He called me back....
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Would you still not be getting paid?
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Loctrice, I hope this situation works out well for you, but in my opinion the absence of your being paid any money is a "red flag on the field." I would never work on a project under vague terms of future compensation. And any planned future (deferred) compensation I would want to see exactly described in a legal, notarized document, and I would have done the due diligence to find out, or demanded to know, what the source of funds are for this project. I am sure the person trying to get you back on the job is not going hungry. best, Bill
"Every two days we create as much information as we did from the dawn of civilization up until 2003". Eric Schmidt of Google.
I make a salary that is good enough for me where I work. Money was not the motivation. I program because I enjoy it, and I wanted the chance to work with some different techs with my former instructor. If we finished the project and there was no money, as long as I was given credit then I would be fine with it.
If it moves, compile it
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Maybe someone here would like to do it that you could put forward so you can opt out more gracefully? Perhaps if you let any interested parties contact you directly? Just a thought.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
If other people were involved I'd be more excited I think. I probably wouldn't want to bail out. I told him as much. I just don't have the time to complete it on my own. I came on board for the team project, and it ended up being just me.
If it moves, compile it
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Yeah, there has never been any money involved. I'm not extremely worried about the money.
If it moves, compile it
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As long as he's aware that you could probably kill him with your pinky finger, I think you can keep him pretty much in line.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Can I borrow $50 then? Seriously though, if you're not worried about cash, you probably should at least be sure of your "bonus" when it goes live.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
He's offered a bonus per customer, but nothing is in writing. If it works out where I could get money, then that would be great. I'm just saying that money isn't a seriously motivating factor for me on projects outside my full time job. I just don't work on stuff I'm not interested in when it comes to my spare time :D
If it moves, compile it
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I make a salary that is good enough for me where I work. Money was not the motivation. I program because I enjoy it, and I wanted the chance to work with some different techs with my former instructor. If we finished the project and there was no money, as long as I was given credit then I would be fine with it.
If it moves, compile it
loctrice wrote:
If we finished the project and there was no money, as long as I was given credit then I would be fine with it.
So it wouldn't bohter you if all the work you did made them loads of cash but gave you nothing? Wow, just wow!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
As long as he's aware that you could probably kill him with your pinky finger
I think I missed it. What do you mean?
If it moves, compile it
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
As long as he's aware that you could probably kill him with your pinky finger
I think I missed it. What do you mean?
If it moves, compile it
loctrice wrote:
I think I missed it. What do you mean?
loctrice wrote:
I train 6 times a week at my gym and have karate friday night and saturday morning
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I had worked some on a startup company project. It was supposed to be a former instructor of mine, myself, and perhaps a designer. When I came on the project it was only because I wanted a chance to work on another project with my former instructor. Problem is everyone we've had on the project keeps bailing out. Including the guy I wanted to work with. There is no startup money, just the promise of a bonus when it goes "live". I wasn't too concerned with the money, but the imaginary deadline keeps getting tight, and it keeps ending up being just me working on the project. So , eventually I just left. I got a call last night from the guy again. It seems that no one will work on the project, and he wants me to come back. He said this time there is no deadline, we just need to resume work so eventually it can get done. And it'll get done when it gets done. In the same phone call, later he states (after I'd agreed to work on it again) that he would like to have it done by August. I've already designed the database, and wrote part of the access layer. I told him I train 6 times a week at my gym and have karate friday night and saturday morning so I don't have a lot of time. A couple of evenings and part of the weekend. I don't want to just bail out, but I feel like I may have made the wrong choice.
If it moves, compile it
As far as I am concerned, it sounds like the same elephant all over again. Deadline...tighter deadline...tighter deadline...leave...No deadline...get done when it's done...agree to come back...deadline August. If you are getting paid, that is one thing. But that just sounds like you are being taken for a ride.
Ideological Purity is no substitute for being able to stick your thumb down a pipe to stop the water
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I had worked some on a startup company project. It was supposed to be a former instructor of mine, myself, and perhaps a designer. When I came on the project it was only because I wanted a chance to work on another project with my former instructor. Problem is everyone we've had on the project keeps bailing out. Including the guy I wanted to work with. There is no startup money, just the promise of a bonus when it goes "live". I wasn't too concerned with the money, but the imaginary deadline keeps getting tight, and it keeps ending up being just me working on the project. So , eventually I just left. I got a call last night from the guy again. It seems that no one will work on the project, and he wants me to come back. He said this time there is no deadline, we just need to resume work so eventually it can get done. And it'll get done when it gets done. In the same phone call, later he states (after I'd agreed to work on it again) that he would like to have it done by August. I've already designed the database, and wrote part of the access layer. I told him I train 6 times a week at my gym and have karate friday night and saturday morning so I don't have a lot of time. A couple of evenings and part of the weekend. I don't want to just bail out, but I feel like I may have made the wrong choice.
If it moves, compile it
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loctrice wrote:
If we finished the project and there was no money, as long as I was given credit then I would be fine with it.
So it wouldn't bohter you if all the work you did made them loads of cash but gave you nothing? Wow, just wow!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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loctrice wrote:
I think I missed it. What do you mean?
loctrice wrote:
I train 6 times a week at my gym and have karate friday night and saturday morning
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loctrice wrote:
If it moves, compile it
If it compiles, ship it.:suss:
..................... Life is too shor
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As far as I am concerned, it sounds like the same elephant all over again. Deadline...tighter deadline...tighter deadline...leave...No deadline...get done when it's done...agree to come back...deadline August. If you are getting paid, that is one thing. But that just sounds like you are being taken for a ride.
Ideological Purity is no substitute for being able to stick your thumb down a pipe to stop the water
Yeah, this was what I was feeling the slight regret about. I think it will end up being just me with an unreasonable deadline on a project I'm just supposed to be working on in my spare time. To the direct point, I have no interest in working on this project if it's just me. It is a large project, and I only have my spare time to work on it. I don't mind big projects in my spare time, but certainly not alone. I have tried to be pretty clear that I won't make any deadline he could set out. I have also made it clear that I want someone else working on it. I even told him if it were someone with minimal experience that would still be fine.
If it moves, compile it
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No, it wouldn't really bother me as long as I could claim (with support from them) that I worked on the code for the project.
If it moves, compile it
Very commendable but don't you have to eat? Pay for kids, etc? I mean, even if you have no family now, at some point you might and they ain't cheap, believe me; you'll need all the money you can get! Anyway, good luck, whatever you do.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Very commendable but don't you have to eat? Pay for kids, etc? I mean, even if you have no family now, at some point you might and they ain't cheap, believe me; you'll need all the money you can get! Anyway, good luck, whatever you do.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Yes I have a family, and yes I have things to pay for. I'm not saying I work for free, or even prefer not making money. I'm saying that I have a full time job, and so does the wife. I don't consider money as the highest priority when I consider , or take, side projects. I started on this project to work with a friend (former instructor), which was the main goal. I thought it would be fun, money is a side effect of that. However, if they can't pay me I would still like to be able to use that project as a reference. But, the main point is that even if I don't get paid any money for this I still have my job. If the project fails, I'm not out of anything. If it works and they can pay me, fine. If it works, but not well enough for them to pay me then I expect to be able to use that as a reference to something I coded. Of coarse I would like to get money, but it's not a show stopper on a side project.
If it moves, compile it
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If you are in the US, file a copyright on the work you've done so far. If you wrote it, you own it. Since you're doing this on you own time without compensation, it's your code. Cost to file is $35. That will protect you if this guy fails to compensate you down the road (whether it is in money or bragging rights).
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I had worked some on a startup company project. It was supposed to be a former instructor of mine, myself, and perhaps a designer. When I came on the project it was only because I wanted a chance to work on another project with my former instructor. Problem is everyone we've had on the project keeps bailing out. Including the guy I wanted to work with. There is no startup money, just the promise of a bonus when it goes "live". I wasn't too concerned with the money, but the imaginary deadline keeps getting tight, and it keeps ending up being just me working on the project. So , eventually I just left. I got a call last night from the guy again. It seems that no one will work on the project, and he wants me to come back. He said this time there is no deadline, we just need to resume work so eventually it can get done. And it'll get done when it gets done. In the same phone call, later he states (after I'd agreed to work on it again) that he would like to have it done by August. I've already designed the database, and wrote part of the access layer. I told him I train 6 times a week at my gym and have karate friday night and saturday morning so I don't have a lot of time. A couple of evenings and part of the weekend. I don't want to just bail out, but I feel like I may have made the wrong choice.
If it moves, compile it
I once started working in a startup without an agreed upon in advance percentage of ownership, and ended up feeling ripped off when the organizer of the effort made the lion's share of the profits. It's a miserable feeling, especially when (as is often the case) is between friends. I did think I should have gotten a larger part of the ownership, but if it had all been agreed upon in advance with exactly those terms, I would have felt fine. After all, it would have been a deal I agreed upon. When you expect (and are reassured) that you'll be treated fairly, then later, when the paperwork is done, discover that you're nothing at all like an equal partner, that you can feel cheated and somewhat betrayed. When that kind of thing happens, it reveals the implicit belief on the part of the winners in the deal that they are far more important and "better" than you. Ugh.
Tom Clement Serena Software, Inc. www.serena.com articles[^]
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I make a salary that is good enough for me where I work. Money was not the motivation. I program because I enjoy it, and I wanted the chance to work with some different techs with my former instructor. If we finished the project and there was no money, as long as I was given credit then I would be fine with it.
If it moves, compile it
Hi Loctrice, I certainly respect your choices, and kind of admire your loyalty to your "instructor." I hope for the best for you both on this project in terms of money, "rep," or both being paid in full. I have, in the past done some loss-leader projects, like writing over half of a book that was published by Addison-Wesley, for which immediate compensation was "peanuts," but long-range benefits were "gold." But ... please forgive me if I sound like your nattering Aunt Sally here ... is there a danger under this scenario: the project on which you are working without immediate $ compensation does get out there: it does have your name in the about-box or whatever ... then your boss at your regular job finds out: how's he going to feel that you have been "moonlighting" ? Could that affect your future with your current employer ? I really agree with the comment below that suggests you copyright the code as long as you done it on your own time, as long as you haven't signed a contract of some kind where your sole ownership of the code could be contested, and as long as you have done it on your own equipment in your own place of residence or work. That way, if things go "wrong" when the project if finished, you have a bargaining card at the table to negotiate for either money or name-in-about-box, or whatever. I'd also be very careful to maintain a strict paper trail of all the work you've done, and make absolutely sure you did none of it using your current employer's facilities or equipment. Your current employer would have a strong legal claim, if you had used any of their facilities that the work you did belonged to them. I'm no lawyer, and I would suggest you protect yourself in this situation by finding an intellectual property lawyer and getting "pro" advice. best, Bill
"Every two days we create as much information as we did from the dawn of civilization up until 2003". Eric Schmidt of Google.
