Shouldn't programmers know how to fix computers?
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So a VB6 developer (the term is loosely applied here) should know how, and have the tools available, to debug Windows drivers written in C++ ?
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
No one is suggesting developers debug drivers. But how can you create a program and hand it over to a customer when you don't even know how a computer works? At least the basics. You can't run to IT every time you run into an external issue causing your code not to work.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Are you kidding?? Right now, I wish "programmers" would figure out how to write code! But, since they have no experience with their own PC, the basics of how Windows works, how the basics of a computer works, basic security, how the Internet works, TCP/IP or HTTP and a web browser, fixing their own PC is now WAY above their heads. I wouldn't trust half these !#)@@#&)-wits to write "Hello World" in Notepad, let alone do it in the code of their own choice!
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Dave Kreskowiak:thumbsup: Too true. However, the particular devs I am referring to have been developing LONGER than me. And I have been doing this for 15 years. Shouldn't you know something about a computer by that point. :)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Does it drive anyone else bonkers when developers keep complaining about their windows PC blue screening?
They do that a lot? Recently? I know it surprised me quite a bit when I managed to do that on Windows 7. It had been so long since I saw the blue screen that I figured it was gone for good. Certainly I almost never saw it on Windows XP. And so far it only happened once on Win 7. Other than that it has been a long time since I felt I was compentent to 'fix' most aspects of a computer itself. Although perhaps you were only referring to fixing applications (code) that the developer created themselves.
My Win7 PC never blue screens but we have 2 devs who's computers blue screen all the time, almost daily. One watches bootleg dvds all day and the other plugs his iPhone into his USB port so I think they bring it on themselves.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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There's helpdesk to deal with that sort of stuff. I don't have to be elephanting around fixing a BSOD.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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No one is suggesting developers debug drivers. But how can you create a program and hand it over to a customer when you don't even know how a computer works? At least the basics. You can't run to IT every time you run into an external issue causing your code not to work.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
So everyone on the assembly line in China knows how an iPad works?
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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So everyone on the assembly line in China knows how an iPad works?
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Are you comparing programmers to assembly line workers? I have worked with some unintelligent programmers before but none that were simply assembly line workers. Wouldn't that be like someone who copies and pastes code off of the internet? How could they build an entire app if that is all they knew how to do?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Does it drive anyone else bonkers when developers keep complaining about their windows PC blue screening? If you know how to program why can't you figure out how to fix your own computer, or at least start researching?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Does it drive anyone else bonkers when developers keep complaining about their windows PC blue screening? If you know how to program why can't you figure out how to fix your own computer, or at least start researching?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
you ryanb31, are a boob.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
Does it drive anyone else bonkers when developers keep complaining about their windows PC blue screening? If you know how to program why can't you figure out how to fix your own computer, or at least start researching?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I know how to drive, however when my car breaks down I don't necessarily know the intricacies of how the electronics and mechanics of my car contributed to the breakdown... That's what I pay a mechanic to know...
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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lewax00 wrote:
But those cases are a significantly different, the computer is your tool and you should know how to maintain your own tools.
I know someone who drives a dump truck for a living. And he takes it to a mechanic for all maintenance. I am pretty sure electricians don't cast their own screw drivers nor build their own wire strippers. And when those tools break they go buy another one. Other than that could you provide an analogous occupation where the participants use tools and maintain those tools?
jschell wrote:
Other than that could you provide an analogous occupation where the participants use tools and maintain those tools?
As part of my apprenticeship we took tool making where I learnt to make screwdrivers and chisels and so on. When I started to work for real I bought all my tools (from Snap-On: beautiful kit - still have some) but would sharpen my chisels and drills, make the odd specialist tool or fix, where I could, anything else or just give it back to the Snap-On man for a new one. One of the most important aspects was keeping your tools clean and in good condition (you make a living with them) so my tool box and tools were always clean and shiny. Never, ever, ever lend tools to anyone.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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jschell wrote:
Other than that could you provide an analogous occupation where the participants use tools and maintain those tools?
As part of my apprenticeship we took tool making where I learnt to make screwdrivers and chisels and so on. When I started to work for real I bought all my tools (from Snap-On: beautiful kit - still have some) but would sharpen my chisels and drills, make the odd specialist tool or fix, where I could, anything else or just give it back to the Snap-On man for a new one. One of the most important aspects was keeping your tools clean and in good condition (you make a living with them) so my tool box and tools were always clean and shiny. Never, ever, ever lend tools to anyone.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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you ryanb31, are a boob.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
Not at our small company.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
That was kinda my point. You were generalising it like if everyone should be fixing their own BSODs and stuff. While I agree that someone - anyone writing code with me should know how to deal with a situation like that, I wouldn't want them to spend any time doing that. If I've a bsod on my machine, I'll continue work on my 'other' machine. And if that fails, there's the laptop. If that fails too, I'll raise a high priority helpdesk ticket (showstopper level), send an email to my manager, and go home. It may be a different story in a small company, but my opinion is that the kind of money they pay us programmers will be justified only if we spend our hours productively, doing our work. Not fixing a BSOD.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
-
I know how to drive, however when my car breaks down I don't necessarily know the intricacies of how the electronics and mechanics of my car contributed to the breakdown... That's what I pay a mechanic to know...
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
-
This is about the same as running scan disk and defrag, and writing software.
If it moves, compile it
Perhaps. :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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That was kinda my point. You were generalising it like if everyone should be fixing their own BSODs and stuff. While I agree that someone - anyone writing code with me should know how to deal with a situation like that, I wouldn't want them to spend any time doing that. If I've a bsod on my machine, I'll continue work on my 'other' machine. And if that fails, there's the laptop. If that fails too, I'll raise a high priority helpdesk ticket (showstopper level), send an email to my manager, and go home. It may be a different story in a small company, but my opinion is that the kind of money they pay us programmers will be justified only if we spend our hours productively, doing our work. Not fixing a BSOD.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
-
Does it drive anyone else bonkers when developers keep complaining about their windows PC blue screening? If you know how to program why can't you figure out how to fix your own computer, or at least start researching?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
Does it drive anyone else bonkers when developers keep complaining about their windows PC blue screening? If you know how to program why can't you figure out how to fix your own computer, or at least start researching?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
This is about the same as running scan disk and defrag, and writing software.
If it moves, compile it
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you ryanb31, are a boob.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
