How do you get your first job?
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Decide how you want your future to be. Map it out on paper. Since you are focusing on career spend a day or two with how you want your work day to be like. What do you want to be working on? Small or big company? Where do you want to move to? What are your other interests outside of work? A big city would be a fun move for you and get you a lot of life experience. You can join lots of groups in all interest areas. Keep this vision handy so each and every day you have to study and take tests you know you are one step closer to your future self. I suggest to continue working and get that degree no matter the cost! It's a pain in the ass sometimes I know (I have a B.S. and M.S. and I nearly had a nervous breakdown with the M.S. as I am not good with academics but I work really hard, and I stuck it out and graduated.) Once you get that degree it's DONE. A degree takes you places and gets you in the door. Without a degree you are a step behind (regardless of others without a degree have made it). There are exceptions. I recall a web post where someone complained that it will take FOUR YEARS to get a degree. The person replies, How old will you be in four years without the degree? 26. How old will you be in four years WITH the degree? 26. Slow and steady wins the race. You can see and do many more things with cash from solid employment. Keep the goal in mind so you can get through each and every day. Keep your face to the sun and you will not see the shadow. P.S. I forgot to also recommend internships as others stated about. Make this a priority! Internships will gain you valuable experience. Study, take breaks, get the best grades you can, write code that people can download and use so you can build a nice resume over time.
Wow, this was great advice. This is something I could see working for me. I'll certainly try it out. Getting a programming job is my immediate goal but I certainly have more milestone-like dreams that I could physically map out for motivation. Thank you very much. ^^
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
I just kept applying for jobs and also its important to make contacts that could have some work in the future. I was a systems administrator who was also doing some programming work for my first IT job and now I’m a full time developer. Keep your head up there is plenty of work for programmers and especially good programmers.
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
Buckle down and finish school. That's my advice. That being said, I got my first job with pure personality. I didn't know anyone in industry. I hadn't done any internships. I didn't have great grades. I graduated in Dec '02. It was an awful time to try to find work. I attended some job fairs at the college. I was very passionate about my interest in improving my development skills. I was also passionate about computer security in particular. There was a computer security firm at the job fair and I talked to them at length and I attempted to portray myself as very eager to learn and very very interested in what they were doing. Both of these things were true, but being somewhat introverted, I had to go out of my way to get that point across :) I learned a couple years later, that they'd decided to hire me during that job fair based purely on my passion and personalty. As long as I didn't f up the interview I'd be in, and although I failed parts of the interview (including the coding part, because I didn't know Java at the time), I still got the job. I felt very lucky, and looking back, I realize I was indeed very lucky. However, I do think that passion and personality go a long way. Best of luck, and finish school man. -Marshall
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
I got my first job by starting up my own company with a friend from University. In other words: I made it myself.
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Stephen Dycus wrote:
Why is your full time wage hire than mine?$7.25 at 40 hours a week (full time) 4 weeks a month == $1160
(7.25 x 40 x 52) / 12
Stephen Dycus wrote:
Fixing computers is not related to selling car speakers. It's like if you were hired as a programmer and they made you the secretary instead
Yes, and this will happen in your career. I can't count the times I've heard, or uttered, the phrase "I wasn't hired to do this." Usually followed by an expletive. If you have to pay your bills you suck it up and do the job and chalk it up to experience. At one job, I was suddenly assigned to produce some marketing materials. At another job, I was put in charge of maintaining some equipment barely related to my job. Sometimes this leads to finding out you like doing something else. I had a technical writer who ended up writing for the usability team. She started helping with some testing, found she liked it and was very good at it, worked a while in usability at a very well known company and is now a product manager at that company. I'll bet if you ask the question here on CP, you'd find every developer at one time got assign some crap task way outside their field.
I'm not avoiding replying due to any anger towards you, I just don't know where else to take the conversation. Just didn't want you thinking I got fed up with you or anything, you were very cordial when conveying your point. ^^
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I'm not avoiding replying due to any anger towards you, I just don't know where else to take the conversation. Just didn't want you thinking I got fed up with you or anything, you were very cordial when conveying your point. ^^
Ah, it just ran its course. I do hope the best for you. I think you have some good experience on your resume and a passion that is good, even if it can be frustrating.
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
Forget what everyone is telling you.. Work harder? Seriously? M8, I dont think you're a whiner. Your young and trying to make choices now that effect the rest of your life. The same thing software developers do everyday while they are writing their code. Work harder. Don't bother. Degree? Who cares. Grab the next copy of the rich list for whatever country you are in. Go through the top 20, top 100. Then list how many of those people have degrees, how many of them have worked hard.. Then list how many people dont have degrees and havent worked hard but have been smart enough to take advantage of the work of others. I think you will find list 2 bigger than list 1. At the end of the day, you have to decide whats important to you. What floats your boat? What is your measure of success? Money? Family? Pride? If you want a job in Seattle, take the risk, save the money and go. Without risk there is no reward. Am I a troll? lol.. Probably. I'm a software developer with some free trolling time on my hands. I have not finished high school, I dont have a degree. I have been developing for some years. I never worked hard and now as a result of having never worked hard, I have been rewarded well and dont have to work at all, so I code when i feel like it and troll in between. I was watching the 3 amigos when I was a kid (i hear you say, what is he crapping on about now).. The Mexican (i think he was Mexican, no offence intended) guy says, "if you want the woman, you just take the woman". I wouldn't suggest you go picking out the women you want and taking them, but apply that to the rest of your life. If you want it, take it.. nobody is going to hand it to you. Forget the guarantees, there are none in life. Grab hold of ya nuts and get out there.. If you fall down, who cares, we all do.. Get up and go again.. Dont live in your head wondering what if... just do it. Troll rant over..
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
Here's a short description of my situation. I hope it will inspire you or give you perspective. I am a internal auditor, got a BCom degree and 10 years experience in the field. In two months I will be transferred to the programming department as a junior web developer. My passion is programming but I never got serious about it until about two years ago. I decided to do whatever it takes to get into the market and I accepted that I would have to start at the bottom. I decided not to enroll for a BSc degree as I am recetly married and have a wife and kids to love, so time and funds are short. I enrolled at a training facility that presents short, focused courses in the evenings. My next course is a MCPD Web Developer preparation course. My plan is to learn the basics and what I need to cope in my job, and then focus on the certifications. I had to sell one of my motorcycles to pay for the course, the rest I save by not taking coastal holidays nor buying shiny stuff. I constantly read to expand my view. Recently I read a book about design patterns. Currently I am busy with T-SQL. I get up at 4:30 to study an hour before work, then an hour after the kids are in bed. I realise it will take time to get my skills up, but I could have been here five years ago if I made the decision then and didn't fall into a rut. I am now 34 years young :) As for one's view on life, Dr. Paul's book, Mind OS helped a lot. I recommend that while you are still young and life is relatively uncomplicated to sort out any character issues, practice integrity, deal with laziness and know and love yourself. It will make a huge difference in everything you do. So how did I get the job? I trained and enhanced my skills slowly. My employer saw my non-programming talents such as attention to detail, assessing systems in a practical and methodical manner, hard-working, analytical skills whilst I was involved in SDLC testing. Don't give up. Don't lose momentum. Find out what qualifications prospective employers require and work towards it, even if it takes time. Consider working at a prospective employer part-time for free. It will give you experience and you will start to get noticed.
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
To answer your original question (and avoid the flame war :P ). I got my first (real coding) job through a combination of natural ability and dumb luck :P I had a chance to work at a company that were willing to take a chance on me, so I ditched my degree and jumped. I've learnt more in the last 5 years through experience than I ever did throughout my education. I suppose having the pressure of being fired is more incentive than someone threatening detention :P It's a sad state of affairs but as most companies can't identify real talent they have to rely on pieces of paper to do that for them. P.S. In hind sight I wish I had the degree so I wouldn't have to prove myself to other people/companies all the time. Although it is nice to see the surprised look on their faces when I'm compared to a graduate :P
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Two Bad Years: I got stressed out trying to keep an apartment my first year at a university so I flunked out (aced Java at least lol). Then the next year I wasted a year of my life working two part time jobs trying to keep the apartment but eventually was evicted. Don't really understand why you quoted the rest... I don't have an associates degree but I have far more experience than the guys that do. (like the one's I tutor at my current community college). I've almost finished my android 2D engine while the students here are still struggling on OOP concepts. : / I *don't* know if I can make it three more years. I suppose the two years earning my bachelors degree will be fun. I'd love to take an algorithms class or an ASM class. But I'm not looking forward to finishing up my fluff classes to get to that point. I AM bored with my life. I feel stuck. I don't have a job, I live with my mom, and frankly I feel pathetic. I'm ready to grow up and move on to the next stage of my life... Question still stands.
Stephen Dycus wrote:
I've almost finished my android 2D engine while the students here are still struggling on OOP concepts.
I think *that* is the most telling bit of info you've provided so far. My guess is that you have trouble going through with college because it doesn't (seem to) help you get any better, but you feel a need to finish it so you get a degree, and thus a better chance for a job. Now I cannot possibly judge if your college really is going to help or hinder you with your future career. Also I'm based in Western Europe and not really familiar with the US education system. But my guess (and advice) is that you should talk to your tutors/teachers and ask them for advice. Even if they can't directly answer your question they might be able to point you to someone who can. It's entirely possible that it turns out you must get through this, but at the very least, after talking to someone in the know, you may have a better understanding of why this is necessary, and what to look out for. But it's also possible they can point you to another line of education that is better suited to your needs and wishes. Of course, if nothing helps, you can try and look for work. There are plenty of companies who don't care all that much about formal education as long as you're young, enthusiastic (about programming) and probably cheap (compared to those with a degree). You'll have to look a bit farther for that, though: I understand that while in germany it isn't so hard to get a job within a range of 50km around your hometown, distances can be much farther in the US. Best advice I can give is to look in one specific big town for several job occasions and try to get interview dates all on the same or consecutive days, so you can make just one big 'interview tour' rather than many seperate ones. What I did for my first jobs was 1. check on current job offerings, even if they're not quite what i was looking for, 2. check on big companies within an area, even if they don't currently offer any jobs publicly (some may consider hirings even if they didn't advertise an opening), 3. phoned these companies to find out if they may be interested in me and if I should send them my CV (or whatever they wanted) 4. sent whatever papers to the companies that showed interest and waited for invites to an interview 5. went to whoever invited me to an interview On my first job, I phoned 16 companies, sent papers to 8, got invites to 4, and, finally, job o
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Stephen Dycus wrote:
I've almost finished my android 2D engine while the students here are still struggling on OOP concepts.
I think *that* is the most telling bit of info you've provided so far. My guess is that you have trouble going through with college because it doesn't (seem to) help you get any better, but you feel a need to finish it so you get a degree, and thus a better chance for a job. Now I cannot possibly judge if your college really is going to help or hinder you with your future career. Also I'm based in Western Europe and not really familiar with the US education system. But my guess (and advice) is that you should talk to your tutors/teachers and ask them for advice. Even if they can't directly answer your question they might be able to point you to someone who can. It's entirely possible that it turns out you must get through this, but at the very least, after talking to someone in the know, you may have a better understanding of why this is necessary, and what to look out for. But it's also possible they can point you to another line of education that is better suited to your needs and wishes. Of course, if nothing helps, you can try and look for work. There are plenty of companies who don't care all that much about formal education as long as you're young, enthusiastic (about programming) and probably cheap (compared to those with a degree). You'll have to look a bit farther for that, though: I understand that while in germany it isn't so hard to get a job within a range of 50km around your hometown, distances can be much farther in the US. Best advice I can give is to look in one specific big town for several job occasions and try to get interview dates all on the same or consecutive days, so you can make just one big 'interview tour' rather than many seperate ones. What I did for my first jobs was 1. check on current job offerings, even if they're not quite what i was looking for, 2. check on big companies within an area, even if they don't currently offer any jobs publicly (some may consider hirings even if they didn't advertise an opening), 3. phoned these companies to find out if they may be interested in me and if I should send them my CV (or whatever they wanted) 4. sent whatever papers to the companies that showed interest and waited for invites to an interview 5. went to whoever invited me to an interview On my first job, I phoned 16 companies, sent papers to 8, got invites to 4, and, finally, job o
Stefan_Lang wrote:
My guess is that you have trouble going through with college because it doesn't (seem to) help you get any better, but you feel a need to finish it so you get a degree, and thus a better chance for a job.
I'd say that's a fair assessment. But only when it comes to computer science. I fully understand how the fluff classes can open your mind to new ways of thinking. I often enjoy them even. (I'm definitely looking forward to calc based physics next semester.) But the computer Science department here at my community college isn't all that great.(In the US a community college is like a University but much cheaper, $900 vs $5-20k, and, in my state at least, only offers a 2 year degree.) I often get told by the students I tudor that I should be the one teaching their class. (This isn't me being arrogant, just showing you the quality of their teaching.) I see my friend's graduating with their associates degrees while I still have a year to go. They know nothing when it comes to programming. They can't pseudocode a simple class on paper and they don't have any drive to program outside of class. But a company is going to give them a chance because of their peice of paper while I'm miles ahead of them in experience and passion. I guess I worry about how well my abilities are to show that to people. I can talk freely on the internet but in person I'm pretty introverted.
Stefan_Lang wrote:
check on big companies within an area, even if they don't currently offer any jobs publicly (some may consider hirings even if they didn't advertise an opening),
I could do that, but one question... who needs programmers? Some of them are obvious but some are not. I recently sent in a resume to a furniture company for a VBA/Excel job. I would never have thought to apply there had there not been a job posting.
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Stefan_Lang wrote:
My guess is that you have trouble going through with college because it doesn't (seem to) help you get any better, but you feel a need to finish it so you get a degree, and thus a better chance for a job.
I'd say that's a fair assessment. But only when it comes to computer science. I fully understand how the fluff classes can open your mind to new ways of thinking. I often enjoy them even. (I'm definitely looking forward to calc based physics next semester.) But the computer Science department here at my community college isn't all that great.(In the US a community college is like a University but much cheaper, $900 vs $5-20k, and, in my state at least, only offers a 2 year degree.) I often get told by the students I tudor that I should be the one teaching their class. (This isn't me being arrogant, just showing you the quality of their teaching.) I see my friend's graduating with their associates degrees while I still have a year to go. They know nothing when it comes to programming. They can't pseudocode a simple class on paper and they don't have any drive to program outside of class. But a company is going to give them a chance because of their peice of paper while I'm miles ahead of them in experience and passion. I guess I worry about how well my abilities are to show that to people. I can talk freely on the internet but in person I'm pretty introverted.
Stefan_Lang wrote:
check on big companies within an area, even if they don't currently offer any jobs publicly (some may consider hirings even if they didn't advertise an opening),
I could do that, but one question... who needs programmers? Some of them are obvious but some are not. I recently sent in a resume to a furniture company for a VBA/Excel job. I would never have thought to apply there had there not been a job posting.
Judging by what you write you seem to enjoy programming, even in your spare time, and that's a good thing. Use it! As others pointed out, you won't have an easy time getting a job, but if you can point people to some web site hosting a project you developed, that tells a potential employer a lot more about you than any degree can! If you don't yet have such a project (that is in a reasonable state for that purpose), consider doing one. It doesn't matter what it's about, as long as it's working and doing what you intended it to. Being able to make it available to others via the web is a plus, too. As for what companies to check ... Obviously the software companies need programmers. Well you probably knew that ;) . From the top of my head there's also a high demand for programmers in any of the following areas: insurances, banking, demographic institutes, anything involving lots of physics (so pretty much any engeneering type of company), mobile or other TelCom stuff, anything with a heavy focus on web (e. g. Amazon and other E-companies). Beyond that pretty much any mid to large sized company (1000 and more people) employs at least some programmers for internal stuff - but I'm not sure that is the best place to start, and it might not be easy to get in either, because most likely the people you'll speak to know little about programming and therefore will rely on those 'pieces of paper' rather than your qualification...
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
A degree never got me anywhere. Don't stress if your school progression isn't successful, make good professional choices thogh. I'm from a town with few or no IT jobs and what I had to do was get out! Right now I'm prepared to get out again, now from the country it self. My main message here is: Don't get tied to things that won't get you anywhere. If you think you're meant to be a professional developer, fight for here, be prepared to leave some things you love behind to be able to run after new ones. This applies to everything in life, if you really want it, fight hard for it. But fight hard!
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To answer your original question (and avoid the flame war :P ). I got my first (real coding) job through a combination of natural ability and dumb luck :P I had a chance to work at a company that were willing to take a chance on me, so I ditched my degree and jumped. I've learnt more in the last 5 years through experience than I ever did throughout my education. I suppose having the pressure of being fired is more incentive than someone threatening detention :P It's a sad state of affairs but as most companies can't identify real talent they have to rely on pieces of paper to do that for them. P.S. In hind sight I wish I had the degree so I wouldn't have to prove myself to other people/companies all the time. Although it is nice to see the surprised look on their faces when I'm compared to a graduate :P
After 10 years of professional experience on my CV and a pretty good connection list I don't miss a degree. Much like you I left school to start working, much because I felt I was wasting time there. Also like you I felt that I learned a lot more at work than at school so it was a good decision. I still think that 3 to 5 years is too much time just to get a piece of paper. It's good to have one but I think the best choice is to take it after work as a complement to your professional experience.