Dvorak keyboard layout
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Contrary to popular belief Qwerty was a well researched layout--an early example of usability research. Experiments have not found Dvorak to be superior. Familiarity and practice are the most important factor in typing speed. In the end, some people like it, some don't. I never saw the point of learning since most people know qwerty and that's what keyboards they have.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Experiments have not found Dvorak to be superior.
Can you quote your source on this? I doubt you have tracked every single experiment ever done. At any rate, what mathematical analyses and lab experiments won't tell you is that dvorak is far more comfortable on the hands and wrists during marathon typing sessions, which I accomplish daily. I don't need a graph to know at 5pm that I have made the right choice.
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
Hi Brad, I have been using Dvorak for about a year and 1/2. Took 3 days to earn and still learning. I do not type all day long, if I did I would be faster. I am 60 years old and needed something new to learn to stay sharp. If I had to use a keyboard that would not change I would not want to learn the Dvorak. I do not move the keys I only change them in software. When others want to use the keyboard I hit cntl 1. I love the Dvorak. Bradley :)
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
Keyboard for REAL programmers[^]
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
Experiments have not found Dvorak to be superior.
Can you quote your source on this? I doubt you have tracked every single experiment ever done. At any rate, what mathematical analyses and lab experiments won't tell you is that dvorak is far more comfortable on the hands and wrists during marathon typing sessions, which I accomplish daily. I don't need a graph to know at 5pm that I have made the right choice.
Several years ago, I went through dozens of studies. Some found it helped you type faster, other studies found it didn't. Some studies found keyboard layouts slightly superior to all and many vastly inferior, including alphabetical layouts.
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Keyboard for REAL programmers[^]
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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Qqwerty was actually made to slow typists down as they typed so fast the old keys would get jammed together.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
Not entirely true. There are several key combinations which still caused jamming in older style typewriters, as anyone who has used such a typewriter can attest to. But it was more than simply avoiding jamming--there are many layouts that could have done that (and enterprising researchers have actually identified what the optimal layout would have been for that.) I read one article a few years back--wish I remembered the reference--which argued, based on examining usability research, that Sholes compromised between jamming and efficiency. Incidentally, here is but one article discussing some of these issues: http://www.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html[^]
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Keyboard for REAL programmers[^]
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
In 1980, in computer class, a fellow came in with a single board computer with an entry system like that. I have a vague recollection that LEDs turned on to indicate what you had entered. After you filled a byte of data, you pressed the "enter" button.
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
i have been using it for more than 10 months. so happy that i dont want to switch back ever. initially it was struggle, so at that time i used to switch to qwerty at pressure times and back at low pressure times.
manoj sharma 09313603665 manoj.great@yahoo.com
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
I've used something also different from "QWERTY", but on russian keyboard: there we had layout like this: JCUKENG FYWAPROLDV ^CSMIT Definitely I typed faster than "QWERTY", but since ALL keyboards I ever seen later was "QWERTY", I forgot about alternative layouts, because I don't want to screw my brains :) I think you'll be fast enough even on "QWERTY" if you'll use it every day. And since you're not data capturer, doubtful you need "supertyping". BTW, DVORAK is not an optimal layout, since you need working all 10 fingers. With JCUKENG you need only two fingers from both hands, since all most usable letters are concenrated in the center of keyboard, not on the "base line".
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
When I started programming I couldn't touch type at all. I used the pointer and middle finger and thumb on both hands. I tried many "typing tutors" without much success on learning quickly. I found the Dvorak layout while searching for a better "tutor". I learned to touch type with the Dvorak layout in two weeks. I'm not sure if it was just that I had old/bad habits with qwerty that were hard to break or if Dvorak is that much better. I also use this keyboard. I started by using the 2020 but now have the 2030 qwerty with the Dvorak skin. It's small enough to carry where ever I go and switches back and forth between Dvorak and Qwerty very easily. I haven't gone completely Dvorak for the sake of those around me. They can peel back the skin and go. Works for me. BTW - that was 11 years ago.
"You can't do today's job with yesterday's methods and be in business tomorrow." -- Anonymous So, "Never interrupt someone doing what you said couldn't be done." -- Amelia Earhart
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
I switched to colemak 3 months ago after not being able to touch type properly. I am enjoying it but dislike that the rest of the world is qwerty and yes it is easier to be a dvorak user as colemak is not a standard layout on Windows.
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Switching to dvorak is the most important improvement I ever made as a hacker. If the keyboard is the primary tool you use to interface with your professional world, any improvements you make should pay you back exponentially. It is hands-down (oh.. my) a superior layout and I have been using it full time for about 15 years now. I can switch back and forth between the two layouts mid-sentence if needed (using other people's computers), although it took a while to acquire that flip-flop fluency. I don't remember how long it took to become comfortable with it, but I do remember it being a struggle. I don't know if I would do it again today since it would slow me down considerably at work in the meantime, and honestly it's hard to suggest it to full-time computer professionals for that reason. When I learned it, though, I was younger and playing a lot of interactive fiction, so I had plenty of opportunity to ease into it without any stress or urgency. Still, if you fancy a challenge that in the long run could improve your efficiency, and in the short term at least be an exciting attempt at something new, you should give it a go. I have never even considered switching back to qwerty. Dvorak, at least in my opinion, is far superior, although, sadly, qwerty is an excellent example of market penetration and momentum of an inferior technology that will probably never be usurped.
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
It took me around three weeks to get fluent at Dvorak, with the help of http://learn.dvorak.nl/[^] and the sort. I'm not sure if I can type faster with Dvorak than with Qwerty, but I think I there are less typos, and it doesn't stress my fingers as much typing for extended periods. I think the main reason that I feel a positive change is that I had to learn Dvorak without doing anything to my QWERTY keyboard, which means that I had to learn this keyboard layout touch-typing all along. I never learnt QWERTY the right way, which meant a lot of typos and backspaces. On downside for me now is that I can hardly use QWERTY anymore. I guess if you don't practice it deliberately, it will just fade from your reflexes.
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And even then they call it "pound"
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]That puzzled me while in Canada where they irritatingly call it the "pound" sign. I thought, what in the Fiend's wildest nightmares could have lead these people to confuse # with £? After a little research, I discovered that # used to be used to signify pounds in weight. It kinda makes sense I guess but it is still weird hearing the automated call systems ask me to press the "pound" key.
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
I spent a lot of time at some point learning Dvorak. I even peeled apart(1) and reorganized my keyboard to that end, and got somewhat proficient at typing Dvorak. But then I realized that just about every keyboard that I will ever encounter that I do not own will be qwerty, and I'm not about to peel apart a brand new laptop that I bought just for a Dvorak keyboard, let alone, say a work laptop that I don't own. So I re-learned qwerty, which ended up being a somewhat painful exercise, because I had grown used to Dvorak at that point, and had to re-learn what I already knew. I don't regret going back to qwerty. I don't think it's better, but it is so universal that I don't see myself as having much of a choice. 1) If you rearrange a Microsoft Natural Keyboard, you will notice that all the keys are wobbly, because each key is slanted to fit the row that it is in.
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
Ahh ... now this is one I haven't seen discussed since about 1995! I think if I tried to switch now (after close to 40 years of typing) I would probably snap a finger or something! I don't care if some say it's "better" - at least I can type on any machine I run into!
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
Remember it's not just a single layout... There are variants for single handed use (right or left handed) Use mouse & keyboard without dropping your mouse...
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Have any of you used this keyboard layout long enough to say that it's better than qwerty? I've heard all the hype but wondered if it was really all that great. How hard is it to learn if you are using multiple computers (obviously some that can't be changed). My keyboard now has all the keys the same size so it would be easy to change over, but a real PITA to learn to type all over again. Although, with as many spelling mistakes that I make, it probably wouldn't be that much slower. For those of you who have tried it, how long did it take to get comfortable with it? Is it hard to switch between the two keyboards? For those of you who switched back to qwerty, why?
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
Learning Dvorak (or almost Dvorak) was easy. What was not and took some time was to be really fluent with it. And by some time, I would say a few month. But I never stopped entirely to use my old keyboard as well (so may be there was some confusion). One of the reasons I am happy with my new keyboard is that I am very regularly typing in French, and there are a whole lot of characters that would be difficult to access, or almost impossible. Now, I know them perfectly, and even better because I never purchased a new keyboard. So it is almost Dvorak because it is the French version of it (bépo), but same principle. I do find that I can still type very fast on a French keyboard, with a few more typos and backspaces than before. I am probably still a bit faster than with the Dvorak. But I miss some characters, and find it a bit more tiring for my hands when I really do a lot of typing. As for the fact that keyboards usually are not Dvorak, there is a small open source app that I have on my USB key that easily allows me to convert the keyboard strikes to Dvorak. And I can still easily enough use other keyboards if needed. I am happy enough with it, but I am not sure I would recommand it for someone using it everyday. Unless Dvorak keyboards start being systematically taught to the young, I don't think we are anywhere close to a switch from QWERTY (or AZERTY in my case).
