How to get that warm supermarket beer cold in 12 minutes
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
(the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast)
The fact that you are lowering the freezing point of the water does not make the water any colder than it already is. Therefore, the beer does not get cold any more quickly with the salt than without it.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Yes my explanation is incorrect - and the explanation is complex(beyond my current ability to understand it..) However it does chill the beer faster than not using salt. [edit]I keep elephanting saying ice when I mean salt
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
(the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast)
The fact that you are lowering the freezing point of the water does not make the water any colder than it already is. Therefore, the beer does not get cold any more quickly with the salt than without it.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
My guess is this... With a lower freezing point, the ice will melt at a lower temperature. That means you'll have colder liquid. In the very least, the liquid will be able to conform better to the items being chilled. With ice, you have little air pockets, and I imagine gas is not as good at transferring heat (out of the items to chill).
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wizardzz wrote:
mildly chilled beer?
as in warm beer :laugh: I think we have been influenced by our cousins from across the pond. Back in the 80's chilled beer was, pretty much, unheard of in UK pubs.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
(the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast)
The fact that you are lowering the freezing point of the water does not make the water any colder than it already is. Therefore, the beer does not get cold any more quickly with the salt than without it.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
He's not cooling water, he's melting ice into water at a lower temperature, the liquid, now colder than 32 degrees, will envelope the surface area of the cans cooling it faster than just ice, or water, or both. Think of it as he's lowering the melting temperature of the ice rather than lowering the freezing temperature of water.
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So it's a hot day and I want some beer but there is only one can in the fridge! So off to the supermarket I go with my shopping list: Cans of beer(warm beer as they don't have a cold beer section) Ice(2kg pack) Bag of cheap salt So when I got home I put the ice in a bucket, sprinkled a good amount of salt on top, added water and then put the warm cans of beer in the bucket. 12 minutes later - ice cold beer :-D (the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast) It just works ok!(to be read with a stroppy voice) :laugh: [Edit]slightly whinny sounding correction to my correction of explanation in brackets() above.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice? Somehow this reminds me of Monty Python and the giant wooden rabbit...
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice? Somehow this reminds me of Monty Python and the giant wooden rabbit...
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He's not cooling water, he's melting ice into water at a lower temperature, the liquid, now colder than 32 degrees, will envelope the surface area of the cans cooling it faster than just ice, or water, or both. Think of it as he's lowering the melting temperature of the ice rather than lowering the freezing temperature of water.
wizardzz wrote:
lowering the melting temperature of the ice
That can't be right either.
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wizardzz wrote:
lowering the melting temperature of the ice
That can't be right either.
You are saying the salt does not effect ice? Have you ever experienced winter? Do you live in an area where roads are salted? Have you ever salted a frozen sidewalk? I've done it with salt and salt water. You can actually melt ice with salt, salt/water below the freezing point.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice? Somehow this reminds me of Monty Python and the giant wooden rabbit...
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice?
I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition! Everyone together now... ;)
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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He's not cooling water, he's melting ice into water at a lower temperature, the liquid, now colder than 32 degrees, will envelope the surface area of the cans cooling it faster than just ice, or water, or both. Think of it as he's lowering the melting temperature of the ice rather than lowering the freezing temperature of water.
That is an excellent explanation:thumbsup:
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
(the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast)
The fact that you are lowering the freezing point of the water does not make the water any colder than it already is. Therefore, the beer does not get cold any more quickly with the salt than without it.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Actually, this is a well known effect: If you salt ice the brine produced has a lower melting point than pure water ice, so it enters the liquid phase. There are bonds being broken between the molecules in the water-ice to do this, and this requires energy (taken in the form of heat) so the temperature does drop. I remember doing this as an experiment in school, it got cold enough to freeze moisture out of the air onto the beaker(though obviously we used thermometers for the experiment). This is worth a squizz[^] using enough salt gets down to -30oC
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice? Somehow this reminds me of Monty Python and the giant wooden rabbit...
Think of it like making a liquid ice (yeah I know). You are liquefying the ice without significantly increasing its temperature. So you have the low temperature of the ice plus the lot bigger cooling surface of the water for your cans.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop
Ummm... what? :confused: How does the salt affect the ice? Somehow this reminds me of Monty Python and the giant wooden rabbit...
Please see my reply above...
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
You are saying the salt does not effect ice? Have you ever experienced winter? Do you live in an area where roads are salted? Have you ever salted a frozen sidewalk? I've done it with salt and salt water. You can actually melt ice with salt, salt/water below the freezing point.
wizardzz wrote:
You are saying the salt does not effect ice?
Not in the way described.
wizardzz wrote:
Do you live in an area where roads are salted?
I used to. I shiver just thinking about it.
wizardzz wrote:
You can actually melt ice with salt
Is it a source of heat?
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Not if I can help it.
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So it's a hot day and I want some beer but there is only one can in the fridge! So off to the supermarket I go with my shopping list: Cans of beer(warm beer as they don't have a cold beer section) Ice(2kg pack) Bag of cheap salt So when I got home I put the ice in a bucket, sprinkled a good amount of salt on top, added water and then put the warm cans of beer in the bucket. 12 minutes later - ice cold beer :-D (the salt causes the freezing point of the ice to drop and hence cools the beer super-fast) It just works ok!(to be read with a stroppy voice) :laugh: [Edit]slightly whinny sounding correction to my correction of explanation in brackets() above.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
Next time, plan ahead. Think, man, think!
"I do not have to forgive my enemies, I have had them all shot." — Ramón Maria Narváez (1800-68).
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wizardzz wrote:
You are saying the salt does not effect ice?
Not in the way described.
wizardzz wrote:
Do you live in an area where roads are salted?
I used to. I shiver just thinking about it.
wizardzz wrote:
You can actually melt ice with salt
Is it a source of heat?
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Next time, plan ahead. Think, man, think!
"I do not have to forgive my enemies, I have had them all shot." — Ramón Maria Narváez (1800-68).
beer.Chilled().Count()>5 == inabilityToThink
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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If you are just being technical about the use of the term melt, then just say it, otherwise retreat to below the bridge hence you came.
No, but the salt affects the water not the ice.
wizardzz wrote:
the bridge hence you came.
I think you mean "whence". :-D
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No, but the salt affects the water not the ice.
wizardzz wrote:
the bridge hence you came.
I think you mean "whence". :-D
