Interviews Today
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Roger Wright wrote:
high school graduate
There's the problem. Education isn't what is once was.
Roger Wright wrote:
Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation?
But none of got left behind.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
I could say that the reason to keep kids in school is that it keeps them out of the workforce and off the streets. Interestingly enough, the one-room schools do better than the traditional school.
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loctrice wrote:
I would not get reviewed at all. Most jobs I can't even apply for because I don't meet the education requirements.
list your experience first, education last. after enough experience, education is, for the most part, ignored. those places where it's "important" you probably don't want to work anyway. it's just someone building a "club".
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
Same thing has happened with me many times during the technical interviews I conduct to recruit programmers for my team. My all time favorite is, when asked "How does the .NET garbage collector decide when to collect an object in the heap?", the majority of people answer along these lines "When the object stays in memory for long enough, the GC collects it". (And don't think that only newbies give this kind of an answer, I have seen some self-proclaimed ".NET experts" with over a decade of experience giving such answers).
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I have been told that it is the "B" students who are usually the best. "A" I guess get by because they can usually remember everything. "B" student have to use their brains.
I was an A student in all but one of my programming classes. I failed nearly every written test I took. I passed one that I remember, in the advanced c++ programming class, but it was strait forward and tested skill rather than reading comprehension to see if you could catch those tricks in the questions.
If it moves, compile it
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Roger Wright wrote:
high school graduate
There's the problem. Education isn't what is once was.
Roger Wright wrote:
Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation?
But none of got left behind.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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I have been told that it is the "B" students who are usually the best. "A" I guess get by because they can usually remember everything. "B" student have to use their brains.
Most people highly competent at corporate jobs were "B" students in school, but the inverse isn't true; being a "B" student in school does not make it likely that you'll be competent at corporate jobs. School and corporate environments require different skillsets, and it's rare to see people who are great at both.
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
And that was the top 10% or so? :omg: What were the resumes you didn't shortlist like? Written in crayon?
Ideological Purity is no substitute for being able to stick your thumb down a pipe to stop the water
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
I got a better one - our place was hiring a technician to work on computer stuff. So, they interviewed people that had (supposedly) A+ and Network+ certifications. I wasn't involved in the interviews or hiring or anything else with this guy. So, they hired a guy, and he starts working at our place. A few weeks go by and a computer comes in that needs fixed. So, our lead tech gives it to this new guy to fix. About an hour goes by, and the guy tells the lead tech that he cannot get the machine to boot, doesn't know what is wrong with it, etc... So, the lead tech goes over and looks at the inside of the machine and asks the new guy if he sees what is wrong. "Nope", he replied, "Nothing wrong in there." Well, of course the machine wouldn't boot - it was missing a hard drive. And - the machine was telling him that on the screen. The certified tech didn't even know what a hard drive looked like! Needless to say - he was fired quickly.....
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I have been told that it is the "B" students who are usually the best. "A" I guess get by because they can usually remember everything. "B" student have to use their brains.
My GPA was around 3.92, but I like to say I have a prodigious memory. It is one of the worst in the world. I also like to say that I am as intelligent as I am only because my memory is so bad that I have to refigure things out rather than recall them. :rolleyes:
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
When I left the Navy I wanted to be a wildlife biologist working with big predators. Lions or tigers or my personal favorite, wolves. Well I got into graduate school and did ok, but all the research people at that level (think Western Kentucky University) were doing was with mice. Dirty stinkin' BORING mice. I have a M.S. in biology but have never held a biology job because I refused to work with mice. In computer terms, the BORING stuff is Excel. The exciting stuff is web design, HTML, and graphics. Bet you'd have 100 qualified applicants if you tested by asking them to Photoshop your drunk uncle Patrick out of a wedding photo. "I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry. And that's extra scary to me, because there's a large, out of focus monster roaming the countryside. Run." -Mitch Hedberg
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I got a better one - our place was hiring a technician to work on computer stuff. So, they interviewed people that had (supposedly) A+ and Network+ certifications. I wasn't involved in the interviews or hiring or anything else with this guy. So, they hired a guy, and he starts working at our place. A few weeks go by and a computer comes in that needs fixed. So, our lead tech gives it to this new guy to fix. About an hour goes by, and the guy tells the lead tech that he cannot get the machine to boot, doesn't know what is wrong with it, etc... So, the lead tech goes over and looks at the inside of the machine and asks the new guy if he sees what is wrong. "Nope", he replied, "Nothing wrong in there." Well, of course the machine wouldn't boot - it was missing a hard drive. And - the machine was telling him that on the screen. The certified tech didn't even know what a hard drive looked like! Needless to say - he was fired quickly.....
I swear if I had to hire a tech guy, I would loosen a ram just enough to make it not work but look in place at a glance, just to see if the guy(or gal for that matter) had any basic troubleshooting skills. I happen to remember how easy it was to get A+ certified.. doesn't mean they know anything.
It used to be what you know that got you ahead, then it was who you know, now its what you know about who you know that gets you ahead. Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
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My GPA was around 3.92, but I like to say I have a prodigious memory. It is one of the worst in the world. I also like to say that I am as intelligent as I am only because my memory is so bad that I have to refigure things out rather than recall them. :rolleyes:
It is normally the B students that have to work harder. A students usually get by with thier good memory. Depending on memory means that they never learn to think for themselves. They also are not the ones that will come up with new ideas.
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loctrice wrote:
I would not get reviewed at all. Most jobs I can't even apply for because I don't meet the education requirements.
list your experience first, education last. after enough experience, education is, for the most part, ignored. those places where it's "important" you probably don't want to work anyway. it's just someone building a "club".
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunAgreed.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Most people highly competent at corporate jobs were "B" students in school, but the inverse isn't true; being a "B" student in school does not make it likely that you'll be competent at corporate jobs. School and corporate environments require different skillsets, and it's rare to see people who are great at both.
That is true. There are B students that have to work to be B students, overcoming weak memory, and then the B students that just don't have the memory to be A students, but are good enough to be B students. Unfortunatley, the schools in the US emphasis memory skills. Tests tend to test memory, not skill.
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger Wright wrote:
Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation?
IMHO, many parents today feel it's the school's job to teach their kids. I've always felt that education (and a sense of values) begins at home. But what do I know? I'm no parent - I'm just someone who's been lucky enough to have had awesome role models when I was growing up. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
When they enacted the no child left behind philosophy they hampered the rest of the class.
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Roger Wright wrote:
Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation?
IMHO, many parents today feel it's the school's job to teach their kids. I've always felt that education (and a sense of values) begins at home. But what do I know? I'm no parent - I'm just someone who's been lucky enough to have had awesome role models when I was growing up. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
That's exactly the way I was raised. My parents instilled a set of basic values that included academic achievement, reinforced by beatings. :-D If I got a 'C' I got grounded. When the teacher said I'm not doing my homework, I got parental 'help' and 'encouragement' until I caught up. Even when I surpassed my parents' education, they still asked "What did you learn today?" By the time Dad went back to school for a Masters, I was tutoring him in math while learning what he was learning. It has to start at home, and be continually reinforced; the schools can't do it alone.
Will Rogers never met me.
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That's exactly the way I was raised. My parents instilled a set of basic values that included academic achievement, reinforced by beatings. :-D If I got a 'C' I got grounded. When the teacher said I'm not doing my homework, I got parental 'help' and 'encouragement' until I caught up. Even when I surpassed my parents' education, they still asked "What did you learn today?" By the time Dad went back to school for a Masters, I was tutoring him in math while learning what he was learning. It has to start at home, and be continually reinforced; the schools can't do it alone.
Will Rogers never met me.
+5 :thumbsup: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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My GPA was around 3.92, but I like to say I have a prodigious memory. It is one of the worst in the world. I also like to say that I am as intelligent as I am only because my memory is so bad that I have to refigure things out rather than recall them. :rolleyes:
Mine was 2.6, but then I was taking a full engineering load and working two or three jobs. I subscribe to the theory "never memorize anything you can look up." I've heard it ascribed to Einstein, but I can't find any reference to prove it. I think Lazarus Long had it right, in saying that the mind fails because, although life experience is linear, correlations among data grow geometrically. I'm not forgetful; I'm just delaying the day when I can no longer function because my brain is full. :)
Will Rogers never met me.
