More on Iran...
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This[^] on the BBC. In theory this could force their hand a wee bit since it will become very difficult for Iran to function: only really has China and India as customers and they will have to pay in gold for whatever they get. Again, whilst this may make life very awkward for the Iranian people it'll do little to the politicians. Oh well.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Yeah, its a nice move. "Be antisocial and we will exclude you". Should work. The basic Iranian is a well educated, intelligent, considerate person. They have a developed and modern society, very unlike the Arabs. Of course they have a ridiculous religious repression and a working class buffoon in power, little better than Chavez for his ability to spout crap. Recall the protests a few years back. If enough pressure is bought to bear on Iranian society they could force a regime change.
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Yeah, its a nice move. "Be antisocial and we will exclude you". Should work. The basic Iranian is a well educated, intelligent, considerate person. They have a developed and modern society, very unlike the Arabs. Of course they have a ridiculous religious repression and a working class buffoon in power, little better than Chavez for his ability to spout crap. Recall the protests a few years back. If enough pressure is bought to bear on Iranian society they could force a regime change.
============================== Nothing to say.
Exactly. In another forum there was a guy (some Bulgarian engineer) who was visiting Iran quite often for some developing projects. So his opinion about Iranians was one-to-one with yours. Military intervention most likely will unite the great unwashed around their leaders no matter how loon they are. On the other hand, hunger and economical misfortune calls for a regime change.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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They did a similar thing to Iraq a couple of decades ago, then systematically disarmed it so it would not be able to resist an invasion and then successfully invaded it. Something tells me that the trick would not work with Iran.
Do you really want to see these nutcases with a nuclear bomb in their hands?
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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ict558 wrote:
Same reason you were kept scared of the USSR. Because your government prefers you scared.
This is stupidest thing I've ever heard EVER on any forum on any website. The Soviets killed un-told MILLIONS dwarfing Hitler and promulgated an ideology that resulted in many more nations killing MILLIONS more and enslaving whole societies. Realize it was just an idea in people's heads, and that made it look like an actual zombie uprising on a global scale. And, our US government was pussified regarding the Soviet's. Senator Joseph McCarthy BARELY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE! We should have had 100 Joseph McCarthy's in our senate at the time.
While I agree what you say about the Soviets, McCarthy was a fraud and an idiot. Learn some history and the truth. Go ahead, google search Joseph McCarthy, I dare ya. BTW, I didn't downvote you.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Do you really want to see these nutcases with a nuclear bomb in their hands?
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Well, if the world is very serious about disarming countries that possess nuclear weapons, why not start with the country that actually used nuclear weapons against another country? why not start with the country that threats to attack another country?
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ict558 wrote:
Same reason you were kept scared of the USSR. Because your government prefers you scared.
This is stupidest thing I've ever heard EVER on any forum on any website. The Soviets killed un-told MILLIONS dwarfing Hitler and promulgated an ideology that resulted in many more nations killing MILLIONS more and enslaving whole societies. Realize it was just an idea in people's heads, and that made it look like an actual zombie uprising on a global scale. And, our US government was pussified regarding the Soviet's. Senator Joseph McCarthy BARELY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE! We should have had 100 Joseph McCarthy's in our senate at the time.
puromtec1 wrote:
This is stupidest thing I've ever heard EVER on any forum on any website. The Soviets killed un-told MILLIONS dwarfing Hitler and promulgated an ideology that resulted in many more nations killing MILLIONS more and enslaving whole societies. Realize it was just an idea in people's heads, and that made it look like an actual zombie uprising on a global scale.
Yep. That's the sort of mindless hysteria I was getting at. Whereas we, who were much more likely to be absorbed into the Soviet Empire, got on with our lives.
puromtec1 wrote:
We should have had 100 Joseph McCarthy's in our senate at the time.
You surely deserved no fewer.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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puromtec1 wrote:
This is stupidest thing I've ever heard EVER on any forum on any website. The Soviets killed un-told MILLIONS dwarfing Hitler and promulgated an ideology that resulted in many more nations killing MILLIONS more and enslaving whole societies. Realize it was just an idea in people's heads, and that made it look like an actual zombie uprising on a global scale.
Yep. That's the sort of mindless hysteria I was getting at. Whereas we, who were much more likely to be absorbed into the Soviet Empire, got on with our lives.
puromtec1 wrote:
We should have had 100 Joseph McCarthy's in our senate at the time.
You surely deserved no fewer.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
Absorbtion? Have you ever heard of the Cuban Missle Crisis. And, how much of Latin America was impacted by Soviet-exported totalitarianism?. Should we care about our immediate neighbor getting raped and murdered? I guess that the asnwer is really up to each of us to determine on our own. Maybe we (USA) could have just let the Nazis have all of Europe (if the Japanese empire didn't attack us)? I really do enjoy German chocolates and mustards.
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Exactly. In another forum there was a guy (some Bulgarian engineer) who was visiting Iran quite often for some developing projects. So his opinion about Iranians was one-to-one with yours. Military intervention most likely will unite the great unwashed around their leaders no matter how loon they are. On the other hand, hunger and economical misfortune calls for a regime change.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
-
Absorbtion? Have you ever heard of the Cuban Missle Crisis. And, how much of Latin America was impacted by Soviet-exported totalitarianism?. Should we care about our immediate neighbor getting raped and murdered? I guess that the asnwer is really up to each of us to determine on our own. Maybe we (USA) could have just let the Nazis have all of Europe (if the Japanese empire didn't attack us)? I really do enjoy German chocolates and mustards.
puromtec1 wrote:
Have you ever heard of the Cuban Missle Crisis.
Lived through it. No big deal. Pre Missile Crisis: USSR Missiles in Cuba? No. USA Missiles in Turkey? Yes. Post Missile Crisis: USSR Missiles in Cuba? No. USA Missiles in Turkey? No. Was that why JFK was assassinated? Too weak to be President?
puromtec1 wrote:
And, how much of Latin America was impacted by Soviet-exported totalitarianism?
You were afraid that these guys would invade a nuclear armed USA and take over? More hysteria.
puromtec1 wrote:
Should we care about our immediate neighbor getting raped and murdered?
Yes. And especially when it is your murderous dictators who are doing the raping and murdering.
puromtec1 wrote:
Maybe we (USA) could have just let the Nazis have all of Europe
Which is exactly what the US fat cats intended to do.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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killabyte wrote:
I really dont think even the most extreme elements in Iran would consider using nukes preemitively.
What the PHUCK are you smoking? They intend to wipe Israel off the map! Of course, they intend to use nukes! Why in the hell do you think everyone is so scared about it? Next, you'll say that it would be insane for them to do so, they'd be signing their own death warrant. And? Are you telling me they're *not* insane? Even so, it's likely they'll give the nukes to some third party and make it look like someone else did it. PHUCK, get a brain!
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
While I agree what you say about the Soviets, McCarthy was a fraud and an idiot. Learn some history and the truth. Go ahead, google search Joseph McCarthy, I dare ya. BTW, I didn't downvote you.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
puromtec1 wrote:
This is stupidest thing I've ever heard EVER on any forum on any website. The Soviets killed un-told MILLIONS dwarfing Hitler and promulgated an ideology that resulted in many more nations killing MILLIONS more and enslaving whole societies. Realize it was just an idea in people's heads, and that made it look like an actual zombie uprising on a global scale.
Yep. That's the sort of mindless hysteria I was getting at. Whereas we, who were much more likely to be absorbed into the Soviet Empire, got on with our lives.
puromtec1 wrote:
We should have had 100 Joseph McCarthy's in our senate at the time.
You surely deserved no fewer.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
ict558 wrote:
Whereas we, who were much more likely to be absorbed into the Soviet Empire, got on with our lives.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "we" but the nuclear threat of the US along with the absolute belief that the US was willing to use them had a strong impact on restricting the USSR expansion. Didn't hurt of course that USSR didn't have even close to the capability that the US did in that area.
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ict558 wrote:
Whereas we, who were much more likely to be absorbed into the Soviet Empire, got on with our lives.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "we" but the nuclear threat of the US along with the absolute belief that the US was willing to use them had a strong impact on restricting the USSR expansion. Didn't hurt of course that USSR didn't have even close to the capability that the US did in that area.
jschell wrote:
Not sure exactly what you mean by "we"
Not "you" (S A, that is.)
jschell wrote:
the nuclear threat of the US along with the absolute belief that the US was willing to use them had a strong impact on restricting the USSR expansion.
And vice-versa. Hence the global proxy wars for decades. But you are undermining puromtec1. According to him, these were mindless zombie-like creatures, willing to sacrifice millions to promulgate their ideology, not rational beings who could weigh probable consequences against likely gains.
jschell wrote:
Didn't hurt of course that USSR didn't have even close to the capability that the US did in that area.
And yet, in the 50s, 60s and 70s (and even when the USSR was obviously collapsing), US politicians portrayed the US as being on the verge of losing its life-and-death struggle against an implacable, ruthless, evil foe. Why? Why do they want you scared?
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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killabyte wrote:
I really dont think even the most extreme elements in Iran would consider using nukes preemitively.
What the PHUCK are you smoking? They intend to wipe Israel off the map! Of course, they intend to use nukes! Why in the hell do you think everyone is so scared about it? Next, you'll say that it would be insane for them to do so, they'd be signing their own death warrant. And? Are you telling me they're *not* insane? Even so, it's likely they'll give the nukes to some third party and make it look like someone else did it. PHUCK, get a brain!
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
Even so, it's likely they'll give the nukes to some third party and make it look like someone else did it.
Has Pakistan, with the Muslim Bomb, done that? Why should the world fear the Shiite Bomb?
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
McCarthy was a fraud and an idiot. Learn some history and the truth
Although McCarthy was an extremist and the process exceed reasonableness the fact remains that there was in fact truth to some of the allegations.
jschell wrote:
there was in fact truth to some of the allegations.
agreed
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
ahmed zahmed wrote:
Even so, it's likely they'll give the nukes to some third party and make it look like someone else did it.
Has Pakistan, with the Muslim Bomb, done that? Why should the world fear the Shiite Bomb?
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jschell wrote:
Not sure exactly what you mean by "we"
Not "you" (S A, that is.)
jschell wrote:
the nuclear threat of the US along with the absolute belief that the US was willing to use them had a strong impact on restricting the USSR expansion.
And vice-versa. Hence the global proxy wars for decades. But you are undermining puromtec1. According to him, these were mindless zombie-like creatures, willing to sacrifice millions to promulgate their ideology, not rational beings who could weigh probable consequences against likely gains.
jschell wrote:
Didn't hurt of course that USSR didn't have even close to the capability that the US did in that area.
And yet, in the 50s, 60s and 70s (and even when the USSR was obviously collapsing), US politicians portrayed the US as being on the verge of losing its life-and-death struggle against an implacable, ruthless, evil foe. Why? Why do they want you scared?
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
ict558 wrote:
And vice-versa. Hence the global proxy wars for decades.
Nonsense. The US didn't have an aggressive expansionist policy in place at that time.
ict558 wrote:
According to him, these were mindless zombie-like creatures, willing to sacrifice millions to promulgate their ideology, not rational beings who could weigh probable consequences against likely gains.
I am responding to exactly what I quoted.
ict558 wrote:
And yet, in the 50s, 60s and 70s (and even when the USSR was obviously collapsing), US politicians portrayed the US as being on the verge of losing its life-and-death struggle against an implacable, ruthless, evil foe. Why?
I suggest you read some recent history...because at the time the US didn't know how little capability that they had. Not to mention that they did have some capability and to the average citizen they were not only concerned with the national impact of such a war but the impact in the own locality.
ict558 wrote:
Why do they want you scared?
No idea who you think "they" are. If it refers to some super powered cabal of 'powerful' interests then no such thing exists.
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Vivic wrote:
Why should the world fear the Shiite Bomb?
Please do explain why the world shouldn't fear that.
jschell wrote:
Please do explain why the world shouldn't fear that (the Shiite Bomb).
I already did. My first sentence was that Pakistan, with its Muslim Bomb, has not attempted to hand it over to a non-State actor to explode one in Israel (possessor of the Jewish Bomb)/India (possessor of the Hindu Bomb)/Afghanistan (against US troops). Lack of comprehension? Attention Deficit Disorder? Follower of Faux News? What is your explanation?
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jschell wrote:
Please do explain why the world shouldn't fear that (the Shiite Bomb).
I already did. My first sentence was that Pakistan, with its Muslim Bomb, has not attempted to hand it over to a non-State actor to explode one in Israel (possessor of the Jewish Bomb)/India (possessor of the Hindu Bomb)/Afghanistan (against US troops). Lack of comprehension? Attention Deficit Disorder? Follower of Faux News? What is your explanation?
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ict558 wrote:
And vice-versa. Hence the global proxy wars for decades.
Nonsense. The US didn't have an aggressive expansionist policy in place at that time.
ict558 wrote:
According to him, these were mindless zombie-like creatures, willing to sacrifice millions to promulgate their ideology, not rational beings who could weigh probable consequences against likely gains.
I am responding to exactly what I quoted.
ict558 wrote:
And yet, in the 50s, 60s and 70s (and even when the USSR was obviously collapsing), US politicians portrayed the US as being on the verge of losing its life-and-death struggle against an implacable, ruthless, evil foe. Why?
I suggest you read some recent history...because at the time the US didn't know how little capability that they had. Not to mention that they did have some capability and to the average citizen they were not only concerned with the national impact of such a war but the impact in the own locality.
ict558 wrote:
Why do they want you scared?
No idea who you think "they" are. If it refers to some super powered cabal of 'powerful' interests then no such thing exists.
jschell wrote:
Nonsense.
So Korea and Vietnam were not proxy wars for the USSR? Cuba and Afghanistan 1 were not proxy wars for the USA? Angola was not a proxy war for both the USA and the USSR?
jschell wrote:
I am responding to exactly what I quoted.
Yeah, but there was always a chance that Mr P might read it. :)
jschell wrote:
I suggest you read some recent history...
Which merely dots the 'i's and crosses the 't's of what was believed to be true at the time: that the USA was technologically greatly superior to the USSR, that if the USSR tried a 'first strike', they would be annihilated. (Anyone who had encountered Soviet technology found it difficult to believe the scaremongers.)
jschell wrote:
No idea who you think "they" are.
Context:
ict558 wrote:
US politicians portrayed the US as being on the verge of losing its life-and-death struggle against an implacable, ruthless, evil foe.
jschell wrote:
If it refers to some super powered cabal of 'powerful' interests then no such thing exists.
And you call yourself an American!
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon