Iran War
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mark merrens wrote:
Russia, on the other hand, is gagging to flex its muscles.
Yeah, I have the impresion Putin want to see Russia return to the glory days of world power. Tell me, what is he spending on the military? Is he building it up? If so, and the US/Israel attack Iran, an old Russian ally, he might come back with something. I doubt it would be much, but some sabre ratlign and a token strike perhaps.
============================== Nothing to say.
IMO Russia is not Iran’s allay any more. The mullahs in Iran included Russia amongst the “devils spawn” countries after Russia ratification of the latest UN sanctions against Iran. I could be proved wrong, but I think Russia will reacts with something more than a white noise, only if Israel bombs the Iran’s nuclear power plant until there are Russian engineers and workers in it, or use tactical nuclear weapons.
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Good point. And not only they don’t have support from the Arabs, but some countries like Saudi Arabia are considering them their greatest enemy because Iran is a loose cannon with a fanatics religious freaks governing the country. One war can change all this in a way not favorable for the west.
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Saudi Arabia are considering them their greatest enemy because Iran is a loose cannon with a fanatics religious freaks governing the country.
So the opinion of the US is also that of the fanatics and religious freaks that rule Saudi Arabia. How unlikely is that? :rolleyes:
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Saudi Arabia are considering them their greatest enemy because Iran is a loose cannon with a fanatics religious freaks governing the country.
So the opinion of the US is also that of the fanatics and religious freaks that rule Saudi Arabia. How unlikely is that? :rolleyes:
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
Yes, but they are OURS “fanatics and religious freaks”. :-D In a more serious note, the current king of Saudi Arabia, judging by his actions is not a fanatic. Also he has survived through at least one assassination attempt from the Iran’s special services, so you can imagine there is a special place for Iran in his heart.
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Is your feeling based on some facts? Because in the last few decades the Russia is not the one flexing muscles. And do you think they are going to back up Iran against their former citizens? If you missed it there is movement in Israel to make the Russian second official language because it’s a first language for 2.5 million Israeli or third of the country population, half of the Jewish population. Just for example Russia lost a deal for billions of dollars refusing to sell C-300 complex to Iran, because Israel asked them to do so. Also a lot of their SU-30 for export contain some Israel electronic components. Not much but enough to give them a hard time with their Arabian clients – including returned aircrafts. This cold-war thinking was ridiculous at first, but now, more than 20 years after the cold war is ignorant at best.
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It's based on what I see reported on a variety of news channels. Russia is reportedly rebuilding its military and Putin appears to be an old style communist thinly disguised as a man of action who's said on the past that he wants Russia to have a wider rol eon the world stage. No one spoke about the cold war - I've no idea wher you got that form. Given what I have seen and read I epxressed an opinion - no need to be rude (which is what I gave you a 1 for)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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mark merrens wrote:
It really boils down to whether or not the allies believe or know that Iran is attempting to create a nuclear weapons capability.
Would that were true. It really depends only on whether the 'allies' (actually the US and a coalition of the coerced) can convince their populations that Iran is attempting to create a nuclear weapons capability. If they can, then an enforced regime change will be attempted. Otherwise Iran will continue to be poked with a sharp stick until it overreacts and gives the US an excuse to act.
mark merrens wrote:
Iran has rockets that can easily reach Israel (and beyond I think) so if they were to achieve that capability the fear is that they would use them without further ado.
Achieving what, precisely? Don't you think the 'fallout' of such an action might be ever so slightly detrimental to Iran?
mark merrens wrote:
They have clearly stated their intention to remove Israel from the map
Or perhaps something more nuanced, like "This regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time." Rather as the regime in the USSR did, and as the regime in Iran will, given time.
mark merrens wrote:
and have proved somehwat intransigent when it comes to allowing foreign inspections of their facilities.
As are the USA and Russia. But, then, the NPT contains 'acceptable intransigence' clauses for those that wrote it.
mark merrens wrote:
Israel would not be able to risk that they would ... try again in a few years.
Did you copy and paste this from Stratfor - Political Analysts to the Stars? :)
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
ict558 wrote:
Would that were true.
It is. Your anti-US bias is showing.
ict558 wrote:
Achieving what, precisely? Don't you think the 'fallout' of such an action might be ever so slightly detrimental to Iran?
That's risible: it's quite a long way from Israel to Iran and they won't have high yield weapons. Besides, I really don't think they care if some of their own population die if they achieve what they have threatened to do.
ict558 wrote:
Or perhaps something more nuanced, like "This regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time." Rather as the regime in the USSR did, and as the regime in Iran will, given time.
Wow! Selective ignorance. Breathtaking. Iran has sworn to eradicate both Israel and her Jewish population: you can read it any way you want; doesn't change the truth.
ict558 wrote:
As are the USA and Russia. But, then, the NPT contains 'acceptable intransigence' clauses for those that wrote it.
Now you're trying to deflect. We're not talking about the US or Russia: we're talking about Iran.
ict558 wrote:
Did you copy and paste this from Stratfor - Political Analysts to the Stars?
I have to admnit that I had to look that up: never heard of it before so, no but I'm more than happy if they want to quote me.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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basically the zionists from AIPAC (seemingly the most powerful lobby grp in DC) and Israel are forcing your boys n girls into harms way when really Iran having a nuke wouldnt make a lick of difference since most of the neighbours do anyway. Iran wants to use less of its own oil because its profitable to sell it, Iran wants to be energy independent.... Israel has the 5th largest WMD arsenal on the planet and they commit war crimes on a monthly basis(with US weapons) against the palestines. It will start WWIII though...:~ because China and Russia have massive investments in Iran and would like to see those investments mature USA hit peak Oil production in 1971 and has been stealing it from arabs ever since... The reason Iran hates you guys so much is the CIA / MI5 installed the "shah of Iran" a brutal dictator that bleed his people dry until the revolution, BP did real well though.
Yawn: that is a very blinkered and somewhat prejudiced perspective so difficult to take your ranting seriously.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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basically the zionists from AIPAC (seemingly the most powerful lobby grp in DC) and Israel are forcing your boys n girls into harms way when really Iran having a nuke wouldnt make a lick of difference since most of the neighbours do anyway. Iran wants to use less of its own oil because its profitable to sell it, Iran wants to be energy independent.... Israel has the 5th largest WMD arsenal on the planet and they commit war crimes on a monthly basis(with US weapons) against the palestines. It will start WWIII though...:~ because China and Russia have massive investments in Iran and would like to see those investments mature USA hit peak Oil production in 1971 and has been stealing it from arabs ever since... The reason Iran hates you guys so much is the CIA / MI5 installed the "shah of Iran" a brutal dictator that bleed his people dry until the revolution, BP did real well though.
Why, when I read posts like this, do I feel that you are using zionists as a rude word?
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
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It's based on what I see reported on a variety of news channels. Russia is reportedly rebuilding its military and Putin appears to be an old style communist thinly disguised as a man of action who's said on the past that he wants Russia to have a wider rol eon the world stage. No one spoke about the cold war - I've no idea wher you got that form. Given what I have seen and read I epxressed an opinion - no need to be rude (which is what I gave you a 1 for)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I don’t know what is Putin like and what he thinks (and so do you), but I’m fed up from black-white views. That’s why I was rude; and I was rude, sorry for this (note to self: don’t post before the morning coffee!). I think that over-suspicions and the biased cold war mentality are gradually ruling-out one possible strong allay. The examples are plenty even in this forum. If Russians resurrect their imperial ambitions this is another story, but blaming them based on our suspicions that they may do so is not my thing. I read recently an article from American sociologist specialized on this subject, and his opinion was that the last thing most of the Russians want is their late “empire”, in fact they have been happy to get rid from all this dead weight. I don’t know if this is true, but the guy was sounding very reasonable.
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I don’t know what is Putin like and what he thinks (and so do you), but I’m fed up from black-white views. That’s why I was rude; and I was rude, sorry for this (note to self: don’t post before the morning coffee!). I think that over-suspicions and the biased cold war mentality are gradually ruling-out one possible strong allay. The examples are plenty even in this forum. If Russians resurrect their imperial ambitions this is another story, but blaming them based on our suspicions that they may do so is not my thing. I read recently an article from American sociologist specialized on this subject, and his opinion was that the last thing most of the Russians want is their late “empire”, in fact they have been happy to get rid from all this dead weight. I don’t know if this is true, but the guy was sounding very reasonable.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
You're missing the point: we can only form opinions based on what we see, hear, read and experience. I have seen, heard and read a variety of views on Putin over a number of years from many sources whiuch lead me to believe that he is a power hungry poltician who will do anything to stay at the top and who has, reportedely, said that he wants to build Russia's military back to it's former glory (whatver that might have been). I said I would be more suspicious of Russia than China right now based on the context of the conversation and what I think about Putin. It's a discussion of possibilities, that's all. Relaise that and keep your rudeness to yourself - I really don't care that you haven't had your coffee - if you can't be civil then say nothing.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I'm hearing a lot from my brother about a possible war breaking out with Iran involving the US and Israel. I am having issue finding good links about what sort of sanctions are in place now, what acts have been taken, or what types of things make everyone think we are going towards a war. If someone could provide some decent informative links I'd be thankful. I'm finding lots of long blogs and the like, but they aren't really saying anything. All I want is information. I know for a fact that all my brothers information comes from American media (through television mostly), and I'm trying to follow up but all I can find are crap posts that talk alot but don't really give any information (or facts from what I can see).
If it moves, compile it
Iran was historically the first democracy that the US and Britain messed up. That made the people angry for some reason, which made way for the Islamic revolution in 1979; which had put a bunch uneducated peasants in charge and they all hate us now. Now this guy is trying to turn Iran in a more progressive direction; which even though it's a slow process that would take many of years, we don't like because that would mean with it's 70 million people it would become somewhat of a superpower. The rest you probably know already.
Giraffes are not real.
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You're missing the point: we can only form opinions based on what we see, hear, read and experience. I have seen, heard and read a variety of views on Putin over a number of years from many sources whiuch lead me to believe that he is a power hungry poltician who will do anything to stay at the top and who has, reportedely, said that he wants to build Russia's military back to it's former glory (whatver that might have been). I said I would be more suspicious of Russia than China right now based on the context of the conversation and what I think about Putin. It's a discussion of possibilities, that's all. Relaise that and keep your rudeness to yourself - I really don't care that you haven't had your coffee - if you can't be civil then say nothing.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I’m not missing the point. Putin and the guy after him was trying to recreate their military forces after the complete collapse during the Elcin times. And I’m talking completely dysfunctional military. The situation had been so miserable that US had to pay for the security in the Russian nuclear facilities. Then was the fiasco in the first Chechenian war. So one of the reason Putin was elected was because he has promised to fix this pathetic situation. Their rate of buying military equipment is far behind those of China and India and they have to protect 150 million people and territory with the size of North America. This doesn’t makes them a rogue state what IMO you are trying to imply.
mark merrens wrote:
Relaise that and keep your rudeness to yourself - I really don't care that you haven't had your coffee - if you can't be civil then say nothing.
C’mon what did I said that makes me uncivil and keeps you bitter half day?
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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You're missing the point: we can only form opinions based on what we see, hear, read and experience. I have seen, heard and read a variety of views on Putin over a number of years from many sources whiuch lead me to believe that he is a power hungry poltician who will do anything to stay at the top and who has, reportedely, said that he wants to build Russia's military back to it's former glory (whatver that might have been). I said I would be more suspicious of Russia than China right now based on the context of the conversation and what I think about Putin. It's a discussion of possibilities, that's all. Relaise that and keep your rudeness to yourself - I really don't care that you haven't had your coffee - if you can't be civil then say nothing.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
a power hungry poltician who will do anything to stay at the top
Well, you could say that about ANY of them.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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It really boils down to whether or not the allies believe or know that Iran is attempting to create a nuclear weapons capability. Iran has rockets that can easily reach Israel (and beyond I think) so if they were to achieve that cappability the fear is that they would use them without further ado. They have clearly stated their intention to remove Israel from the map and have proved somewhat intransigent when it comes to allowing foreign inspections of their facilities. Israel would not be able to risk that they would use nuclear weapons in an unprovoked attack so will, quite soon I would have thought, attept to destroy Iranian nuclear facilities. The US will back Israel becuase they are allies and have the same fear together with a further fear that Iran would be able to deliver an active nuclear device into the US. Given that is the case and Iran's clear intransigence I feel that something is inevitable. I'm not sure that it will be a large scale war, rather, perhaps, a series of air strikes to demolish their nuclear ambitions. Iran may try to retaliate after that and that may lead to something else but I wouldn't have thought so - they'll have played their cards and lost. Perhaps they'll just rebuild and try again in a few years. If it did devolve into all out war that would be bad for everyone. Just my thoughts. [Note] Bit perplexed as to why this is getting downvoted: it's simply an unbiased summation of how I see the situation. Perhaps one of you can explain why it deserves negative votes?
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
They have clearly stated their intention to remove Israel from the map
When and where? Now here's the truth: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html[^] http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=4527[^]
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Israel is less patient.
Israel has more to lose. Iran is developing nuclear technology, and it's ass-clown president keeps talking about wiping Israel off the map (if news reports are to nbe believed). It's no wonder Israel is getting jumpy...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I’m not missing the point. Putin and the guy after him was trying to recreate their military forces after the complete collapse during the Elcin times. And I’m talking completely dysfunctional military. The situation had been so miserable that US had to pay for the security in the Russian nuclear facilities. Then was the fiasco in the first Chechenian war. So one of the reason Putin was elected was because he has promised to fix this pathetic situation. Their rate of buying military equipment is far behind those of China and India and they have to protect 150 million people and territory with the size of North America. This doesn’t makes them a rogue state what IMO you are trying to imply.
mark merrens wrote:
Relaise that and keep your rudeness to yourself - I really don't care that you haven't had your coffee - if you can't be civil then say nothing.
C’mon what did I said that makes me uncivil and keeps you bitter half day?
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Where did I say Russia are a rogue state??? All I said, if you bothered to read it properly, was that out of China and Russia I would have picked Russia as a country more likely to get involved. To quote: "That’s why I was rude". You said it and I'm not 'bitter', just don't like rude people - no need for it and no excuse.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Where did I say Russia are a rogue state??? All I said, if you bothered to read it properly, was that out of China and Russia I would have picked Russia as a country more likely to get involved. To quote: "That’s why I was rude". You said it and I'm not 'bitter', just don't like rude people - no need for it and no excuse.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
All I said, if you bothered to read it properly, was that out of China and Russia I would have picked Russia as a country more likely to get involved.
I generally agree with that, but it’s slightly different form:
mark merrens wrote:
Russia, on the other hand, is gagging to flex its muscles.
Don’t you think?
mark merrens wrote:
To quote: "That’s why I was rude". You said it and I'm not 'bitter', just don't like rude people - no need for it and no excuse.
Whatever floats your boat.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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basically the zionists from AIPAC (seemingly the most powerful lobby grp in DC) and Israel are forcing your boys n girls into harms way when really Iran having a nuke wouldnt make a lick of difference since most of the neighbours do anyway. Iran wants to use less of its own oil because its profitable to sell it, Iran wants to be energy independent.... Israel has the 5th largest WMD arsenal on the planet and they commit war crimes on a monthly basis(with US weapons) against the palestines. It will start WWIII though...:~ because China and Russia have massive investments in Iran and would like to see those investments mature USA hit peak Oil production in 1971 and has been stealing it from arabs ever since... The reason Iran hates you guys so much is the CIA / MI5 installed the "shah of Iran" a brutal dictator that bleed his people dry until the revolution, BP did real well though.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
and it's ass-clown president keeps talking about wiping Israel off the map (if news reports are to nbe believed)
Didn't you see what I put in parenthesis? I covered that base. You can remove your 1-vote now.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
mark merrens wrote:
All I said, if you bothered to read it properly, was that out of China and Russia I would have picked Russia as a country more likely to get involved.
I generally agree with that, but it’s slightly different form:
mark merrens wrote:
Russia, on the other hand, is gagging to flex its muscles.
Don’t you think?
mark merrens wrote:
To quote: "That’s why I was rude". You said it and I'm not 'bitter', just don't like rude people - no need for it and no excuse.
Whatever floats your boat.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
No, I really feel that Putin, given the chance, would love to reclaim the USSR. He's already won the election with, apparently, massive voter fraud and will, I'm sure help Medvedev back to be PM or similar. So, do I think they're gagging to to flex their muscles? Yes, I do which means I think they're more likely to get involved than China (which is far too involved in making money).
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Whatever floats your boat.
You're just a rude git: you can't stop, can you? No need to answer.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Didn't you see what I put in parenthesis? I covered that base. You can remove your 1-vote now.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Didn't you see what I put in parenthesis?
Yes I did and even quoted it in my reply. But still, I feel that you shouldn't say something without verifying it.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
You can remove your 1-vote now.
Replaced with 5+.
