The Developer Is Always Wrong
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MehGerbil wrote:
customer is always right
Only if you're a prostitute. The customer isn't a specialist, has little information on legal implications, has no idea of ROI or TCO, and in general - doesn't care about these things. That's why they pay for an expert. If the expert acts like a prostitute, and gives the client exactly what he asked for merely to obtain the payment, then he is in fact acting in the same way. For a professional, I expect a professional attitude. If the client wants to cross the pacific ocean in a volkswagen, I'l tell him he'll die.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
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MehGerbil wrote:
customer is always right
Only if you're a prostitute. The customer isn't a specialist, has little information on legal implications, has no idea of ROI or TCO, and in general - doesn't care about these things. That's why they pay for an expert. If the expert acts like a prostitute, and gives the client exactly what he asked for merely to obtain the payment, then he is in fact acting in the same way. For a professional, I expect a professional attitude. If the client wants to cross the pacific ocean in a volkswagen, I'l tell him he'll die.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
For a professional, I expect a professional attitude. If the client wants to cross the pacific ocean in a volkswagen, I'l tell him he'll die.
Not much faith in the German automobile company haven't you? :-\
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!!
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It's the corollary to the customer is always right. I created a program that imports records from a customer provided text file. The file is tab delimited and it has a particular format. I wrote up a document that describes the format and our clients are to send us the file using that format. There is nothing complicated about any of the requirements. Most files we receive look like someone turned a monkey loose in Notepad. So a manager calls me up and wants to know why the file wouldn't import. I guess the error message "File has an invalid format" wasn't clear enough, but I digress. The point is that the manager was frustrated and the client was frustrated and despite the fact that they were breaking the rules (of the program) the long and short of it was my program wasn't working. In short, the developer is always wrong. I'm going to revisit the program today with an eye on making it so that you can freakin' import a terribly broken tab delimited text file, a comma delimited text file, a text file that is missing fields, a .PDF file, a .JPEG, a porn video or Doritos stuffed into the CD slot - I don't care. Whatever the case, it won't show an error message that describes the problem because that is obviously a waste of time.
My take on this is that it there is a contract between the client and yourselves. The client's part of the contract is that they provide you with data in an agreed format. Your part of the contract is that you process the file in an agreed manner. If the client provides data in an incorrect format then it needs to be flagged with them to correct this. It is a really bad idea(most of the time)to alter raw client data. This is because if you introduce garbage into the data or make guesses regarding the data you are now responsible for this raw data - not a good position to be in.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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MehGerbil wrote:
customer is always right
Only if you're a prostitute. The customer isn't a specialist, has little information on legal implications, has no idea of ROI or TCO, and in general - doesn't care about these things. That's why they pay for an expert. If the expert acts like a prostitute, and gives the client exactly what he asked for merely to obtain the payment, then he is in fact acting in the same way. For a professional, I expect a professional attitude. If the client wants to cross the pacific ocean in a volkswagen, I'l tell him he'll die.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
If the client wants to cross the pacific ocean in a volkswagen, I'l tell him he'll die.
And if he still insists, you probably throw a life vest and an oxygen bottle onto the back seat and wish him a good voyage :) I call that learning by pain.
At least artificial intelligence already is superior to natural stupidity
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It's the corollary to the customer is always right. I created a program that imports records from a customer provided text file. The file is tab delimited and it has a particular format. I wrote up a document that describes the format and our clients are to send us the file using that format. There is nothing complicated about any of the requirements. Most files we receive look like someone turned a monkey loose in Notepad. So a manager calls me up and wants to know why the file wouldn't import. I guess the error message "File has an invalid format" wasn't clear enough, but I digress. The point is that the manager was frustrated and the client was frustrated and despite the fact that they were breaking the rules (of the program) the long and short of it was my program wasn't working. In short, the developer is always wrong. I'm going to revisit the program today with an eye on making it so that you can freakin' import a terribly broken tab delimited text file, a comma delimited text file, a text file that is missing fields, a .PDF file, a .JPEG, a porn video or Doritos stuffed into the CD slot - I don't care. Whatever the case, it won't show an error message that describes the problem because that is obviously a waste of time.
I recently wrote a nice function parser for simple equations to interface to a proprietary language, published a complete spec with clear, concise instructions and then I promptly got a trouble ticket, none of the equations work. You see, Outlook, replaces " with “ and since the users are emailing the equations through outlook, clearly, my processor was broken and didn't work. However, I digress, to quote the Joker, Users don't care what the plan is, they just want a plan. Even if it is absolutely horrible, they will go along; because there is a plan. Create a simple, step-by-step guide for how to "fix" files by importing them in Excel first. Make up some justification. The users will grumble but .... : )
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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It's the corollary to the customer is always right. I created a program that imports records from a customer provided text file. The file is tab delimited and it has a particular format. I wrote up a document that describes the format and our clients are to send us the file using that format. There is nothing complicated about any of the requirements. Most files we receive look like someone turned a monkey loose in Notepad. So a manager calls me up and wants to know why the file wouldn't import. I guess the error message "File has an invalid format" wasn't clear enough, but I digress. The point is that the manager was frustrated and the client was frustrated and despite the fact that they were breaking the rules (of the program) the long and short of it was my program wasn't working. In short, the developer is always wrong. I'm going to revisit the program today with an eye on making it so that you can freakin' import a terribly broken tab delimited text file, a comma delimited text file, a text file that is missing fields, a .PDF file, a .JPEG, a porn video or Doritos stuffed into the CD slot - I don't care. Whatever the case, it won't show an error message that describes the problem because that is obviously a waste of time.
If you say the words "tab-delimited file" to most people, they won't have a clue what you're talking about. Just tell 'em to use Excel. If the files aren't saved as TSV, it won't take a trice for you (or your prog) to open them and re-save them.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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MehGerbil wrote:
I'm going to revisit the program today with an eye on making it so that you can freakin' import a terribly broken tab delimited text file, a comma delimited text file, a text file that is missing fields, a .PDF file, a .JPEG, a porn video or Doritos stuffed into the CD slot
You just need custom error messages for each of those... Missing fields: "I'm sorry, but the ____ you ____ seems to be missi__ some _____. Why don't you _____ your _____ and try again?" PDF File: "In order to import Adobe PDF files, you have to upgrade to Adobe Acrobat 1.1. Please insert the floppy disk containing the original installation files." JPEG: "Sorry, buddy. I need data, and lolcats just aren't going to cut it" Porn video: "Thanks, I needed that. Now, how about inserting a nice, big data file?" Doritos: "Dude, I'm a computer. I eat spreadsheets, not chips."
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I used to work for the military in the UK, in SW. The guys were doing a project for the Swedish navy, a sonar system. They left, by mistake, an error message that read "You tit Sven" in the code. And guess what. Yep, the Swedish Navy hit that line of code, and were mighty pissed off! :laugh:
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My take on this is that it there is a contract between the client and yourselves. The client's part of the contract is that they provide you with data in an agreed format. Your part of the contract is that you process the file in an agreed manner. If the client provides data in an incorrect format then it needs to be flagged with them to correct this. It is a really bad idea(most of the time)to alter raw client data. This is because if you introduce garbage into the data or make guesses regarding the data you are now responsible for this raw data - not a good position to be in.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
It is a really bad idea(most of the time)to alter raw client data.
I found that doing this can have an effect on my stock portfolio. If my current modifications make it into production I should be able to retire in a couple of months. :laugh:
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MehGerbil wrote:
customer is always right
Only if you're a prostitute. The customer isn't a specialist, has little information on legal implications, has no idea of ROI or TCO, and in general - doesn't care about these things. That's why they pay for an expert. If the expert acts like a prostitute, and gives the client exactly what he asked for merely to obtain the payment, then he is in fact acting in the same way. For a professional, I expect a professional attitude. If the client wants to cross the pacific ocean in a volkswagen, I'l tell him he'll die.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
Funny, how no one thought of just suggesting that the car be carried in a boat across the Pacific. :-)
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It's the corollary to the customer is always right. I created a program that imports records from a customer provided text file. The file is tab delimited and it has a particular format. I wrote up a document that describes the format and our clients are to send us the file using that format. There is nothing complicated about any of the requirements. Most files we receive look like someone turned a monkey loose in Notepad. So a manager calls me up and wants to know why the file wouldn't import. I guess the error message "File has an invalid format" wasn't clear enough, but I digress. The point is that the manager was frustrated and the client was frustrated and despite the fact that they were breaking the rules (of the program) the long and short of it was my program wasn't working. In short, the developer is always wrong. I'm going to revisit the program today with an eye on making it so that you can freakin' import a terribly broken tab delimited text file, a comma delimited text file, a text file that is missing fields, a .PDF file, a .JPEG, a porn video or Doritos stuffed into the CD slot - I don't care. Whatever the case, it won't show an error message that describes the problem because that is obviously a waste of time.
Personally, I'd approach the problem by going back to the people providing the data and see where their data comes from (DB, Excel, etc.). Try to reduce the number of hoops they need to go to, as they don't seem to be experts at providing TSV data. Btw, random plug for the GenericParser[^]. :-D
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It's the corollary to the customer is always right. I created a program that imports records from a customer provided text file. The file is tab delimited and it has a particular format. I wrote up a document that describes the format and our clients are to send us the file using that format. There is nothing complicated about any of the requirements. Most files we receive look like someone turned a monkey loose in Notepad. So a manager calls me up and wants to know why the file wouldn't import. I guess the error message "File has an invalid format" wasn't clear enough, but I digress. The point is that the manager was frustrated and the client was frustrated and despite the fact that they were breaking the rules (of the program) the long and short of it was my program wasn't working. In short, the developer is always wrong. I'm going to revisit the program today with an eye on making it so that you can freakin' import a terribly broken tab delimited text file, a comma delimited text file, a text file that is missing fields, a .PDF file, a .JPEG, a porn video or Doritos stuffed into the CD slot - I don't care. Whatever the case, it won't show an error message that describes the problem because that is obviously a waste of time.
instead of changing your program, why not write a preprocessor to fix common problems the files you receive?
m.bergman
For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered. -- Voltaire
In most cases the only difference between disappointment and depression is your level of commitment. -- Marc Maron
I am not a chatbot
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If you say the words "tab-delimited file" to most people, they won't have a clue what you're talking about. Just tell 'em to use Excel. If the files aren't saved as TSV, it won't take a trice for you (or your prog) to open them and re-save them.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Excel in some respects is easier to parse than CSV/TSV. I'd just keep it in Excel and read it from there.
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MehGerbil wrote:
In short, the developer is always wrong.
I have actually heard this from a Manager once(A very top level guy). He also said one thing that was very condescending and upsetting. He said
"The reason I am not updating the technology is if our developers learn the new and cutting edge stuff then they will leave my company".
Every now and then say, "What the Elephant." "What the Elephant" gives you freedom. Freedom brings opportunity. Opportunity makes your future.
"A man's got to know his limitations" - Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry. Clearly your manager knew he wasn't worth working for.
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MehGerbil wrote:
customer is always right
Only if you're a prostitute. The customer isn't a specialist, has little information on legal implications, has no idea of ROI or TCO, and in general - doesn't care about these things. That's why they pay for an expert. If the expert acts like a prostitute, and gives the client exactly what he asked for merely to obtain the payment, then he is in fact acting in the same way. For a professional, I expect a professional attitude. If the client wants to cross the pacific ocean in a volkswagen, I'l tell him he'll die.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
Will you please be my coworker or manager? I will pay you.
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MehGerbil wrote:
In short, the developer is always wrong.
I have actually heard this from a Manager once(A very top level guy). He also said one thing that was very condescending and upsetting. He said
"The reason I am not updating the technology is if our developers learn the new and cutting edge stuff then they will leave my company".
Every now and then say, "What the Elephant." "What the Elephant" gives you freedom. Freedom brings opportunity. Opportunity makes your future.
I've heard that more than once!
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Eddy Vluggen wrote:
If the client wants to cross the pacific ocean in a volkswagen, I'l tell him he'll die.
And if he still insists, you probably throw a life vest and an oxygen bottle onto the back seat and wish him a good voyage :) I call that learning by pain.
At least artificial intelligence already is superior to natural stupidity
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It's the corollary to the customer is always right. I created a program that imports records from a customer provided text file. The file is tab delimited and it has a particular format. I wrote up a document that describes the format and our clients are to send us the file using that format. There is nothing complicated about any of the requirements. Most files we receive look like someone turned a monkey loose in Notepad. So a manager calls me up and wants to know why the file wouldn't import. I guess the error message "File has an invalid format" wasn't clear enough, but I digress. The point is that the manager was frustrated and the client was frustrated and despite the fact that they were breaking the rules (of the program) the long and short of it was my program wasn't working. In short, the developer is always wrong. I'm going to revisit the program today with an eye on making it so that you can freakin' import a terribly broken tab delimited text file, a comma delimited text file, a text file that is missing fields, a .PDF file, a .JPEG, a porn video or Doritos stuffed into the CD slot - I don't care. Whatever the case, it won't show an error message that describes the problem because that is obviously a waste of time.
Well...the customer isn't always right, bt he does tend to get an unnatural amount of slack!
Along with that, always remember the First Rule of Management:
"Everything is easy for the man who doesn't have to do it himself."
[Scott Adams, I think.]
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
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I used to work for the military in the UK, in SW. The guys were doing a project for the Swedish navy, a sonar system. They left, by mistake, an error message that read "You tit Sven" in the code. And guess what. Yep, the Swedish Navy hit that line of code, and were mighty pissed off! :laugh:
Well that's not really the same as the OP's original complaint. That's just bad coding practices. NEVER put in anything that would upset someone, even in early stages. You never know what is going to ship by accident.
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It's the corollary to the customer is always right. I created a program that imports records from a customer provided text file. The file is tab delimited and it has a particular format. I wrote up a document that describes the format and our clients are to send us the file using that format. There is nothing complicated about any of the requirements. Most files we receive look like someone turned a monkey loose in Notepad. So a manager calls me up and wants to know why the file wouldn't import. I guess the error message "File has an invalid format" wasn't clear enough, but I digress. The point is that the manager was frustrated and the client was frustrated and despite the fact that they were breaking the rules (of the program) the long and short of it was my program wasn't working. In short, the developer is always wrong. I'm going to revisit the program today with an eye on making it so that you can freakin' import a terribly broken tab delimited text file, a comma delimited text file, a text file that is missing fields, a .PDF file, a .JPEG, a porn video or Doritos stuffed into the CD slot - I don't care. Whatever the case, it won't show an error message that describes the problem because that is obviously a waste of time.
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It's the corollary to the customer is always right. I created a program that imports records from a customer provided text file. The file is tab delimited and it has a particular format. I wrote up a document that describes the format and our clients are to send us the file using that format. There is nothing complicated about any of the requirements. Most files we receive look like someone turned a monkey loose in Notepad. So a manager calls me up and wants to know why the file wouldn't import. I guess the error message "File has an invalid format" wasn't clear enough, but I digress. The point is that the manager was frustrated and the client was frustrated and despite the fact that they were breaking the rules (of the program) the long and short of it was my program wasn't working. In short, the developer is always wrong. I'm going to revisit the program today with an eye on making it so that you can freakin' import a terribly broken tab delimited text file, a comma delimited text file, a text file that is missing fields, a .PDF file, a .JPEG, a porn video or Doritos stuffed into the CD slot - I don't care. Whatever the case, it won't show an error message that describes the problem because that is obviously a waste of time.
Had a similar issue when writing an online booking system for a hotel chain. The Manager was happy as a pig in poop with things, but then all of a sudden it stopped letting her sign in to the system. As she was the main admin this was a bit of a problem. Her username was the name of her second cat or something equally peculiar, and her password was her home postcode. Can you guess the problem? Got to love end users... Danny