Why it's OK to leave a tech job at 5 p.m.
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/tech/web/cashmore-facebook-sandberg/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11[^] I have learned long ago I'm much more productive by not working long hours. Of course there are those occasions when you do need to work extra, but that is the exception, not the rule. I've often told client managers that I don't work overtime because of their poor planning.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
I make a rule: Never Work More Than 8 Hours! I find that is more than enough in any week.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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Working extra 5 or 10 hours a week doesn't sound too bad until you realize that 45 hours a week is 1 extra hour a day or 12.5% extra time. 50 hours a week is 2 extra hours a day or working full day on Saturday and is 25% extra time. It's one thing if you get paid overtime, it's completely different if you do not. What's wrong with working just extra hour a day? 12.5% difference in salary that you don't get!
I used this type of argument when interviewing for a position where the manager told me 10 hour days were expected. He didn't see the need to increase the salary and I didn't see the need to work there. It was a win/win.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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I make a rule: Never Work More Than 8 Hours! I find that is more than enough in any week.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
Dalek Dave wrote:
more than enough in any week.
or month...or year :)
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/tech/web/cashmore-facebook-sandberg/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11[^] I have learned long ago I'm much more productive by not working long hours. Of course there are those occasions when you do need to work extra, but that is the exception, not the rule. I've often told client managers that I don't work overtime because of their poor planning.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
I saw this article on CNN as well this morning. I agree with you and others here on working overtime as SOP. I only work extra hours/days when the situation absolutely calls for it.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
I make a rule: Never Work More Than 8 Hours! I find that is more than enough in any week.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
Dalek Dave wrote:
I find that is more than enough in any week.
:thumbsup::cool:
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
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exactly, I have made this a non negotiable. Sure I will work the occasional weekend and I will work a week or so here and there of 80 hours when required but as soon as this gets to be the norm. I am looking. I have been very forthright with my employers about this. That isn't to say I don't average about 45 hours a week. But I barely ever work more than 50. So that is that. I think the thing here for employers is that tech jobs are easy to come by and tech people well they are not so easy to come by. So at the moment we are able to actually be treated as a normal person again. At least for awhile.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
rnbergren wrote:
and good tech people well they are not so easy to come by.
FTFY
Common sense is not a gift it's a curse. Those of us who have it have to deal with those that don't.... Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/tech/web/cashmore-facebook-sandberg/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11[^] I have learned long ago I'm much more productive by not working long hours. Of course there are those occasions when you do need to work extra, but that is the exception, not the rule. I've often told client managers that I don't work overtime because of their poor planning.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
You should do the work you're being paid for. For most of us that's 9-5 or similar (it's 7½ hours plus lunchtime for us, so 9-5.30 if you take a nice long hour lunch like me), by choice because that gives us enough money to afford life and enough time to live it. Unless you've intentionally chosen to work more for overtime pay (at some times in our lives that is a good thing to do), you shouldn't, and you should be prepared to make that argument to your manager. Fortunately, my company is excellent and there is no pressure to give extra free hours to them, and, on the rare occasions that there is external time pressure applied, people get compensated for it.
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/tech/web/cashmore-facebook-sandberg/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11[^] I have learned long ago I'm much more productive by not working long hours. Of course there are those occasions when you do need to work extra, but that is the exception, not the rule. I've often told client managers that I don't work overtime because of their poor planning.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
I've learned over the years that most engineers, myself in included, are good for about six hours of concentrated mental work a day. When making educational films, I learned that adults become increasingly unproductive after ten hours, even if they aren't working very hard [due to circumstances, such as waiting for the rain to stop.] Minors are good for half that. This doesn't mean they won't try, but the quality of their work markedly declines. What suffers the most are the details.
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I've learned over the years that most engineers, myself in included, are good for about six hours of concentrated mental work a day. When making educational films, I learned that adults become increasingly unproductive after ten hours, even if they aren't working very hard [due to circumstances, such as waiting for the rain to stop.] Minors are good for half that. This doesn't mean they won't try, but the quality of their work markedly declines. What suffers the most are the details.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
When making educational films
Educational? ;) Right :-D
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/tech/web/cashmore-facebook-sandberg/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11[^] I have learned long ago I'm much more productive by not working long hours. Of course there are those occasions when you do need to work extra, but that is the exception, not the rule. I've often told client managers that I don't work overtime because of their poor planning.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
When making educational films
Educational? ;) Right :-D
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
I would have made more money had they been "educational."
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/tech/web/cashmore-facebook-sandberg/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11[^] I have learned long ago I'm much more productive by not working long hours. Of course there are those occasions when you do need to work extra, but that is the exception, not the rule. I've often told client managers that I don't work overtime because of their poor planning.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Totally. I worked for a few years under a totalitarian, workaholic, hero boss. He expected me to be a workaholic hero underling. Until one year, in September, after we all acknowledged the contingency time in the project was all burned up, we took on another customer and he said "you are going to be working some long days and weekends for the rest of the year." At that point I made a rule to ignore all hints at required overtime. The result? Healthier me, reduction in bug reports, pay rise...
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/tech/web/cashmore-facebook-sandberg/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11[^] I have learned long ago I'm much more productive by not working long hours. Of course there are those occasions when you do need to work extra, but that is the exception, not the rule. I've often told client managers that I don't work overtime because of their poor planning.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Well, for many years I worked a 8 - 5 job. I rode in a car pool, so unless previous arrangements were made, I had to leave with the car pool or be left behind. I was also a single parent raising 3 children, so my time at home was not negotiable. Once or twice someone told me I should be working more hours and my response was: "If I can't get my job done in a 8 - 5 work day, I need to find a job I'm capable of doing."
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Couldn't agree more: I've worked an 8 hour day for years. If overtime is required (once or twice that I can recall in the last 10 years) then I'm willing to be flexible; however, I just don't think that extra hours get the job done, they just satisfy a bureaucratic need.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
however, I just don't think that extra hours get the job done, they just satisfy a bureaucratic need.
Get given a 6-hour project at 4:50PM that has to be completed by 8:00AM the following day, and tell me that working extra hours doesn't get the job done :sigh:
-= Reelix =-
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I make a rule: Never Work More Than 8 Hours! I find that is more than enough in any week.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
8 hours a week sounds good to me :cool:
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mark merrens wrote:
however, I just don't think that extra hours get the job done, they just satisfy a bureaucratic need.
Get given a 6-hour project at 4:50PM that has to be completed by 8:00AM the following day, and tell me that working extra hours doesn't get the job done :sigh:
-= Reelix =-
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I've learned over the years that most engineers, myself in included, are good for about six hours of concentrated mental work a day. When making educational films, I learned that adults become increasingly unproductive after ten hours, even if they aren't working very hard [due to circumstances, such as waiting for the rain to stop.] Minors are good for half that. This doesn't mean they won't try, but the quality of their work markedly declines. What suffers the most are the details.
As much as I'd love to agree, there are some that ruin this curve and can work 14+ hours a day productively, albeit only for a month or two at a time before needing a multi-day break (this does not include weekends)
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Couldn't agree more: I've worked an 8 hour day for years. If overtime is required (once or twice that I can recall in the last 10 years) then I'm willing to be flexible; however, I just don't think that extra hours get the job done, they just satisfy a bureaucratic need.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Agree completely, the more you achieve the more you are expected to achieve. My first development roll we were doing 100+ hour weeks for about 2 years :zzz: The quality of the code in that business was poor to say the best and costed the company much more to rectify the issue. I pretty much work 8 hours a day now and never find myself in the same situation, its also made me a much better developer as you think about how you do things rather than just knocking code out to get something done. Increasing hours is all about diminishing returns...
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/tech/web/cashmore-facebook-sandberg/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11[^] I have learned long ago I'm much more productive by not working long hours. Of course there are those occasions when you do need to work extra, but that is the exception, not the rule. I've often told client managers that I don't work overtime because of their poor planning.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
I'm of the opinion, and it is my opinion, that overtime is nothing more than slavery. I worked at a place years ago where the company required the cancellation of vacations that had been planned months in advance. I was told that the deposits were reimbursed. OK so the company reimbursed the deposits. How do you reimburse your family for the disappointment of not being able to go on the much anticipated trip? I don't care if you get paid good money or not. No employer has the right to treat their employees with such a slave master attitude as that. When an employer can demand that you work overtime, or cancel your vacation time, you are no longer an employee, you are a slave plain and simple. By the way. The government backs up these employer attitudes to a big degree.
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"tell me that working extra hours doesn't get the job done" - true, but it also encourages the bad management / planning that got you into that situation in the first place ;)
It encourages them to give you a salary lol. For example we have 9 months for 5 releases, and each one is a lot of work, so every year the 5th release get's rushed, and requires a lot of overtime. We all know it's gonna happen every year, and every attempt(bureaucratic and practical) has failed to solve the issue.