Are CRT Monitors dead?
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LG Goes Retro, Introduces New CRT TV[^]
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS My LinkedIn Profile
The B&W feature would be awesome. :-D
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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I replaced my 32" CRT TV at xmas with a 42" flatty. I now realise how small my old TV was in comparison. My next door neighbour nabbed my old one. I also realise that getting a 42" TV was a mistake. There are 60" ones available! (My wife would have a conniptic fit if I brought home a 60", she thinks the 42" is a little too big for our front room).
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
You want to be careful about that. I heard a beautiful definition of working class vs. middle class. Working class - has a TV that's too big for their house Middle class - have a big enough house to fit said TV in
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
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Or indeed CRT TV's? Is it a dinosaur technology? I ask only because we have finally said goodbye to the last CRT monitor in the company. It was a venerable piece of kit, 16" of glorious colour in a beautiful 'Nicotine Yellow' plastic case. Weighing in at about 9 kilos and consuming as much power as a small Hebridean Island it has served its masters well until its final, exasperated, pop and the emission of a tiny puff of smoke. A new flat screen is sitting now in the vast acreage that was previously occupied by the monitor, and the smiling face of the elf as she now has more room to move! Does anybody even make CRT devices or have they gone the same way as the Video Recorder and the 8-track?
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
There may be some applications left where a CRT may still give a more accurate representation of the colors over a wider spectrum, but those will also disappear in time. Otherwise CRTs are by now only good for museum exhibits. Except for my monitor for my first computer of course. It's now almost 35 years old and still works as good as it used to :)
At least artificial intelligence already is superior to natural stupidity
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Or indeed CRT TV's? Is it a dinosaur technology? I ask only because we have finally said goodbye to the last CRT monitor in the company. It was a venerable piece of kit, 16" of glorious colour in a beautiful 'Nicotine Yellow' plastic case. Weighing in at about 9 kilos and consuming as much power as a small Hebridean Island it has served its masters well until its final, exasperated, pop and the emission of a tiny puff of smoke. A new flat screen is sitting now in the vast acreage that was previously occupied by the monitor, and the smiling face of the elf as she now has more room to move! Does anybody even make CRT devices or have they gone the same way as the Video Recorder and the 8-track?
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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Or indeed CRT TV's? Is it a dinosaur technology? I ask only because we have finally said goodbye to the last CRT monitor in the company. It was a venerable piece of kit, 16" of glorious colour in a beautiful 'Nicotine Yellow' plastic case. Weighing in at about 9 kilos and consuming as much power as a small Hebridean Island it has served its masters well until its final, exasperated, pop and the emission of a tiny puff of smoke. A new flat screen is sitting now in the vast acreage that was previously occupied by the monitor, and the smiling face of the elf as she now has more room to move! Does anybody even make CRT devices or have they gone the same way as the Video Recorder and the 8-track?
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
No, certainly not! Magazine graphics artists still buy Sony Trinitron glass VDUs, as for the accurate colour gamut that lcds cannot even get anywhere near to close to covering. Thermionic technology lives, at lease in high-quality publishing houses, and photography studios. I still have a 21" HP (Trinitron based) VDU coupled with an expensive LCD (side-by-side) and the difference is astonishing. Even more so when one compares the final glossy printed page against the two. The CRT can accurately show all of the colours. The LCD is pale, lame, and way off by comparison. A niche market, but an important one.
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No, certainly not! Magazine graphics artists still buy Sony Trinitron glass VDUs, as for the accurate colour gamut that lcds cannot even get anywhere near to close to covering. Thermionic technology lives, at lease in high-quality publishing houses, and photography studios. I still have a 21" HP (Trinitron based) VDU coupled with an expensive LCD (side-by-side) and the difference is astonishing. Even more so when one compares the final glossy printed page against the two. The CRT can accurately show all of the colours. The LCD is pale, lame, and way off by comparison. A niche market, but an important one.
Yayy! some one agrees with me! The reason for the LCD, TFT (non CRT!) looking flat and lame is that there is a lack of colourimetry (or Colorimetry) done for non CRTs. The problem is each panel varies a little in tolerance where as the bulky old CRT this could be compensated with in the design with non CRT it can't. Also the life of the average non-CRT is around a quarter as the florescent tubes burn out much quicker! Glenn:java:
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Yayy! some one agrees with me! The reason for the LCD, TFT (non CRT!) looking flat and lame is that there is a lack of colourimetry (or Colorimetry) done for non CRTs. The problem is each panel varies a little in tolerance where as the bulky old CRT this could be compensated with in the design with non CRT it can't. Also the life of the average non-CRT is around a quarter as the florescent tubes burn out much quicker! Glenn:java:
That's not true. You can buy colorimters for $100-200 and use the results to make corrections at the OS level before outputting the video. NEC's higher end models can use the same data to reprogram internal lookup tables to improve on OS level corrections; they're preprogrammed at the factory to adjust for variations from one part of the panel to the other. IIRC NEC's licensed their onboard correction tech to at least one 3rd party for a 30" model.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I haven't seen any for a while now, but I believe they are used, especially where colour representation is important. I might be out of date, but the last I heard, CRT gives superior colour rendition than LCD or OLED. So photographers, animators, film and video production etc may have a niche market for them.
I Dream of Absolute Zero
RChin wrote:
I might be out of date, but the last I heard, CRT gives superior colour rendition than LCD or OLED.
You are absolutely correct there. The newer technologies are digital and are therefore limited to discreet color levels, whereas a CRT is analog and has more or less has a continuos color range. e.g. integers vs real numbers in terms of color rendition. This shows up most noticeably in dark gradients. A good CRT also has much faster refresh rates, so for applications where you need much faster than 30-60 fps, a CRT is the way to go.
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That's not true. You can buy colorimters for $100-200 and use the results to make corrections at the OS level before outputting the video. NEC's higher end models can use the same data to reprogram internal lookup tables to improve on OS level corrections; they're preprogrammed at the factory to adjust for variations from one part of the panel to the other. IIRC NEC's licensed their onboard correction tech to at least one 3rd party for a 30" model.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
I did not know that, I jumped ship from the Video side back to the RF side about 5 years ago. They were worried that every few weeks the LG & Samsung were changing specs about once a week. I was suffering from Data Sheet poisoning! Mind you that firm were so short armed and deep pocketed I can't seem to think they would pay $1.00 - 2.00 (at one stage they were buying up units that stripped HDMI's Key encryption off signals so they didn't have to pay the licence fee (not to much I always though)) Glenn
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Or indeed CRT TV's? Is it a dinosaur technology? I ask only because we have finally said goodbye to the last CRT monitor in the company. It was a venerable piece of kit, 16" of glorious colour in a beautiful 'Nicotine Yellow' plastic case. Weighing in at about 9 kilos and consuming as much power as a small Hebridean Island it has served its masters well until its final, exasperated, pop and the emission of a tiny puff of smoke. A new flat screen is sitting now in the vast acreage that was previously occupied by the monitor, and the smiling face of the elf as she now has more room to move! Does anybody even make CRT devices or have they gone the same way as the Video Recorder and the 8-track?
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
I still use one Samsung Syncmaster 793s along with my TFT Acer. i can say one thing only. i will use the Samsung until it will die.
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Or indeed CRT TV's? Is it a dinosaur technology? I ask only because we have finally said goodbye to the last CRT monitor in the company. It was a venerable piece of kit, 16" of glorious colour in a beautiful 'Nicotine Yellow' plastic case. Weighing in at about 9 kilos and consuming as much power as a small Hebridean Island it has served its masters well until its final, exasperated, pop and the emission of a tiny puff of smoke. A new flat screen is sitting now in the vast acreage that was previously occupied by the monitor, and the smiling face of the elf as she now has more room to move! Does anybody even make CRT devices or have they gone the same way as the Video Recorder and the 8-track?
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
I'd say they are dead. Flat monitors are cheap nowadays and I haven't seen one for several years. And I do live on labeled 3rd world country (Brazil).
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Or indeed CRT TV's? Is it a dinosaur technology? I ask only because we have finally said goodbye to the last CRT monitor in the company. It was a venerable piece of kit, 16" of glorious colour in a beautiful 'Nicotine Yellow' plastic case. Weighing in at about 9 kilos and consuming as much power as a small Hebridean Island it has served its masters well until its final, exasperated, pop and the emission of a tiny puff of smoke. A new flat screen is sitting now in the vast acreage that was previously occupied by the monitor, and the smiling face of the elf as she now has more room to move! Does anybody even make CRT devices or have they gone the same way as the Video Recorder and the 8-track?
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
I still have my Sony 18-inch CRT attached to my workstation. I forgot how long ago I purchased it. It still provides a clear display and enough screen real-estate to work with all the latest applications and software. However, I know that it is getting close to its "time"... :(
Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com
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Or indeed CRT TV's? Is it a dinosaur technology? I ask only because we have finally said goodbye to the last CRT monitor in the company. It was a venerable piece of kit, 16" of glorious colour in a beautiful 'Nicotine Yellow' plastic case. Weighing in at about 9 kilos and consuming as much power as a small Hebridean Island it has served its masters well until its final, exasperated, pop and the emission of a tiny puff of smoke. A new flat screen is sitting now in the vast acreage that was previously occupied by the monitor, and the smiling face of the elf as she now has more room to move! Does anybody even make CRT devices or have they gone the same way as the Video Recorder and the 8-track?
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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I haven't seen any for a while now, but I believe they are used, especially where colour representation is important. I might be out of date, but the last I heard, CRT gives superior colour rendition than LCD or OLED. So photographers, animators, film and video production etc may have a niche market for them.
I Dream of Absolute Zero
I use an old Trinitron CRT (picked up for $5 at Goodwill) for photo editing. Never could get reliable color or tonal rendition out of any LCD I own; an expensive IPS type one might fix that problem but expensive isn't an option right now. I also found that the slightly fuzzy pixels cause the CRT to render much more like the final print that an LCD does without causing me eyestrain. Our TVs are all CRT, just because they still work. We're not into TV or movies seriously enough to justify replacing them "just because", in fact we only really use one of them on any sort of regular basis so the other two are likely to stay as CRTs for a very long time. But for programming or anything else involving text, it's LCD all the way. Much easier on the eyes for those tasks.
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That's not true. You can buy colorimters for $100-200 and use the results to make corrections at the OS level before outputting the video. NEC's higher end models can use the same data to reprogram internal lookup tables to improve on OS level corrections; they're preprogrammed at the factory to adjust for variations from one part of the panel to the other. IIRC NEC's licensed their onboard correction tech to at least one 3rd party for a 30" model.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Indeed. You can (and should) color correct an LCD (and should do the same for a CRT anyway) at the OS level if accurate reproduction matters to you. But that's only part of the puzzle. Many LCDs I've encountered are extremely sensitive to viewing position. My laptop has a very obvious gradient from top to bottom at normal viewing distance which shifts dramatically on the smallest movement of your head relative to the screen. It's completely useless for anything where color and tone are even a little bit important. My older LCD monitor has a less-pronounced version of the same problem. The newer displays I have at work are a lot better in this respect but still aren't quite there. These are relatively cheap displays though, the higher end LCDs I'd expect to be much better.
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Or indeed CRT TV's? Is it a dinosaur technology? I ask only because we have finally said goodbye to the last CRT monitor in the company. It was a venerable piece of kit, 16" of glorious colour in a beautiful 'Nicotine Yellow' plastic case. Weighing in at about 9 kilos and consuming as much power as a small Hebridean Island it has served its masters well until its final, exasperated, pop and the emission of a tiny puff of smoke. A new flat screen is sitting now in the vast acreage that was previously occupied by the monitor, and the smiling face of the elf as she now has more room to move! Does anybody even make CRT devices or have they gone the same way as the Video Recorder and the 8-track?
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
Don't remind me. My roommate talked me into buying a 30" CRT monitor to use as the output of our video server. Only 800X600 resolution and weighing in at 130 pounds. It's now in his bedroom, having been replaced by a lighter, larger flat screen. If we ever get rid of it, it will cost us about $65 to recycle it through the city's program.
I'm not a programmer but I play one at the office
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I have about 25 of them in the attic here, only reason I have not hauled them down is its just to much dang work they are heavy as hell.
Common sense is not a gift it's a curse. Those of us who have it have to deal with those that don't.... Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
We have more than 50 in the house, most in the attic. I will never use any other type of screen than CRT. CRTs are still the best put an LCD next to a CRT and the LCD looks brown
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Indeed. You can (and should) color correct an LCD (and should do the same for a CRT anyway) at the OS level if accurate reproduction matters to you. But that's only part of the puzzle. Many LCDs I've encountered are extremely sensitive to viewing position. My laptop has a very obvious gradient from top to bottom at normal viewing distance which shifts dramatically on the smallest movement of your head relative to the screen. It's completely useless for anything where color and tone are even a little bit important. My older LCD monitor has a less-pronounced version of the same problem. The newer displays I have at work are a lot better in this respect but still aren't quite there. These are relatively cheap displays though, the higher end LCDs I'd expect to be much better.
What you're describing is the difference between TN and VA or IPS type panels. TN panels are the cheapest and most energy efficient design; but have ghastly vertical viewing angles. Unfortunately they're used almost universally in laptops and cheaper monitors. Some are better than others though; and what's really frustrating is that one of Anandtech's reviewers recently looked up replacement panel prices for lousy and high quality laptop panels (~3x better contrast ratio and much wider gamut) and found only a $15ish difference. :(( Also, most TNs are only 6bit internally and use dithering to fake 8 bit color depths. VA and IPS panels have much wider viewing angles; the main difference is actually in nearly direct viewing. VA panels suffer from something called black crush where the bottom 5-10% of the grayscale appears the same unless you look at a slight angle. IPS panels don't have that problem; on older designs blacks would take a purple tint at very sharp viewing angles (well beyond the usable range) but AFAIK all current designs have a polarizing filter to stop that from happening. Where VA panels outperform IPS is contrast ratio and maximum brightness levels; IPS is hurt here by needing two transistors/pixel in the panel instead of only one. Most VA and IPS panels are 8 bit designs, although the new cheaper eIPS family are only 6 bit. VA and eIPS panels tend to be about twice as expensive as equivalent TN models, I think eIPS might be a bit cheaper than VA (closer to 2.5-3x the cheapest TNs because VA/IPS panels never go quite as low in crappy stands/etc). Traditional IPS monitors tend to be about 3x an equivalent TNs. Most manufacturers won't identify the panel type directly and some will even switch between VA and IPS in the same model number (panel lottery). You can generally figure out the panel type from stated viewing angles: TN will be 160 or 170*; VA 176*; and IPS 178*. (After customers started complaining most companies doing panel lotteries wrote their specs to the lowest quality panel they switched among.) Most tablets and phones are IPS; but unfortately this hasn't trickled back into laptop LCDs yet.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own be
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Don't remind me. My roommate talked me into buying a 30" CRT monitor to use as the output of our video server. Only 800X600 resolution and weighing in at 130 pounds. It's now in his bedroom, having been replaced by a lighter, larger flat screen. If we ever get rid of it, it will cost us about $65 to recycle it through the city's program.
I'm not a programmer but I play one at the office
Snippet from the below link. "But Dodman said that according to research on the canine brain, with analog television, dogs could only see a flickering screen. New technologies like digital TV, high-definition cameras, and enhanced production have changed the way dogs perceive the images, while big screens allow them to see from anywhere in a room, Neumann said." http://www.10news.com/news/30929438/detail.html[^]
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That's not true. You can buy colorimters for $100-200 and use the results to make corrections at the OS level before outputting the video. NEC's higher end models can use the same data to reprogram internal lookup tables to improve on OS level corrections; they're preprogrammed at the factory to adjust for variations from one part of the panel to the other. IIRC NEC's licensed their onboard correction tech to at least one 3rd party for a 30" model.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
But even with the most accurate LCD technology (VA, IPS etc) the dynamic range of the shutters is such that no LCD of any kind can approach the gamut of a VDU. Period. I regularly adjust both VDU & LCD screens using a colourimeter, but still the LCD looks washed out, and cannot hope to present the more saturated colours, as it is quite simply not able to.