How long at a place of employment?
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So, someone's comment to the post for resume advice below got me thinking. If you are looking to hire an experienced professional, what red flags do you look for when looking at number of companies, length of time at their previous employers, who the employers were, etc. Also, if a person was with a company for an 'extended' period, does a career progression change how you view that stay? As for my IT career: 3 years First company 2 years Second Company 14 years 3rd, 4th, 5th due to mergers/acquisitions 1 year current company
I would say if the intervals were short, I would want more information. However, these days, it just doesn't matter. Red flags for me would be no references from past companies ;)
Charlie Gilley You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house. "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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So, someone's comment to the post for resume advice below got me thinking. If you are looking to hire an experienced professional, what red flags do you look for when looking at number of companies, length of time at their previous employers, who the employers were, etc. Also, if a person was with a company for an 'extended' period, does a career progression change how you view that stay? As for my IT career: 3 years First company 2 years Second Company 14 years 3rd, 4th, 5th due to mergers/acquisitions 1 year current company
I only get leery when the number of jobs > than total years experience. Averaging less than a year per job consistently over a career might mean underperformer, difficult to work with, bored easily, or selfishly ambitious (promotion / raises sought by new job instead of at current job.) A simple reference check can probably determine what was going on there. I know past managers, and even my current boss, shy's away from people with 10-20 years experience in only in one company (I don't think that's a negative necessarily myself).
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So, someone's comment to the post for resume advice below got me thinking. If you are looking to hire an experienced professional, what red flags do you look for when looking at number of companies, length of time at their previous employers, who the employers were, etc. Also, if a person was with a company for an 'extended' period, does a career progression change how you view that stay? As for my IT career: 3 years First company 2 years Second Company 14 years 3rd, 4th, 5th due to mergers/acquisitions 1 year current company
If the person has been contracting I would want to see at least one extension and at least 1 year per contract. The odd shorter one is okay as long as there are more longer contracts. Similar with permies: want to see some longevity with each role and some career progression when they move to another company. Less than a year does not look good; 2 years or more is better.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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If the person has been contracting I would want to see at least one extension and at least 1 year per contract. The odd shorter one is okay as long as there are more longer contracts. Similar with permies: want to see some longevity with each role and some career progression when they move to another company. Less than a year does not look good; 2 years or more is better.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I only get leery when the number of jobs > than total years experience. Averaging less than a year per job consistently over a career might mean underperformer, difficult to work with, bored easily, or selfishly ambitious (promotion / raises sought by new job instead of at current job.) A simple reference check can probably determine what was going on there. I know past managers, and even my current boss, shy's away from people with 10-20 years experience in only in one company (I don't think that's a negative necessarily myself).
wizardzz wrote:
I know past managers, and even my current boss, shy's away from people with 10-20 years experience in only in one company (I don't think that's a negative necessarily myself).
Base on my experience it can be a big negative indeed. Your managers are right to avoid such people. If the person have started his/her carrier in a big company after 15-20 years the poor soil is fully institutionalized. They know only their company’s tools, frameworks etc. I interviewed a lady who had 20 years of experience in C++. I had a great expectations but it turned into a disaster. She had no idea how bitwise operators work, no MFC (or any common framework in that extend, .Net included), no real understanding of OOP, pointers, SQL (the whole thing) and etc., etc, etc. It was embarrassing! :|
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Yikes, Miss Wiz just picked up a 2 week contract. I feel like web dev contracts tend to be shorter though.
mark merrens wrote:
and at least 1 year per contract.
Did you mean the opposite?
wizardzz wrote:
I feel like web dev contracts tend to be shorter though.
Ah, yes, I was talking about proper developers. :-)
wizardzz wrote:
Did you mean the opposite?
No: most contracts start with 3 or 6 months. I like to see at least 1 year at that contract with at least 1 extension in there. Is that what you meant?
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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wizardzz wrote:
I feel like web dev contracts tend to be shorter though.
Ah, yes, I was talking about proper developers. :-)
wizardzz wrote:
Did you mean the opposite?
No: most contracts start with 3 or 6 months. I like to see at least 1 year at that contract with at least 1 extension in there. Is that what you meant?
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I guess I didn't think contracts went that long, though I've never contracted myself. What if the project is completed in 6 months with no extension, then they'd be fast workers, right?
wizardzz wrote:
What if the project is completed in 6 months with no extension, then they'd be fast workers, right?
Good one. But seriously, many companies will only deal in 3 or 6 month terms for budgetary reasons. I'm currently at a 3-month cycle company, on my second renewal. In the past I was at a place that dealt with 6 months at a time. Hired for 6, project scope cut and all contractors released after 3 months (for me.) Cuts were too deep so I was hired back, brown stuff hit the spinning blades and again all contractors and huge number of regular employees were let go. You just never know in the contracting world.
BDF I often make very large prints from unexposed film, and every one of them turns out to be a picture of myself as I once dreamed I would be. -- BillWoodruff
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So, someone's comment to the post for resume advice below got me thinking. If you are looking to hire an experienced professional, what red flags do you look for when looking at number of companies, length of time at their previous employers, who the employers were, etc. Also, if a person was with a company for an 'extended' period, does a career progression change how you view that stay? As for my IT career: 3 years First company 2 years Second Company 14 years 3rd, 4th, 5th due to mergers/acquisitions 1 year current company
drolfson wrote:
If you are looking to hire an experienced professional
Use Google, these days an experienced professional often engage with other professionals on the internet. If you can't find anything, I'd say that deserves your attention. There are mailing lists, sites like CP, linkedIn, and others. If you get a couple of thousand hits - that should tell you a lot about the person. Is he/she generous, polite and helpful; or arrogant, spiteful and a regular troll.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS My LinkedIn Profile
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wizardzz wrote:
I know past managers, and even my current boss, shy's away from people with 10-20 years experience in only in one company (I don't think that's a negative necessarily myself).
Base on my experience it can be a big negative indeed. Your managers are right to avoid such people. If the person have started his/her carrier in a big company after 15-20 years the poor soil is fully institutionalized. They know only their company’s tools, frameworks etc. I interviewed a lady who had 20 years of experience in C++. I had a great expectations but it turned into a disaster. She had no idea how bitwise operators work, no MFC (or any common framework in that extend, .Net included), no real understanding of OOP, pointers, SQL (the whole thing) and etc., etc, etc. It was embarrassing! :|
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Base on my experience
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
I interviewed a lady
well then, that's definitive :)
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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drolfson wrote:
If you are looking to hire an experienced professional
Use Google, these days an experienced professional often engage with other professionals on the internet. If you can't find anything, I'd say that deserves your attention. There are mailing lists, sites like CP, linkedIn, and others. If you get a couple of thousand hits - that should tell you a lot about the person. Is he/she generous, polite and helpful; or arrogant, spiteful and a regular troll.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS My LinkedIn Profile
Espen Harlinn wrote:
If you get a couple of thousand hits - that should tell you a lot about the person.
Yep - they spend too much time on the internet and not enough actually working :)
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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drolfson wrote:
If you are looking to hire an experienced professional
Use Google, these days an experienced professional often engage with other professionals on the internet. If you can't find anything, I'd say that deserves your attention. There are mailing lists, sites like CP, linkedIn, and others. If you get a couple of thousand hits - that should tell you a lot about the person. Is he/she generous, polite and helpful; or arrogant, spiteful and a regular troll.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS My LinkedIn Profile
I personally tend to disagree with this one. Better than 80% of my online presence has been via pseudonyms that I have tried quite hard NOT to have tied back to me. This has changed in the past couple of years due to places like Linkedin.com, Facebook, and Google (the great Satan :mad: ) tying things together. If I could, I would go back and tell myself of 5-7 years ago to do some things differently so these tie-ins did not occur. I personally would prefer NOT to be so "Naked in Cyperspace." Don
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I personally tend to disagree with this one. Better than 80% of my online presence has been via pseudonyms that I have tried quite hard NOT to have tied back to me. This has changed in the past couple of years due to places like Linkedin.com, Facebook, and Google (the great Satan :mad: ) tying things together. If I could, I would go back and tell myself of 5-7 years ago to do some things differently so these tie-ins did not occur. I personally would prefer NOT to be so "Naked in Cyperspace." Don
drolfson wrote:
I personally tend to disagree with this one.
I'm only pointing out that if you're hiring somebody it's a good idea to try google.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS My LinkedIn Profile
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I personally tend to disagree with this one. Better than 80% of my online presence has been via pseudonyms that I have tried quite hard NOT to have tied back to me. This has changed in the past couple of years due to places like Linkedin.com, Facebook, and Google (the great Satan :mad: ) tying things together. If I could, I would go back and tell myself of 5-7 years ago to do some things differently so these tie-ins did not occur. I personally would prefer NOT to be so "Naked in Cyperspace." Don
Even if you use your real name it might not matter if it's common. As of a month ago, there are no hits for me among Google's first 70 results for Daniel Neely. Of the three hits that are me in the first 100 none are readily linkable to me (1 each blog comment, question on vendor support forum, and question on distributed computing project message board). None of the major sites I participate in online turned up. Several years ago I had 3 profiles relevant to who I was in the top 10 at one point or another; but between some of my doppelgangers engaging in self-SEO and Google having apparently decided my profiles here, on HardOCP, and on Einstein@Home (the three that used to turn up, with hundreds or thousands of posts each) are less relevant than three where I have only a handful of messages each I've largely became invisible to them. I see no problem with this; if anything I'd be interested in reverse SEO to push my profiles down even farther...:cool:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Even if you use your real name it might not matter if it's common. As of a month ago, there are no hits for me among Google's first 70 results for Daniel Neely. Of the three hits that are me in the first 100 none are readily linkable to me (1 each blog comment, question on vendor support forum, and question on distributed computing project message board). None of the major sites I participate in online turned up. Several years ago I had 3 profiles relevant to who I was in the top 10 at one point or another; but between some of my doppelgangers engaging in self-SEO and Google having apparently decided my profiles here, on HardOCP, and on Einstein@Home (the three that used to turn up, with hundreds or thousands of posts each) are less relevant than three where I have only a handful of messages each I've largely became invisible to them. I see no problem with this; if anything I'd be interested in reverse SEO to push my profiles down even farther...:cool:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt