is Visual C++ obsolete?

[PIEBALDconsult]

I got an Android phone this weekend, so I took a look at how to develop for it. One thing I read mentioned that Android (the OS) is written in C and C++ to a large extent (as expected), so I assume one could write apps for it in C++.

[Lost User]

Totally agreed!:thumbsup:

Happy Programming

[Daniel Casserly]

Not really. The main app system thingy is all done on the Dalvik VM which is Java so all the SDK is Java. You can get plugins to program in other languages (even python!!) but Java is the default langauage.

Three types of people in this world, those that can count and those that can't www.casserlyprogramming.com

[Amir Hossein Jamshidi]

I have been programming in java and c# for two years(I know that it is not any thing in comparison to your 12 years skill), but I always feel that I don't have some thing . some thing like performance , speed and power . power for developing for every thing from embedded systems , drivers , game developing , 3d modeling and simulation and many other . Would you like to change our skills! :-\ :rose::rose::rose:

[YvesDaoust]

Why don't you stay in imaging ? It's the most beautiful place in the world :) They are still using good ol' C++. If I were you, I wouldn't focus on the development platform. You sure have many more assets than that.

[Paul M Watt]

You also have access to the native API and can develop in C++. The front end will have to start with the JAVA activities to initiate the app on the Dalvik VM, but after that you can use JNI to develop in C++ without the need for plugins.

All of my software is powered by a single Watt.

[rudolfsson]

I'd say that regular Windows application development in C++ is pretty much obsolete, it's just so much easier to develop GUIs using .NET languages that using VC++ just doesn't make much sense, hence the lack of available jobs. C++ itself though is still very much alive and kicking, and having solid C++ skills is still definitely a benefit. Even though the GUI stuff is done in C#/Java there is still a need for writing high performance components in native languages. As several people suggested already, why not learn C# (if you want to keep doing Windows app development) or Java (if you want a broader selection of platforms)? Learning either of these is a piece of cake for an experienced C++ programmer, you can pick up the basics in a day or two. The best way to stay competitive in today's job market is to have an extensive toolbox, so knowing multiple languages and platforms is critical. Best of luck with your job hunting!

[glennPattonWork3]

That got me to thinking, C++, C#/Java, VB (6 & NET), Python all languages are of use. I learnt C at Uni and still use it today. It's a case of Horses for courses, if I need to program a Micro-controller I will use C, if I need to do a gui interface for some Hardware I tend to use C#. There appears now to be a trend in the Embedded field for C++, which is fine but some of the programmers do not really seem to understand the memory constraints (Windows / PC devs) and find having to use C or (speak respectfully) Assembler tricky. I think Visual C++ got a bad reputation for devs being lazy with memory management and leaving systems open to Hackers/viruses to quote a former boss "you can build a gallows and hang yourself with C++, C# you don't have to rope". Give C# ago its effectively C++ but the :: has been replaced with . Glenn

[Fran Porretto]

Obsolete? No. But C and C++ are being crammed into a shrinking application domain.

I do a lot of real-time work: embedded devices, high-fidelity simulations, device drivers, and the like. C++ is my language of choice. But given the developments of the last decade, if I were asked to create a Web application, or a Windows application with a very complex visual interface, I wouldn't use C++; unfortunately, it's easier to do such things in other languages.

"Unfortunately?" I hear you ask. "Why unfortunately?" In my arrogant opinion, the C / C++ approach to language design remains the best around for portability, generality, and efficiency. Those languages allow the programmer to cuddle up as closely as he likes to the hardware without becoming CPU-dependent. They support extensibility in several ways, and make it easy to employ third-party libraries. As IEEE and ISO standards, they permit relatively easy (it's never automatic) porting of code from one platform to another. (Also, since they're independent standards, they aren't as susceptible as C# and VB to being jerked around in arbitrary ways by Microsoft.) Last but not least, one can learn enough to write fairly complex programs in C and C++ in a relatively short time. End of arrogant-opinion digression; we now return to the major topic.

We're currently in a wild-west sort of environment for language design and promulgation. Languages have been springing up fairly rapidly. Many of them appear to be oriented toward specific domains, just as FORTRAN was aimed at scientific number-crunching and COBOL was intended for business information handling. The last such period eventually produced a "shakeout," leaving C / C++ and SQL as the kings of the hill, with other languages relegated to legacy maintenance and occasional, extremely specialized applications (e.g., Forth, LISP). That might not happen this time, because both the variety of applications under development and the variety of environments in which applications must run have multiplied concurrently.

C and C++ will not be obsoleted soon, but the programmer who wants to work in them will have a tougher time finding a place to do so. However, there is good news of a sort: I'll be retiring in about three years. Hang on until then and you can have my slot.

(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)

[molesworth]

JoeGonzalez wrote:

Im looking for Visual C++ jobs and I can't find any that are not related to embeded or 3d development.

Do you have a particular reason for not considering embedded or 3D graphics jobs? With your background in imaging systems you'd most likely have no problem picking up the skills required for either. I've done a lot of work over many years in graphics, audio and embedded systems, and found that the skills are easily transferrable, particularly if you have a good grasp on what's going on "under the hood". You're also maybe not looking in the right places for jobs, as there doesn't seem to be a shortage of C/C++ posts around at the moment in lots of different fields. Try a few agencies who specialise in the kinds of work you'd maybe like to do as well - they often can get you leads to interesting work.

Days spent at sea are not deducted from one's alloted span - Phoenician proverb

[W Balboos GHB]

Being capable of programming in C and C++ shows the very important attribute of "capability". It requires you know more about what you're really doing. Sure, it may be necessary to drop down to something like C#, but a decent IT manager should be aware that, by-and-large, C# and Java are basically subsets (one might even say knockoffs) of C++; We live in a world/era that, more and more, wishes to cater to the lowest common denominator. We will not even speak of VB . . .

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert

"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

[PIEBALDconsult]

Right, and never having done Java I'd prefer to not jave to learn it -- I also realize that C# is very similar, so it shouldn't be too bad. As it is, I'm not very good at C++ either so maybe Java is a better choice anyway. :-O

[Gary Huck]

The last job I got in c/c++ was in 2005 ... quickly turned into a c# thing. Yes, there's nothing like c/c++ but the power and rapid dev of higher level tools means it's time to move on.

[computer_nerd]

Me too. I developed GUI software for years with Visual C++/MFC. I'm now learning C#/.NET as that has taken over as the preferred way to develop Windows GUI software. The experience of that development environment is more relevant to me than the language and the languages are very similar anyway. I would find a move to another environment like embedded systems more of a shift than moving from C++ to C# and staying in a familiar environment. Plus if you learn .NET you can also use it for web development. Is VC++ obsolete? Rightly or wrongly, C# has usurped it for now

[Dominic Amann]

We work in c++ here, and it is actually difficult to find good c++ programmers these days. We create software for processing and imaging the data from ground penetrating radar in studio, and we also develop firmware for our own (linux based) hardware. C++ is not dead - it has become more of a specialty - and may actually command better pay for the most experienced practitioners.

[Bob1000]

Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

Just wait until Windows 8 comes out and companies abandon Android and iPad/iPhone development. C++ is going to be huge...

Presume the ... is covering the words failure , flop or similar :)

[ClockMeister]

Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

Just wait until Windows 8 comes out and companies abandon Android and iPad/iPhone development. C++ is going to be huge...

Don't hold your breath.

[SeattleC]

C++ programming is far from obsolete. Somebody has to write all those servers. The visual C++ compiler generates very good code (compared to gcc), so it's not obsolete. So, what's wrong with graphics and embedded? Desktop client apps are no longer stylish; you can do quite a lot of that using web browsers (or hadn't you noticed). Where you still finds windows apps is in places where the app runs standalone. Those are "embedded" apps, even though they run on PCs. Not every embedded app is a toaster or coffeemaker. Some of them are MRI machines with many processors.

[Michael Waters]

C/C++ is the foundation upon which almost everything else is built. If you can "master" C++ (it's in quotes because I'm not sure anyone can truly master something so immense and powerful), anything else should be a breeze - a matter of learning the libraries and tool kits for a given language. So it doesn't matter if it's Java or C# or Python or even Objective-C, knowledge of C++ will give you an advantage. The same goes for Assembly, too. And as for the applications of C++ - hey, I'm not going to lie to you. Building a GUI in C++ is its own special corner of one of the nine levels of Hell. And it isn't nescesarily the best choice for direct, front-end code that will reside in a browser. But if you want to do anything ELSE with the fastest possible speed, with lowest possible memory footprint, and the most portable and maintainable code base, C++ is your answer.

[BillWoodruff]

Hi Pete, Now that you have told me this is not a "jest," and considering I pay attention to almost every word you say on CP ... everywhere you roam ... and on your blog :) I would really enjoy hearing more from you on this "projected future" in which Android, iPad, iPhone, etc., development is "abandoned," and Win 8 brings in a "renaissance" of C++. And a salient question to me, and I would guess many others, would be which flavour of Win8 tri-polar are you referring to: all of them: or, Metro; Win 8 Desktop; Win RT on ARM ? Of course, that gets into the issue of "how is the GUI and complex controls written ?" since, probably, a fine-tuned big-honking algorithm programmed in C++ for calculation, or other uses, is going to be portable, and independent of screen resolution and other hardware-specific issues. And, JavaScript, HTML5, CSS, vs. XAML ? They will be integral parts of this C++ renaissance ... or ... not ? I know you are very busy with CodeStash, and your other projects, but I hope we will have the pleasure of a blog entry, or fuller exposition, somewhere here on CP, exploring this very interesting scenario, as your time permits. best, Bill

"Humans are amphibians ... half spirit and half animal ... as spirits they belong to the eternal world, but as animals they inhabit time. This means that while their spirit can be directed to an eternal object, their bodies, passions, and imaginations are in continual change, for to be in time, means to change. Their nearest approach to constancy, therefore, is undulation: the repeated return to a level from which they repeatedly fall back, a series of troughs and peaks.” C.S. Lewis