to cut spending. We have 10 years at most.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
(This is not a political comment, merely a view that the Greek People are in deep trouble) The bailout has been agreed. (Well no, not really, it needs ratification in all the EZ National Parliaments and there are still one or two who are wobbling). This will help the Greeks get back to normal. (If by Normal you mean 18% reduction in GDP, 30% unemployment, breakdown in law and order, failing health service, rise of extremists politics and permanent imposition of oversite by the EU (Thus making Greece the first EU Colony)). The Greek Debt position has been improved remarkably. (Except that instead of having €286 Billion in Debts it now has €190 Billion in debts, so still deep in the crapper). This will see an end to the Greek Crisis (No, it merely means the French and German banks will get back some of their investments, the Greek People will not see a penny of this money). Normality will be restored to the Banking System. (Ha Ha Ha - So much of Greek debt will now be held in official repositories, all of who will have preferential treatment as creditors, that there will not be a private sector investor willing to touch it with a barge pole, knowing they would be last in the queue of creditors.) Greece has to enshrine this loan guarantee into its Constitution so that any future party coming to power could not just say "Elephant off you Sunshines" to the EU! This will cause so much ill feeling that the Greek Army would be called onto the street. (Even the Greek police have issued a Arrest Warrant for any EU, IMF or ECB official who deigns to walk the streets). The poor Greeks were lied to, cajouled and bribed into the Euro, and now they are paying the price. Why are the Politicos who did this not swinging from the lamp posts of Athens? Because almost to a man they fled the country, taking €Millions with them. A Sad Day, and I hope that any Greek CPians keep well and safe over the next 3 months (Elections due with the hard left parties looking good for the win).
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
the whole financial system is a ponzi scheme that funnels wealth to the top.... 1) Fractional reserve banking ensures that every bank is functionally insolvent. 2) FIAT currency ensures that the "price" can be fudged by external forces / speculation and has no relativity to the productivity of the country at all. 3) Central banking is the overlord of Usury... every dollar in the economy is debt ridden and needs interest payments, if the central banks of central banks (BIS) turn off the money supply there is NO way that economy can repay the interest as if X dollars are in the economy you need X + y% to meet your interest payments. welcome to slavery by stealth...
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Spending more than you make is always a financial disaster. There is no one to blame but the populace at large for this. Nearly every country in the world is guilty and the second people start realizing that the entire system is an illusion there will be a financial correction (not a melt-down, because that implies there was something solid there before). The only real solution for the Greek problem is the same solution every country will face, either invade and enjoy the spoils of conquest or only spend what you can force your citizens to pay in taxes, oh, and only print money that is worth something. Not that it means anything coming from a U.S. citizen, over here if you are big company you get a billion dollar bailout with no personal guarantees but if you want to start a small business you have to put down 80% and have your house as collateral for the loan.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
Well said. :thumbsup:
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your a$$ will be laminated. There are 10 kinds of people in the world: People who know binary and people who don't.
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(This is not a political comment, merely a view that the Greek People are in deep trouble) The bailout has been agreed. (Well no, not really, it needs ratification in all the EZ National Parliaments and there are still one or two who are wobbling). This will help the Greeks get back to normal. (If by Normal you mean 18% reduction in GDP, 30% unemployment, breakdown in law and order, failing health service, rise of extremists politics and permanent imposition of oversite by the EU (Thus making Greece the first EU Colony)). The Greek Debt position has been improved remarkably. (Except that instead of having €286 Billion in Debts it now has €190 Billion in debts, so still deep in the crapper). This will see an end to the Greek Crisis (No, it merely means the French and German banks will get back some of their investments, the Greek People will not see a penny of this money). Normality will be restored to the Banking System. (Ha Ha Ha - So much of Greek debt will now be held in official repositories, all of who will have preferential treatment as creditors, that there will not be a private sector investor willing to touch it with a barge pole, knowing they would be last in the queue of creditors.) Greece has to enshrine this loan guarantee into its Constitution so that any future party coming to power could not just say "Elephant off you Sunshines" to the EU! This will cause so much ill feeling that the Greek Army would be called onto the street. (Even the Greek police have issued a Arrest Warrant for any EU, IMF or ECB official who deigns to walk the streets). The poor Greeks were lied to, cajouled and bribed into the Euro, and now they are paying the price. Why are the Politicos who did this not swinging from the lamp posts of Athens? Because almost to a man they fled the country, taking €Millions with them. A Sad Day, and I hope that any Greek CPians keep well and safe over the next 3 months (Elections due with the hard left parties looking good for the win).
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
Look at the money[^]. I hear a story in French, followed by a loud echo in German. best, Bill
"Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true." Niels Bohr
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(This is not a political comment, merely a view that the Greek People are in deep trouble) The bailout has been agreed. (Well no, not really, it needs ratification in all the EZ National Parliaments and there are still one or two who are wobbling). This will help the Greeks get back to normal. (If by Normal you mean 18% reduction in GDP, 30% unemployment, breakdown in law and order, failing health service, rise of extremists politics and permanent imposition of oversite by the EU (Thus making Greece the first EU Colony)). The Greek Debt position has been improved remarkably. (Except that instead of having €286 Billion in Debts it now has €190 Billion in debts, so still deep in the crapper). This will see an end to the Greek Crisis (No, it merely means the French and German banks will get back some of their investments, the Greek People will not see a penny of this money). Normality will be restored to the Banking System. (Ha Ha Ha - So much of Greek debt will now be held in official repositories, all of who will have preferential treatment as creditors, that there will not be a private sector investor willing to touch it with a barge pole, knowing they would be last in the queue of creditors.) Greece has to enshrine this loan guarantee into its Constitution so that any future party coming to power could not just say "Elephant off you Sunshines" to the EU! This will cause so much ill feeling that the Greek Army would be called onto the street. (Even the Greek police have issued a Arrest Warrant for any EU, IMF or ECB official who deigns to walk the streets). The poor Greeks were lied to, cajouled and bribed into the Euro, and now they are paying the price. Why are the Politicos who did this not swinging from the lamp posts of Athens? Because almost to a man they fled the country, taking €Millions with them. A Sad Day, and I hope that any Greek CPians keep well and safe over the next 3 months (Elections due with the hard left parties looking good for the win).
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
Dalek Dave wrote:
"Elephant off you Sunshines"
My work here is done.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
We have 10 years at most.
Nope. 2015/2016 (Just a hunch. :) )
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
LOL. You could be right. I was just being optimistic. Either way, I hope it doesn't happen.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Look at the money[^]. I hear a story in French, followed by a loud echo in German. best, Bill
"Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true." Niels Bohr
