How do you get your first job?
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Stephen Dycus wrote:
I don't understand how someone can work and pay for college.
I did it because I had no choice. Believe it or not, it used to be hard as hell to get student loans and grants. However, the math isn't hard. Full time minimum wage pays $1275 a month. That's $15,300 a year. Where I live, you can rent a university style apartment (really a bed with a shared kitchen) for $260 a month. I feed myself for $250 a month (I don't eat out, set a budget of $3 a day for lunch and cook my dinners.) My older brother lives on $10,000 a year as a writer. He lives in a dump, eats rice and chicken and drives a twenty-year-old car, but is happy. About three years ago, my youngest sister worked full time at a job paying slightly more than minimum wage and got her masters degree without loans or grants. As I stated elsewhere, the full time tuition for a semester at my local university is $2,250 (plus about $350 for books and fees. I know because in January, I paid my youngest son's first semester by selling some McDonalds stock I bought years ago for that very reason. He received a Pell Grant and if he keeps his grades up, he'll be able to pay for the rest of college with those.) My son bought an unlimited discount bus pass from the university for $50 for a full year to take care of transportation. They offer an excellent education in computer science--arguably better than the big shot private university down the road (which I attended for several semesters.) As an FYI, using an inflation calculator I ran the costs of my tuition and living expenses. The university my son is attending is exactly the same as the private religious college down the road was thirty years ago and CHEAPER than where I finished my degree. The cost of living is exactly the same here and MUCH cheaper than where I finished my degree in Los Angeles. Cost of living and schooling are higher than they were thirty years ago, adjusted for inflation, only if you choose them to be. I'll also point out that no matter how bad you think the economy is, it was far worse when I started college--interest rates, unemployment and inflation were all in the double digits.
I spent $400 on rent, $80 on electricity, negligable food cost (packx of 100 frozen disgusting hotdogs from Sams Club, $0.37 Macaroni, etc), internet was included in rent. Also had gas, utilities, etc to pay for. I made about $800 a month working 2 part time jobs as it's hard to get hours. They don't offer full time at most places anymore (typical retail jobs that is). It's easier for them to hire bunch of part time hires than a few full time hires, that way if someone's sick for a shift, they have a large pool for replacements. You can theorize all you want but I lived it. It's tough and I see no realistic way of doing it, at least at your typical 4-year. I have no clue if there are any insanley cheap colleges near me that offer BS in Comp Sci. My two options, the ones that will get me a job when I'm done are: UNC[^] $20k NC State[^] $19k or UNC Charlotte, which I really don't want to return to despite its cheap tuition ($5K).
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
I left school and fucked about eventually working on a help desk for an insurance company. "Can you turn it on and off again please?" It was awful. So I made some small utilities in c for the help desk staff - things like resetting a user's password in 7 systems in one command. When that company was bought by GE I went looking for a c++ job and just called myself a c++ programmer. I got a job at a start-up (this was late '90's so lots of cashed up start ups even in Australia) and it was pretty good. Two years there and I went overseas for a while and worked in Europe. More than 10 years later and I have a great job and I've never set foot in a university.
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I spent $400 on rent, $80 on electricity, negligable food cost (packx of 100 frozen disgusting hotdogs from Sams Club, $0.37 Macaroni, etc), internet was included in rent. Also had gas, utilities, etc to pay for. I made about $800 a month working 2 part time jobs as it's hard to get hours. They don't offer full time at most places anymore (typical retail jobs that is). It's easier for them to hire bunch of part time hires than a few full time hires, that way if someone's sick for a shift, they have a large pool for replacements. You can theorize all you want but I lived it. It's tough and I see no realistic way of doing it, at least at your typical 4-year. I have no clue if there are any insanley cheap colleges near me that offer BS in Comp Sci. My two options, the ones that will get me a job when I'm done are: UNC[^] $20k NC State[^] $19k or UNC Charlotte, which I really don't want to return to despite its cheap tuition ($5K).
Hold it dude, you don't have a monopoly on tough living. At one point early in my marriage, my wife and I had so little money, we lived in crackers and spent what little money we had on baby food. A year before, I was working a temp job in the day and delivering pizzas at night while my wife was pregnant. A year before that, my first son died two weeks before I finished college. So, in all seriousness, don't lecture me about how hard life is. You still don't get it. You don't have two options for education, you have hundreds, if not thousands of options. Your education at UNC isn't going to be better than a decent community college and after your first job nobody will give a shit (and, frankly, nobody will much care before then.) If North Carolina doesn't have any good community colleges. MOVE, wait to establish residency, and finish your degree. (And don't even think of lecturing me on how hard that is. I've moved myself and my family over 800 miles over 10 times, several times with only enough money in pocket to pay for gas and food--the last two were to LA in back when I lost my job in the dot com crash.) You make a big list of excuses how you can't get full time work. Look harder. Move. Go where there are jobs. If you have to take a detour in your life goals, so be it. I took several huge detours, as have several members in this site (there are many for whom programming is a second career, not first.) Instead of sitting around bitching and moaning about how life is unfair, recognize that it's even more unfair than you think and then take control of what you can and that's a lot. Life is hard, but easier than ever in the history of mankind.
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Hold it dude, you don't have a monopoly on tough living. At one point early in my marriage, my wife and I had so little money, we lived in crackers and spent what little money we had on baby food. A year before, I was working a temp job in the day and delivering pizzas at night while my wife was pregnant. A year before that, my first son died two weeks before I finished college. So, in all seriousness, don't lecture me about how hard life is. You still don't get it. You don't have two options for education, you have hundreds, if not thousands of options. Your education at UNC isn't going to be better than a decent community college and after your first job nobody will give a shit (and, frankly, nobody will much care before then.) If North Carolina doesn't have any good community colleges. MOVE, wait to establish residency, and finish your degree. (And don't even think of lecturing me on how hard that is. I've moved myself and my family over 800 miles over 10 times, several times with only enough money in pocket to pay for gas and food--the last two were to LA in back when I lost my job in the dot com crash.) You make a big list of excuses how you can't get full time work. Look harder. Move. Go where there are jobs. If you have to take a detour in your life goals, so be it. I took several huge detours, as have several members in this site (there are many for whom programming is a second career, not first.) Instead of sitting around bitching and moaning about how life is unfair, recognize that it's even more unfair than you think and then take control of what you can and that's a lot. Life is hard, but easier than ever in the history of mankind.
Community Colleges don't offer Bachelor degree programs that I've ever heard of, only certificates and associate degrees (which I am currently doing). <.<; I have yet to see a programming job position request at least an associates degree, just BS and MS. So CC isn't going to be enough. I don't HAVE the money to move to anther state and wait 6 months or however long it takes to establish residency. Just because I list off my hard ships doesn't make this some sort of competition. Life sucks sometimes, I know. The only reason I stated it was because it proved my argument, your story does not back up any argument you have provided; it only comes off strangely "competitive." I have $2 right now. Tell me how I can move and pass a credit check for an apartment despite outstanding rent from Charlotte. Get a part time job, save up / pay off my loans, move across the country, and HOPE life's any better there? I'm 22 with no degree. Where is life going to be any better? Most people in this thread have told me NOT to move to a big city before getting a job there. I AM taking control, you just aren't reading my posts. There's a difference between me bitching and doing nothing vs me bitching because it's not fast enough. I'm GOING to school, I'm PROGRAMMING on my own, I'm APPLYING for jobs, I'm constantly looking to better myself. All I want is a job that pays me to program. That's all this thread was about. I wanted to get ideas from people's stories. But you're taking this as some strange opportunity to lecture me on how if I'm bitching, then I'm not doing enough. You have some strange views on college and economics, I'm just more realistic. I know costs, I've given you the numbers. If you choose to ignore them and stick with your own warped perceptions then there's nothing I can do. : /
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Community Colleges don't offer Bachelor degree programs that I've ever heard of, only certificates and associate degrees (which I am currently doing). <.<; I have yet to see a programming job position request at least an associates degree, just BS and MS. So CC isn't going to be enough. I don't HAVE the money to move to anther state and wait 6 months or however long it takes to establish residency. Just because I list off my hard ships doesn't make this some sort of competition. Life sucks sometimes, I know. The only reason I stated it was because it proved my argument, your story does not back up any argument you have provided; it only comes off strangely "competitive." I have $2 right now. Tell me how I can move and pass a credit check for an apartment despite outstanding rent from Charlotte. Get a part time job, save up / pay off my loans, move across the country, and HOPE life's any better there? I'm 22 with no degree. Where is life going to be any better? Most people in this thread have told me NOT to move to a big city before getting a job there. I AM taking control, you just aren't reading my posts. There's a difference between me bitching and doing nothing vs me bitching because it's not fast enough. I'm GOING to school, I'm PROGRAMMING on my own, I'm APPLYING for jobs, I'm constantly looking to better myself. All I want is a job that pays me to program. That's all this thread was about. I wanted to get ideas from people's stories. But you're taking this as some strange opportunity to lecture me on how if I'm bitching, then I'm not doing enough. You have some strange views on college and economics, I'm just more realistic. I know costs, I've given you the numbers. If you choose to ignore them and stick with your own warped perceptions then there's nothing I can do. : /
Stephen Dycus wrote:
I'm 22 with no degree. Where is life going to be any better?
Plenty of places. North Carolina has an unemployment rate of 9.7%, Utah 5.8%, North Dakota 3.0%. Do research. Find out where there are jobs. Do phone interviews. Use your imagination. There are lots of jobs in the North Dakota oil fields. It's hard work, but work. Best Buy may be a horrible place to work, but its a job and would good on your resume. You could join the military, work with computers, do your service, and finish your schooling on the GI bill. You have thousands of choices, but have a rigid set of narrow requirements, such that you must go to UNC. Why? Appalachian State University costs $2,873 a semester and has a CS program. I found that in two seconds.
Stephen Dycus wrote:
You have some strange views on college and economics
What strange views? I gave you hard facts. When adjusted for inflation, the tuition of my youngest son's college is the same as the first college I attended. When adjusted for inflation, an off-campus apartment next to my youngest son's college is that same as an off-campus apartment next to the first college I attended (the former has more amenities, including a microwave, broadband and cable TV.) This isn't made up or warped. It's reality. A full time minimum wage job pays $1,256 a month (not $1,275). That's not warped. That's fact. How is this a strange view on college or economics?
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Stephen Dycus wrote:
I'm 22 with no degree. Where is life going to be any better?
Plenty of places. North Carolina has an unemployment rate of 9.7%, Utah 5.8%, North Dakota 3.0%. Do research. Find out where there are jobs. Do phone interviews. Use your imagination. There are lots of jobs in the North Dakota oil fields. It's hard work, but work. Best Buy may be a horrible place to work, but its a job and would good on your resume. You could join the military, work with computers, do your service, and finish your schooling on the GI bill. You have thousands of choices, but have a rigid set of narrow requirements, such that you must go to UNC. Why? Appalachian State University costs $2,873 a semester and has a CS program. I found that in two seconds.
Stephen Dycus wrote:
You have some strange views on college and economics
What strange views? I gave you hard facts. When adjusted for inflation, the tuition of my youngest son's college is the same as the first college I attended. When adjusted for inflation, an off-campus apartment next to my youngest son's college is that same as an off-campus apartment next to the first college I attended (the former has more amenities, including a microwave, broadband and cable TV.) This isn't made up or warped. It's reality. A full time minimum wage job pays $1,256 a month (not $1,275). That's not warped. That's fact. How is this a strange view on college or economics?
App has a CS degree? (*adds App to his lust of colleges to apply to*)o.o (Though it is known as NC's party school... not sure how the education is there but it warrants some research I suppose. My main concern with choosing a cheaper college is about my opportunities for jobs. UNC's CS program is the best in the state, NC State's being a close second. This is mostly due to them being in the research triangle (NC's IT holy land.) I'm much more likely to find summer internships and jobs upon graduation if I go to one of those. But perhaps this isn't so important.. What's your thoughts on the matter? Strange Views: -Community Colleges provide bachelor degree programs? -Full time jobs are easy to find? -Minimum Wage is 7.50 last time I checked, making a month's salary $1200 BEFORE taxes. -In Charlotte, rent was $650, food was $250 a month for two people, electricity was $120, utilities was $30, Gas was $120 a month. Totaling at $1170. The $1200 full time wage is less than the cost of living after taxes. Best Buy... no thanks. I was interviewed for a Geek squad position, hired into computers, moved to media, and dumped into Car Audio (a section I know NOTHING about) within the span of 2 weeks. I was so pissed off to be tossed around as though the conditions for which I was hired meant nothing. If they aren't going to use my talent, the talent they hired me for, then I have too much self respect to be tossed around like that. They started me selling things I knew nothing about before training me properly saying that I'd pick it up eventually. What do you say to the person that walks into your section asking for help? "Sorry, but I have no clue what you're asking for." As for the military... it's not for me. I'd do it if push came to shove as it's a very respectable career, but I'm not sure I should ever be deemed capable of carrying a weapon. XD
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App has a CS degree? (*adds App to his lust of colleges to apply to*)o.o (Though it is known as NC's party school... not sure how the education is there but it warrants some research I suppose. My main concern with choosing a cheaper college is about my opportunities for jobs. UNC's CS program is the best in the state, NC State's being a close second. This is mostly due to them being in the research triangle (NC's IT holy land.) I'm much more likely to find summer internships and jobs upon graduation if I go to one of those. But perhaps this isn't so important.. What's your thoughts on the matter? Strange Views: -Community Colleges provide bachelor degree programs? -Full time jobs are easy to find? -Minimum Wage is 7.50 last time I checked, making a month's salary $1200 BEFORE taxes. -In Charlotte, rent was $650, food was $250 a month for two people, electricity was $120, utilities was $30, Gas was $120 a month. Totaling at $1170. The $1200 full time wage is less than the cost of living after taxes. Best Buy... no thanks. I was interviewed for a Geek squad position, hired into computers, moved to media, and dumped into Car Audio (a section I know NOTHING about) within the span of 2 weeks. I was so pissed off to be tossed around as though the conditions for which I was hired meant nothing. If they aren't going to use my talent, the talent they hired me for, then I have too much self respect to be tossed around like that. They started me selling things I knew nothing about before training me properly saying that I'd pick it up eventually. What do you say to the person that walks into your section asking for help? "Sorry, but I have no clue what you're asking for." As for the military... it's not for me. I'd do it if push came to shove as it's a very respectable career, but I'm not sure I should ever be deemed capable of carrying a weapon. XD
Stephen Dycus wrote:
I'm much more likely to find summer internships and jobs upon graduation if I go to one of those.
Did you go to UNC and ask to see the placement statistics? What college you go to rarely matters, especially after your first job. Sometimes, you are better off going to a smaller college and excelling rather than going to a larger one and disappearing. I personally have never eliminated a resume because of the applicant's education or lack thereof. I've never had a manager or team lead who has done so, though I have had HR departments do so (which is why it's always best to get your resume directly to the hiring manager if possible.)
Stephen Dycus wrote:
Community Colleges provide bachelor degree programs?
After doing some research, it appears that North Carolina's community college system offers only associates degrees. This seems to be common with many eastern states. Here in the west, many community colleges offer bachelor degrees. I erred in generalizing my experience in the west to a general experience across the US. I should also have been more clear that the phrase "local colleges and universities" meant those which had open enrollment (or something similar) much lower tuition and which often, at least here in the west, were once community colleges. Again, I erred in assuming this was typical.
Stephen Dycus wrote:
-Full time jobs are easy to find?
Didn't say that. It takes work to find a job, you have to be aggressive and you may have to accept something that is dirty, hard and/or with a horrible boss, but the jobs are out there. Quite often, the people that get these jobs did more than simply fill out an application. They built a relationship with a hiring manager. However, if you are going to make a list of jobs, or categories of jobs, you won't take, of course you'll have issues finding work.
Stephen Dycus wrote:
Minimum Wage is 7.50 last time I checked, making a month's salary $1200 BEFORE taxes.
Federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour (some states set it higher.) $1256 a month for a single person is livable. Your own previous numbers support this. (You won't pay very much taxes at $1256 a month.)
Stephen Dycus wrote:
-In Charlotte, rent was $650, food was $250 a month for two people
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Stephen Dycus wrote:
I'm much more likely to find summer internships and jobs upon graduation if I go to one of those.
Did you go to UNC and ask to see the placement statistics? What college you go to rarely matters, especially after your first job. Sometimes, you are better off going to a smaller college and excelling rather than going to a larger one and disappearing. I personally have never eliminated a resume because of the applicant's education or lack thereof. I've never had a manager or team lead who has done so, though I have had HR departments do so (which is why it's always best to get your resume directly to the hiring manager if possible.)
Stephen Dycus wrote:
Community Colleges provide bachelor degree programs?
After doing some research, it appears that North Carolina's community college system offers only associates degrees. This seems to be common with many eastern states. Here in the west, many community colleges offer bachelor degrees. I erred in generalizing my experience in the west to a general experience across the US. I should also have been more clear that the phrase "local colleges and universities" meant those which had open enrollment (or something similar) much lower tuition and which often, at least here in the west, were once community colleges. Again, I erred in assuming this was typical.
Stephen Dycus wrote:
-Full time jobs are easy to find?
Didn't say that. It takes work to find a job, you have to be aggressive and you may have to accept something that is dirty, hard and/or with a horrible boss, but the jobs are out there. Quite often, the people that get these jobs did more than simply fill out an application. They built a relationship with a hiring manager. However, if you are going to make a list of jobs, or categories of jobs, you won't take, of course you'll have issues finding work.
Stephen Dycus wrote:
Minimum Wage is 7.50 last time I checked, making a month's salary $1200 BEFORE taxes.
Federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour (some states set it higher.) $1256 a month for a single person is livable. Your own previous numbers support this. (You won't pay very much taxes at $1256 a month.)
Stephen Dycus wrote:
-In Charlotte, rent was $650, food was $250 a month for two people
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Did you go to UNC and ask to see the placement statistics?
It's more about location than what the college itself can do about getting me a job.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
You can spend less than every number you listed and (and earlier gave lower numbers.)
I was giving you the full cost this time, not what I payed. I split all those numbers three ways last time (other than food) but this time I'll be responsible for all of the rent. That's why the numbers are different. Why is your full time wage hire than mine?$7.25 at 40 hours a week (full time) 4 weeks a month == $1160. Again, before taxes.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
You may be hired as a Java programmer and then told to edit and fix hundreds of batch file install scripts.
It's still related at least. Fixing computers is not related to selling car speakers. It's like if you were hired as a programmer and they made you the secretary instead (no offense to secretaries, it's just an example).
Joe Woodbury wrote:
ncidentally, one great place to look for work, that people often overlook, is your state employment agency.
I check there every now and then. My mom is a state employee so she typically keeps an eye out for jobs in the network.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
There are technical jobs in the military.
I'd join the military if I could be guaranteed I'd see no combat, but that's just not going to happen. (The promise, not the likeliness of it happening.)
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I figured you knew that - however, anyone outside the UK/inside the UK but too young to remember, would need extra guidance; hence my putting his name in, and saying that PV didn't have much of a sense of humour.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
What amazed me is that the Vardy dealership chain sold everything from Aston Martin down to cheap pre-registered Fiats... Usually [edit: your average dealer] would use a different dealership name so that one brand didn't tarnish the image of the other. I heard a rumour that the Vardys funded a local school which was in the anti-evolution / pro-intelligent-design mould, too?
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
I did a four year "thick sandwich" degree (in Electronic & Electrical Engineering), and the 3rd year was working out in industry. They liked me enough to grant me a small bursary in my final year, and offer me a job when I graduated. A year after that they even got around to asking me what degree I got. Programming is all about passion, and you need to keep feeding the fire. If you're stuck in a rut, there are always other people you can connect with and learn from. Whether by books, community, pet or OSS projects doesn't matter - just please endeavour to keep learning (not just about code - stuff like team management, business patterns etc. is important too) and keep bettering yourself. Ultimately it is that passion that drives the best of us - many organisations are frankly crap to work at, and that can be dispiriting at times. However, no matter how crap the environment is, I've learnt that you can make something positive out of it (one of the most stressful projects I've ever worked on is the one that truly kicked my software career into a higher gear). So don't give up, don't stop learning and don't be afraid to think outside the box. Good luck!
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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*shrug* Guess so. It's better than being a troll. ^^
You must admire the irony of being lambasted to work harder by someone whose username is...
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Fair comment but not everyone goes down the degree path and I wouldn't exclude someone simply because of that.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
While true, most technology companies require a degree, even if it's not directly relevant to the work you'll be doing. It is pre-screening for HR in a lot of places; as one of our senior staff said, without my degree my CV would have taken seconds to process, even though it's in geology and not in a computing subject. Completing a degree with a decent grade will open up a chance in the kind of job the OP seems to be looking for.
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
This won't help you at all but I used pre-existing contacts through my family and the APL programming community to get mine. (That job wasn't all that great for me, though it's a good company in general, but that's another story.) You really need that degree, though. Just knuckle down and complete a course. A very large majority of tech companies will require one.
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
You need to think outside the box. Before you can specialize, you may need to generalize. Instead of working towards a programming position, look for something that can lead to a programming position. Consider getting a job doing web content management, pc hardware repair at a company that also has software developers, etc. The contacts you make and the experience you gain could help you land a programming job.
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
I was in a technical school taking up Data Processing (that is what it was called back then). There was an opening for a computer operator. IBM System 3 model 15d, for those old folks. The teacher reccomended another student for the job. The manager hired me. When I went back and told the teacher I got the job, he said, gee, I told him to hire Matt. That was back in 1980. I have been working on IBM mid-range computers ever since, now programming mostly in RPG (not Role Playing Games, but Report Program Generator). Our language uses indicators, which used to be lights you could see on the computer when they were turned off and on.
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
I'm going to weigh in on this one. I would still look at a programmer even if he didn't have a degree, but he better be good. In a way, you are somewhat like me. I spent a few years in the Army before I went to college. I was an adult student in a room full of 18 year-olds, and it was odd, but it gave me certain advantages. I after staying up all night running ambush patrols, staying up all night to finish a FIFO parking lot programming problem was easy. I don't know where you are in the country, but it certainly sounds like you are somewhere in the middle of nowhere. My suggestions would be this: #1. Leave wherever you are and go to North Dakota. Get a job as a roustabout on a natural gas drilling crew. Work for two years. Save your money and go back to college. If I was your age and had no family, no connections, and little education, I would be in North Dakota working on a drilling crew. The unemployment rate in that part of the country is around 3%. #2. Join the Army. Specifically look for MOS 25B which is basically a Network Admin. You'll learn a trade related to your field and get out with money and a shot at a college education. #3. Consider moving to the Philadelphia area and look for a job in The King of Prussia area. It seems like companies are always hiring junior programmers in the Philadelphia area. California is an option, but you won't be able to find housing. Don't fret about being too old. It took me 8 years to get my bachelors and 5 to get my masters, I finally hit my stride at 35. Now I manage a team of programmers. In all honesty, the best choice you may have is the Army. I don't think I would be where I am today without the discipline I learned as an Infantryman. Best of Luck. Quick edit. I never answered how I got my first job. Well, a buddy from the Army knew someone who was hiring a webmaster. I knew web programming and Perl and they hired me on my buddy's recommendation even though I didn't have a degree - basically they knew an Army guy would show up and work which was more than they could say for any other young programmer. Ryan
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
A small potted history of my career... Was writing code for educational software at Grammer school (in the UK) whilst still at the school (12-17 years old - 7 unremarkable O-levels) Flunked my first go at A-Levels (17 years old), went to college and got the A-levels (18 years old). I don't know what the difference between US and UK education standards were, but it doesn't matter). Went to Uni for BSc in Computer stuff - realized the course was not what I wanted from life (only took 2 years to figure - but I got educational experience - see below). Spend a year looking for ideal work whilst working in bookshops and such dead-end stuff. Spoke with a friends brother, was hired on a pitiful salary (they had to pay my travel from Mums to work..). The poor pay only lasted until I proved myself, then got a realistic wage for experience. Have spent the last 20 years gaining more experience (you can NEVER have enough experience). Many of my peers do not have Uni degrees, but lots of base experience... In summary - it's not what you know, it's who you know (or how long you've used what you know) that matters...
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
Lot of facets here. Yes, most employers demand a degree - the Gates' and Jobs' of the world are rare. Finishing a degree says something. However, I know great software nerds that didn't get a degree. It's a crap shoot. After I graduated [at 26 yrs old, all expenses paid by me] I moved to San Diego, CA - big city, lots of opportunity. Entry level is a bitch ... I worked jobs I didn't like and put resumes out there constantly for nearly a year. Ended up finding a great job [shoulda kept that one, in fact :] Moving was a bitch ... but the opportunity I found turned out to be well worth it. Thus, I would advise: move and expect to put out a lot of resumes. Be glad you're wanting to work in a field with promising opportunity.
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I was in a technical school taking up Data Processing (that is what it was called back then). There was an opening for a computer operator. IBM System 3 model 15d, for those old folks. The teacher reccomended another student for the job. The manager hired me. When I went back and told the teacher I got the job, he said, gee, I told him to hire Matt. That was back in 1980. I have been working on IBM mid-range computers ever since, now programming mostly in RPG (not Role Playing Games, but Report Program Generator). Our language uses indicators, which used to be lights you could see on the computer when they were turned off and on.
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What amazed me is that the Vardy dealership chain sold everything from Aston Martin down to cheap pre-registered Fiats... Usually [edit: your average dealer] would use a different dealership name so that one brand didn't tarnish the image of the other. I heard a rumour that the Vardys funded a local school which was in the anti-evolution / pro-intelligent-design mould, too?
While he's backing academies, from what I've read they aren't really creationist.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
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