Vaccinations
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ryanb31 wrote:
From the CDC, the DTaP vaccine can cause long-term seizures, coma, or permanent brain damage. They claim they aren't sure it was caused by the vaccine but why post it? Because there is good evidence it is.
Your statement is false. They post it because they want to disclose what they do know. And what they do know is "These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine."
ryanb31 wrote:
Also, the influenza vaccine has caused life-threatening allergic reactions and even GBS.
Specious. The last is a condition that occurred in the 70s and has not occurred since.
ryanb31 wrote:
MMR - permanent brain damage.
Varicella- seizure.
Yellow Fever - organ failure - deathSpecious. And cherry picking. MMR - again the occurrence is so low that they are not sure that there is an association. Varicella - again the occurrence is so low that they are not sure that there is an association. Yellow Fever - Utter and complete nonsense. The mortality rate for yellow fever starts at 3% and can get as high as 50%. And survivors run some risk of liver damage. Not to mention of course that this vaccination has nothing to do with the US.
Nice try. "But the risk of a vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely low." That is what the CDC says. They don't say it is impossible, which is what most of the responses to my messages have been. I have never argued against getting vaccines. There may be a great reason to vaccinate against yellow fever or polio. My point all along is there is risk of serious brain damage with vaccinations so someone who chooses not to do it is not crazy. Both sides have a valid argument.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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your 18 month old baby died from it
That would be tragic. However, there are natural cures for the flu and I would rather take that small risk and cure the flu naturally then take the small risk of developing a brain disorder, which may not have any cure.
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took either of them to the doctor
Hah!! That will be the day. Haven't been to the doctor in many, many years, and never plan to. They don't fix anything. Actually, the last time I went to a doctor many years ago I caught the flu! Cesspool of nastiness.
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I doubt that there is any medical evidence to the support that claim.
I already showed you, and you ignored it. The CDC admits they can cause brain damage.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
There are no proven effective cures or definitive treatments for the influenza virus, natural or otherwise. The safest management strategy for at-risk populations (children, elderly, immunocompromised) is seasonal vaccination of themselves and close contacts and frequent handwashing. Your callous "well I had the flu once and I had fine" is noted, but I've seen lots of people get admitted to hospital requiring oxygen, sometimes requiring intubation and ICU, and sometimes die from influenza or its complications. I didn't realize that we could have just cured them with an herbal remedy or a tea made from ginkgo leaves or something while they were coughing up blood and struggling to breathe, I'll have to suggest that next time.
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There are no proven effective cures or definitive treatments for the influenza virus, natural or otherwise. The safest management strategy for at-risk populations (children, elderly, immunocompromised) is seasonal vaccination of themselves and close contacts and frequent handwashing. Your callous "well I had the flu once and I had fine" is noted, but I've seen lots of people get admitted to hospital requiring oxygen, sometimes requiring intubation and ICU, and sometimes die from influenza or its complications. I didn't realize that we could have just cured them with an herbal remedy or a tea made from ginkgo leaves or something while they were coughing up blood and struggling to breathe, I'll have to suggest that next time.
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no proven effective cures
Not by the medical community.
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I didn't realize...
Bingo!
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Not by the medical community.
That's the only community that matters when it comes to things that actually work instead of imaginary placebo cures. But hey, good luck using Google to diagnose your kids if they get sick. Hope you don't miss anything dangerous with your overconfidence...
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ryanb31 wrote:
Not by the medical community.
That's the only community that matters when it comes to things that actually work instead of imaginary placebo cures. But hey, good luck using Google to diagnose your kids if they get sick. Hope you don't miss anything dangerous with your overconfidence...
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That's the only community that matters when it comes to things that actually work
Now, how in the world did people ever survive for thousands of years before doctors and chemicals? Amazing.
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diagnose your kids if they get sick.
What first turned me off to doctors was my 2nd son, when he was 2 was having seizures. Doctors ran MRI, CAT, EKG, all of the tests they could and they said he is perfectly normal. Do you really need to study science to know that seizures are not perfectly normal? One trip to the chiropractor and he never had another seizure. He also had an ear infection one time. The doctor told us there "is nothing you can do" to heal it naturally. She said we had to put tubes in his ears. We got a second opinion from another doctor and they told us the same thing. A quick ask around from friends and we used garlic oil to clear it up. We went back to the doctor to make sure the infection was gone and the doctor had nothing to say. They were amazed. Doctors presrcibe medicine, which has side effects. THEY DO NOT TREAT THE PROBLEM, THEY TREAT SYMPTOMS. Not too useful.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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That's the only community that matters when it comes to things that actually work
Now, how in the world did people ever survive for thousands of years before doctors and chemicals? Amazing.
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diagnose your kids if they get sick.
What first turned me off to doctors was my 2nd son, when he was 2 was having seizures. Doctors ran MRI, CAT, EKG, all of the tests they could and they said he is perfectly normal. Do you really need to study science to know that seizures are not perfectly normal? One trip to the chiropractor and he never had another seizure. He also had an ear infection one time. The doctor told us there "is nothing you can do" to heal it naturally. She said we had to put tubes in his ears. We got a second opinion from another doctor and they told us the same thing. A quick ask around from friends and we used garlic oil to clear it up. We went back to the doctor to make sure the infection was gone and the doctor had nothing to say. They were amazed. Doctors presrcibe medicine, which has side effects. THEY DO NOT TREAT THE PROBLEM, THEY TREAT SYMPTOMS. Not too useful.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Now, how in the world did people ever survive for thousands of years before doctors and chemicals? Amazing.
They didn't. Many died in childbirth. More died in infancy or childhood of treatable infections or were left with permanent damage. You just don't realize how good you have it now.
ryanb31 wrote:
One trip to the chiropractor and he never had another seizure.
Or: - he wasn't actually having seizures - the seizures just went away on their own Both of which are much more likely than the chiropractor giving him a backrub and affecting something in the brain which (protip) makes absolutely no physiologic or anatomic sense. But hey, temporal correlation MUST prove causation... :rolleyes: Why don't you credit the breakfast he had the morning of the chiropractor appointment? It makes about the same amount of sense.
ryanb31 wrote:
We went back to the doctor to make sure the infection was gone and the doctor had nothing to say.
You mean a self-limited disease that they told you would go away on its own went away on its own!?! Shocking!?!?!? Seriously, if this is the limit of the narrow experience you have with actual medicine, you need to count your blessings, because this seriously is a real bunch of piddly shit.
ryanb31 wrote:
THEY DO NOT TREAT THE PROBLEM,
We do if we can. I offered lots of examples that you huffed and puffed at and finally ran away from. Thanks to our real education based on real science, we also have a better idea of what the real "problem" is as opposed to chiropractors, etc, who just make up easy-to-understand descriptions of things that don't actually exist and would usually fix themselves (see: above) and offer a magical cure that does nothing. Then when it goes away like it would people just like you who don't understand causality are AMMAAAAAZED!!!!
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ryanb31 wrote:
Now, how in the world did people ever survive for thousands of years before doctors and chemicals? Amazing.
They didn't. Many died in childbirth. More died in infancy or childhood of treatable infections or were left with permanent damage. You just don't realize how good you have it now.
ryanb31 wrote:
One trip to the chiropractor and he never had another seizure.
Or: - he wasn't actually having seizures - the seizures just went away on their own Both of which are much more likely than the chiropractor giving him a backrub and affecting something in the brain which (protip) makes absolutely no physiologic or anatomic sense. But hey, temporal correlation MUST prove causation... :rolleyes: Why don't you credit the breakfast he had the morning of the chiropractor appointment? It makes about the same amount of sense.
ryanb31 wrote:
We went back to the doctor to make sure the infection was gone and the doctor had nothing to say.
You mean a self-limited disease that they told you would go away on its own went away on its own!?! Shocking!?!?!? Seriously, if this is the limit of the narrow experience you have with actual medicine, you need to count your blessings, because this seriously is a real bunch of piddly shit.
ryanb31 wrote:
THEY DO NOT TREAT THE PROBLEM,
We do if we can. I offered lots of examples that you huffed and puffed at and finally ran away from. Thanks to our real education based on real science, we also have a better idea of what the real "problem" is as opposed to chiropractors, etc, who just make up easy-to-understand descriptions of things that don't actually exist and would usually fix themselves (see: above) and offer a magical cure that does nothing. Then when it goes away like it would people just like you who don't understand causality are AMMAAAAAZED!!!!
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Many died in childbirth...
Thanks for the history lesson. Yes, I am aware of this. Obviously the mortality rate is much much better now but you acted like we couldn't live without doctors. They are the all knowing. Go talk to some old timer out in the country and you'll be amazed at how simple things can cure stuff you go to the pharmacy for. Most of that knowledge is lost in society. I'm guess you don't believe in the Bible but there are accounts of people living over 900 years old. Can't do that with today's technology.
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he wasn't actually having seizures
Now you are just being an insensitive jerk. I'd smack you if you said that to me. How dare you! Such an idiot.
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You mean a self-limited disease that they told you would go away
Do you know how to read? They said we would have to operate. Are you just trolling? Serious! I hope you are not as ignorant and blind as you are making yourself look like. I really hope this is just trolling. If not, you clearly have been on vaccinations because you are mentally retarded.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Many died in childbirth...
Thanks for the history lesson. Yes, I am aware of this. Obviously the mortality rate is much much better now but you acted like we couldn't live without doctors. They are the all knowing. Go talk to some old timer out in the country and you'll be amazed at how simple things can cure stuff you go to the pharmacy for. Most of that knowledge is lost in society. I'm guess you don't believe in the Bible but there are accounts of people living over 900 years old. Can't do that with today's technology.
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he wasn't actually having seizures
Now you are just being an insensitive jerk. I'd smack you if you said that to me. How dare you! Such an idiot.
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You mean a self-limited disease that they told you would go away
Do you know how to read? They said we would have to operate. Are you just trolling? Serious! I hope you are not as ignorant and blind as you are making yourself look like. I really hope this is just trolling. If not, you clearly have been on vaccinations because you are mentally retarded.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Obviously the mortality rate is much much better now but you acted like we couldn't live without doctors.
You can bluster all you want but the fact is there are millions of people who are alive today and not paralyzed, not brain damaged, and living normal, functional lives instead of suffering in agony because of modern medical science. Old timer knowledge is great - again - for the piddly shit that usually goes away on its own. Go find an old timer that can reliably treat people with ulcerative colitis so they're not having dozens of bloody, painful diarrheas a day. Nobody lives to 900 years old because that is complete and utter nonsense. But hey, if you want to believe that, good for you. There's nothing wrong with setting lofty goals. :rolleyes:
ryanb31 wrote:
Now you are just being an insensitive jerk. I'd smack you if you said that to me. How dare you! Such an idiot.
Sorry, but it's a possibility that he wasn't having seizures - everyone can be wrong. Even you. How do you know something else wasn't going on? You don't know. You always have to consider other possibilities otherwise you prematurely close and miss things.
ryanb31 wrote:
hey said we would have to operate.
Tubes in the ears are meant to clear chronic otitis media and prevent recurrence, overall they can be helpful but they're not always necessary to clear the infection. In your case they weren't necessary. Again: shocking!!! Kids grow out of it either way.
ryanb31 wrote:
I hope you are not as ignorant and blind as you are making yourself look like.
Sorry that the truth hurts.
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I said it can be wrong.
As I said, you know science can be wrong. That's all I said.
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That's not a good reason to reject it.
Correct. But it's a wonderful reason not to use that as your only source.
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deliberately ignorant
oxymoron.
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Did you read my link about 9 babies dying because of the drop in vaccinations ?
"correlation is not causality" How does that feel? You can't blame unvaccinated for their deaths. Come on. You have got to be kidding me. Are you being deliberately ignorant?
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that there are facts
Yes, which you continue to ignore. You only accept facts that are proven by "science" which you admit is fallible.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
As I said, you know science can be wrong. That's all I said.
*sigh* but you're not making any sort of reasonable point. Science is still the best possible tool to know things. It's only wrong when proven wrong, or, at least, we should only assume it's wrong when proven wrong.
ryanb31 wrote:
But it's a wonderful reason not to use that as your only source.
This is the issue. Random theories and made up stories are not a 'source' in any meaningful way.
ryanb31 wrote:
oxymoron.
Not at all. If you're being told something and you refuse to listen, you're choosing to be ignorant.
ryanb31 wrote:
"correlation is not causality" How does that feel? You can't blame unvaccinated for their deaths. Come on. You have got to be kidding me. Are you being deliberately ignorant?
ROTFL - the rise in people not vaccinating is believed, through known mechanisms, to lower herd immunity. What we're seeing is the fulfilment of a rational hypothesis. As such, there is causality by a known mechanism. That's what your theories lack.
ryanb31 wrote:
You only accept facts that are proven by "science" which you admit is fallible.
I am sorry. I do not want to troll, although you seem to be trolling. But, this is stupid. Facts are only known facts if they are proven to be true. And science does that. So, if something is not proven by science, then by what mechanism are they 'facts' ? The fact is, you saw a correlation and assumed a causality. You have been asked several times to give me an article to read that explains the causality you claim, and it's mechanism, and shows from the data that vaccination results in increases in autism. You don't even accept that you need to show these things, which means you don't understand causality at all.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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strategy of flooding me
How old are you?
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'do you even know anyone autistic ? you are full of it'
Yes, I asked if you knew anyone autistic. So, instead of answering you got offended because you heard "you don't know anything about autism" which is not what I said. No wonder we can never make progress. You change what I say. Why do I even bother responding because you'll just change it.
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Nor is yours.
Never claimed that it was.
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random unproven theories of causality.
Ya, like 9 babies dying from the unvaccinated people. Really, how'd they prove that one? You keep spitting out causality and then you use it? So weak.
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'I could also come after you for not teaching your children proper principles about God. In my point of view, you are damaging your children and doing them harm. But, I know you are trying to do the best you can with what knowledge you have so I don't judge you.'
Thank you for another perfect example of how you twist what I said. Heathen at dictionary.com[^]Someone who does not acknowledge the God of the Bible. Really, that is what you heard me say? I even complimented you saying that you are doing the best you can. Can you stop adding to and twisting what I say? I would enjoy a conversation with you but it is near impossible when you keep changing what I say.
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Gee - I didn't see that one coming.
Sooooo, I guess you won't?
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keep an open mind to new ideas,
Really? This is advice coming from you? Wow.
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If you have one real, scientific study
I gave you a link to the CDC's website, the US's national agency that most encourages vaccines. They are the ones who order the vaccines and tell the people which ones to get. And THEY did studies and found that vaccines cause brain damage. What more evidence do you want? Seriously? The very makers of vaccines admit it can cause brain damage and you're crying for a "scient
ryanb31 wrote:
How old are you?
Old enough to know better than to feed trolls, and yet, here we are...
ryanb31 wrote:
Why do I even bother responding because you'll just change it.
So, 'you are full of it' was a polite enquiry as to how many autistic people I know ? Knowing some autistic people is actually irrelevant. Lots of people knew of cases of mental retardation and still assumed it was demon possession. That I know a lot about brain science speaks more to my knowledge of what autism is, than how many autistic friends I have.
ryanb31 wrote:
Ya, like 9 babies dying from the unvaccinated people. Really, how'd they prove that one? You keep spitting out causality and then you use it? So weak.
Well, again, you just don't get it. There is a path of causality here, the deaths prove a theory. Where is the theory of how vaccinations 'cause' autism ?
ryanb31 wrote:
Thank you for another perfect example of how you twist what I said. Heathen at dictionary.com[^]Someone who does not acknowledge the God of the Bible. Really, that is what you heard me say? I even complimented you saying that you are doing the best you can. Can you stop adding to and twisting what I say? I would enjoy a conversation with you but it is near impossible when you keep changing what I say.
"I could also come after you for not teaching your children proper principles about God. In my point of view, you are damaging your children and doing them harm." Seriously ? You don't think this was saying that I am not raising my kids to know about God ? What language do you claim to be speaking here ? In English, you were saying that you could attack me because you know I am damaging my kids and failing to teach them about God. That's what it says. Now you change your story.
ryanb31 wrote:
Sooooo, I guess you won't?
I won't assume that the medical fraternity is deliberately making kids sick, until I am given evidence, no.
ryanb31 wrote:
Really? This is advice coming from you? Wow.
Just because your ideas
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Thank you for the example of causality, because up until now, I didn't know what it was. ;P The same thing happened with gravity. Newton first thought it was constant everywhere. He did the best he could with the science he had. But he was wrong. Does that mean we should not listen to anything science says? Of course not, science is great. BUT IT DOES NOT KNOW EVERYTHING. You say you understand that, but you don't get it. You continue to admit that science CAN be wrong and I give you evidence that shows that vaccines can cause brain damage and you are so narrow-minded and stubborn that you can't see what is right in front of your face.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Thank you for the example of causality, because up until now, I didn't know what it was.
Well, that may actually be true.
ryanb31 wrote:
science is great. BUT IT DOES NOT KNOW EVERYTHING. You say you understand that, but you don't get it.
But what it knows IS what we know, and the scientific method is how we advance what we know. That is my point. What science knows IS what WE know.
ryanb31 wrote:
You continue to admit that science CAN be wrong and I give you evidence that shows that vaccines can cause brain damage and you are so narrow-minded and stubborn that you can't see what is right in front of your face.
I am not sure if brain damage is a real risk, but I know there ARE real ( but tiny ) risks. What you need to understand is that everyone needs to take a tiny risk in order to do away with a much, much larger danger.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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ryanb31 wrote:
As I said, you know science can be wrong. That's all I said.
*sigh* but you're not making any sort of reasonable point. Science is still the best possible tool to know things. It's only wrong when proven wrong, or, at least, we should only assume it's wrong when proven wrong.
ryanb31 wrote:
But it's a wonderful reason not to use that as your only source.
This is the issue. Random theories and made up stories are not a 'source' in any meaningful way.
ryanb31 wrote:
oxymoron.
Not at all. If you're being told something and you refuse to listen, you're choosing to be ignorant.
ryanb31 wrote:
"correlation is not causality" How does that feel? You can't blame unvaccinated for their deaths. Come on. You have got to be kidding me. Are you being deliberately ignorant?
ROTFL - the rise in people not vaccinating is believed, through known mechanisms, to lower herd immunity. What we're seeing is the fulfilment of a rational hypothesis. As such, there is causality by a known mechanism. That's what your theories lack.
ryanb31 wrote:
You only accept facts that are proven by "science" which you admit is fallible.
I am sorry. I do not want to troll, although you seem to be trolling. But, this is stupid. Facts are only known facts if they are proven to be true. And science does that. So, if something is not proven by science, then by what mechanism are they 'facts' ? The fact is, you saw a correlation and assumed a causality. You have been asked several times to give me an article to read that explains the causality you claim, and it's mechanism, and shows from the data that vaccination results in increases in autism. You don't even accept that you need to show these things, which means you don't understand causality at all.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Science is still the best possible tool to know things.
Your opinion. I don't have to wait for science to prove something that I observe.
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Random theories and made up stories are not a 'source' in any meaningful way.
True. Not sure why you brought that up. None of my "theories" are random and none of my stories are made up.
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you're choosing to be ignorant.
I tell you that I have seen vaccines cause brain damage, the CDC website says they can, and you continue to deny it. You are deliberately ignorant.
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is believed,
It's believed, not proven. Thank you. Oh, but you'll say "through known mechanisms." Somehow that changes belief? Is seeing someone develop a brain disorder an unknown mechanism? Is that why you won't accept it? Observation is not a known mechanism? I thought everyone knew about it. I am being very sarcastic because you are blowing my mind with how ridiculous your statements are. You constantly contradict yourself and everything you say boils down to "I am right because I know I am." You have nothing.
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causality by a known mechanism.
Oh, OK. So using causality is only OK for you. Because a known mechanism. So, observation is not a known mechanism?
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And science does that.
Science helps with that. Before Newton had his theory on gravity don't you think people knew that something would fall if they dropped it? Well, how in the world could they have possibly known that if science hadn't proven it yet? Simple observation. Something a 2 year old can understand and for some reason you can't.
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you saw a correlation and assumed a causality.
As did you. You even admit that it is believed they are related. Not proven, just believed even with "known mechanisms." The fact of the matter is the CDC itself admits they can cause brain damage.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote:
How old are you?
Old enough to know better than to feed trolls, and yet, here we are...
ryanb31 wrote:
Why do I even bother responding because you'll just change it.
So, 'you are full of it' was a polite enquiry as to how many autistic people I know ? Knowing some autistic people is actually irrelevant. Lots of people knew of cases of mental retardation and still assumed it was demon possession. That I know a lot about brain science speaks more to my knowledge of what autism is, than how many autistic friends I have.
ryanb31 wrote:
Ya, like 9 babies dying from the unvaccinated people. Really, how'd they prove that one? You keep spitting out causality and then you use it? So weak.
Well, again, you just don't get it. There is a path of causality here, the deaths prove a theory. Where is the theory of how vaccinations 'cause' autism ?
ryanb31 wrote:
Thank you for another perfect example of how you twist what I said. Heathen at dictionary.com[^]Someone who does not acknowledge the God of the Bible. Really, that is what you heard me say? I even complimented you saying that you are doing the best you can. Can you stop adding to and twisting what I say? I would enjoy a conversation with you but it is near impossible when you keep changing what I say.
"I could also come after you for not teaching your children proper principles about God. In my point of view, you are damaging your children and doing them harm." Seriously ? You don't think this was saying that I am not raising my kids to know about God ? What language do you claim to be speaking here ? In English, you were saying that you could attack me because you know I am damaging my kids and failing to teach them about God. That's what it says. Now you change your story.
ryanb31 wrote:
Sooooo, I guess you won't?
I won't assume that the medical fraternity is deliberately making kids sick, until I am given evidence, no.
ryanb31 wrote:
Really? This is advice coming from you? Wow.
Just because your ideas
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There is a path of causality here, the deaths prove a theory
No, all they do is prove the theory may have some merit. It is not proof. It is still belief.
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the medical fraternity is deliberately making kids sick
Is English not your native language? Why do you continue to act intelligent and then change what I say? I have never said it was deliberate.
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your ideas have no basis in evidence
Big fat lie.
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You gave me a link to a search that was designed to present your view, willy nilly. Give me one study to read.
I was pretty sure in one of my many message to you I shared this.[^]I believe you ignored it but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, even though you don't deserve that after so much nonsense. This link is to the CDC. I know you are not in America so you may not understand but they order the vaccines and they are the foremost experts on vaccines and the foremost advocates for them and they admit they can cause brain damage. How much more evidence do you want?
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that the risk is MUCH lower compared to the risk of death from these diseases.
Not in the US. The risk of actually dying from a disease in the US from being unvaccinated is extremely low.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Science is still the best possible tool to know things.
Your opinion. I don't have to wait for science to prove something that I observe.
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Random theories and made up stories are not a 'source' in any meaningful way.
True. Not sure why you brought that up. None of my "theories" are random and none of my stories are made up.
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you're choosing to be ignorant.
I tell you that I have seen vaccines cause brain damage, the CDC website says they can, and you continue to deny it. You are deliberately ignorant.
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is believed,
It's believed, not proven. Thank you. Oh, but you'll say "through known mechanisms." Somehow that changes belief? Is seeing someone develop a brain disorder an unknown mechanism? Is that why you won't accept it? Observation is not a known mechanism? I thought everyone knew about it. I am being very sarcastic because you are blowing my mind with how ridiculous your statements are. You constantly contradict yourself and everything you say boils down to "I am right because I know I am." You have nothing.
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causality by a known mechanism.
Oh, OK. So using causality is only OK for you. Because a known mechanism. So, observation is not a known mechanism?
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And science does that.
Science helps with that. Before Newton had his theory on gravity don't you think people knew that something would fall if they dropped it? Well, how in the world could they have possibly known that if science hadn't proven it yet? Simple observation. Something a 2 year old can understand and for some reason you can't.
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you saw a correlation and assumed a causality.
As did you. You even admit that it is believed they are related. Not proven, just believed even with "known mechanisms." The fact of the matter is the CDC itself admits they can cause brain damage.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
It's believed, not proven. Thank you. Oh, but you'll say "through known mechanisms." Somehow that changes belief? Is seeing someone develop a brain disorder an unknown mechanism? Is that why you won't accept it? Observation is not a known mechanism? I thought everyone knew about it. I am being very sarcastic because you are blowing my mind with how ridiculous your statements are. You constantly contradict yourself and everything you say boils down to "I am right because I know I am." You have nothing.
Herd Immunity is a natural phenomenon. Prior to vaccination, cycles of natural infection added to the herd’s immunity. In my generation Measles, Chickenpox, Mumps, etc. were encountered several times during our school days, conferring immunity. Vaccinating a large proportion of the population is thought to achieve a similar result: that the non-vaccinated minority will not be exposed to diseases no longer carried by the vaccinated majority. Since it is possible for outbreaks of a disease (e.g. measles) to occur in a 100% vaccinated population, this definition of Herd Immunity is open to debate. (And is the reason for 'booster' shots - and $$$$$ ker-ching! if you are cynical.)
ryanb31 wrote:
Before Newton had his theory on gravity don't you think people knew that something would fall if they dropped it? Well, how in the world could they have possibly known that if science hadn't proven it yet? Simple observation. Something a 2 year old can understand and for some reason you can't.
Must be the silliest thing that you have ever posted. Isaac Newton's theories were on the nature of gravity, light, etc. - not their existence! :rolleyes:
ryanb31 wrote:
Simple observation.
But the fool on the hill, Sees the sun going down, And the eyes in his head, See the world spinning 'round.
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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ryanb31 wrote:
It's believed, not proven. Thank you. Oh, but you'll say "through known mechanisms." Somehow that changes belief? Is seeing someone develop a brain disorder an unknown mechanism? Is that why you won't accept it? Observation is not a known mechanism? I thought everyone knew about it. I am being very sarcastic because you are blowing my mind with how ridiculous your statements are. You constantly contradict yourself and everything you say boils down to "I am right because I know I am." You have nothing.
Herd Immunity is a natural phenomenon. Prior to vaccination, cycles of natural infection added to the herd’s immunity. In my generation Measles, Chickenpox, Mumps, etc. were encountered several times during our school days, conferring immunity. Vaccinating a large proportion of the population is thought to achieve a similar result: that the non-vaccinated minority will not be exposed to diseases no longer carried by the vaccinated majority. Since it is possible for outbreaks of a disease (e.g. measles) to occur in a 100% vaccinated population, this definition of Herd Immunity is open to debate. (And is the reason for 'booster' shots - and $$$$$ ker-ching! if you are cynical.)
ryanb31 wrote:
Before Newton had his theory on gravity don't you think people knew that something would fall if they dropped it? Well, how in the world could they have possibly known that if science hadn't proven it yet? Simple observation. Something a 2 year old can understand and for some reason you can't.
Must be the silliest thing that you have ever posted. Isaac Newton's theories were on the nature of gravity, light, etc. - not their existence! :rolleyes:
ryanb31 wrote:
Simple observation.
But the fool on the hill, Sees the sun going down, And the eyes in his head, See the world spinning 'round.
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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Newton's theories were on the nature of gravity
Still doesn't change my point.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Still doesn't change my point.
Yes it does. Simple observation shows us that the sun rises and sets.
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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Simple observation shows us that the sun rises and sets.
True. And it does. And Columbus also used simple observation to realize the earth was not flat. Just because science can't prove something does not mean it does not exist.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Science is still the best possible tool to know things.
Your opinion. I don't have to wait for science to prove something that I observe.
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Random theories and made up stories are not a 'source' in any meaningful way.
True. Not sure why you brought that up. None of my "theories" are random and none of my stories are made up.
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you're choosing to be ignorant.
I tell you that I have seen vaccines cause brain damage, the CDC website says they can, and you continue to deny it. You are deliberately ignorant.
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is believed,
It's believed, not proven. Thank you. Oh, but you'll say "through known mechanisms." Somehow that changes belief? Is seeing someone develop a brain disorder an unknown mechanism? Is that why you won't accept it? Observation is not a known mechanism? I thought everyone knew about it. I am being very sarcastic because you are blowing my mind with how ridiculous your statements are. You constantly contradict yourself and everything you say boils down to "I am right because I know I am." You have nothing.
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causality by a known mechanism.
Oh, OK. So using causality is only OK for you. Because a known mechanism. So, observation is not a known mechanism?
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And science does that.
Science helps with that. Before Newton had his theory on gravity don't you think people knew that something would fall if they dropped it? Well, how in the world could they have possibly known that if science hadn't proven it yet? Simple observation. Something a 2 year old can understand and for some reason you can't.
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you saw a correlation and assumed a causality.
As did you. You even admit that it is believed they are related. Not proven, just believed even with "known mechanisms." The fact of the matter is the CDC itself admits they can cause brain damage.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Your opinion. I don't have to wait for science to prove something that I observe.
I don't make the mistake of assuming that i've 'observed' something when I've seen two different events and not a causal chain. If I see you hit someone, and they fall down, that's a chain. If I hear you fart, and someone falls down, that's not a chain, it's an assumption of causality.
ryanb31 wrote:
True. Not sure why you brought that up. None of my "theories" are random and none of my stories are made up.
Your theory is not random in the sense that you didn't make it up, you chose to believe a theory that has been proven wrong. Your made up story is not that your friend has an autistic child, but that you have any reason beyond random stories that you read to believe it was caused by a vaccination.
ryanb31 wrote:
I tell you that I have seen vaccines cause brain damage
So you actually got inside this girl's head and saw this occur ? You didn't just see two events and ASSUME they were tied ?
ryanb31 wrote:
the CDC website says they can
And yet I still have no link from you. This proves beyond all doubt in my mind that this is a case of cognitive dissonance. You gave me a link to anyone who claimed what you claim, I've asked for one credible link and you won't give it. Deep down, you know it does not exist, but you keep defending it. I doubt very much that the CDC web site says that a vaccination can cause autism. Autism does NOT work that way.
ryanb31 wrote:
Is seeing someone develop a brain disorder an unknown mechanism?
It's not a mechanism, it's an effect. Explaining the mechanisms that cause effects, is what science does, and what you can't do.
ryanb31 wrote:
Observation is not a known mechanism?
It's a mechanism for learning, yes. But observing two random events is not the same as observing the mechanism by which it's believed that one causes another.
ryanb31 wrote:
I am being very sarcastic because you are blowing my mind with how ridiculous your statements are
Sorry to be rude, but that's because you have so many layers of ignorance we have to work through. The
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There is a path of causality here, the deaths prove a theory
No, all they do is prove the theory may have some merit. It is not proof. It is still belief.
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the medical fraternity is deliberately making kids sick
Is English not your native language? Why do you continue to act intelligent and then change what I say? I have never said it was deliberate.
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your ideas have no basis in evidence
Big fat lie.
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You gave me a link to a search that was designed to present your view, willy nilly. Give me one study to read.
I was pretty sure in one of my many message to you I shared this.[^]I believe you ignored it but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, even though you don't deserve that after so much nonsense. This link is to the CDC. I know you are not in America so you may not understand but they order the vaccines and they are the foremost experts on vaccines and the foremost advocates for them and they admit they can cause brain damage. How much more evidence do you want?
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that the risk is MUCH lower compared to the risk of death from these diseases.
Not in the US. The risk of actually dying from a disease in the US from being unvaccinated is extremely low.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
No, all they do is prove the theory may have some merit. It is not proof. It is still belief.
It is, at least, the best theory we have to explain it.
ryanb31 wrote:
I have never said it was deliberate.
If scientists know that vaccinations cause autism, and hide it to make money, how is that not deliberate ?
ryanb31 wrote:
Big fat lie.
OK, they have no basis in REAL evidence. They have the veneer of pseudo science.
ryanb31 wrote:
I was pretty sure in one of my many message to you I shared this.[^]
Perhaps. Perhaps I remembered the link to 'proof that vaccinations cause autism' and the hits it got, and ignored it, and then later asked. Severe Problems (Very Rare) Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses) Several other severe problems have been reported after DTaP vaccine. These include: Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness Permanent brain damage. These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine. Less than one in a million doses - so rare that it's hard to tell if the occurrence is statistically significant for people who have the vaccine. Did you read all of that, or just the words 'brain damage' ? I knew that this was the case. I want something that actually states that kids who have vaccinations are more likely to be autistic than kids who do not. If this is not true, vaccinations never cause autism.
ryanb31 wrote:
I know you are not in America so you may not understand but they order the vaccines and they are the foremost experts on vaccines and the foremost advocates for them and they admit they can cause brain damage. How much more evidence do you want?
Something more than 'less than one in a million, too low to know for sure if vaccinations are even the cause'.
ryanb31 wrote:
Not in the US. The risk of actually dying from a disease in the US from being unvaccinated is extremely low.
Only because you selfishly feed off the herd immunity that is there for you to take because the
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they are all ancient history
And 200 years from now, many of our current science will be too.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
But if you think you know which bits we will have moved on from ( and this is not a BAD thing, it's how science works ), you need to prove it with evidence. In the meantime, the point is entirely that what we believe science has proven today is the state of human knowledge. There's enough tin foil hat wearing anti vaccers for you to get the data to prove that your kids have a lower incidence of autism than a group of vaccinated kids who are similar in other respects, so why don't you go ahead and do that ? Use the principles of science to expand human knowledge, either by proving or disproving your random theory ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.