Vaccinations
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Science is still the best possible tool to know things.
Your opinion. I don't have to wait for science to prove something that I observe.
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Random theories and made up stories are not a 'source' in any meaningful way.
True. Not sure why you brought that up. None of my "theories" are random and none of my stories are made up.
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you're choosing to be ignorant.
I tell you that I have seen vaccines cause brain damage, the CDC website says they can, and you continue to deny it. You are deliberately ignorant.
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is believed,
It's believed, not proven. Thank you. Oh, but you'll say "through known mechanisms." Somehow that changes belief? Is seeing someone develop a brain disorder an unknown mechanism? Is that why you won't accept it? Observation is not a known mechanism? I thought everyone knew about it. I am being very sarcastic because you are blowing my mind with how ridiculous your statements are. You constantly contradict yourself and everything you say boils down to "I am right because I know I am." You have nothing.
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causality by a known mechanism.
Oh, OK. So using causality is only OK for you. Because a known mechanism. So, observation is not a known mechanism?
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And science does that.
Science helps with that. Before Newton had his theory on gravity don't you think people knew that something would fall if they dropped it? Well, how in the world could they have possibly known that if science hadn't proven it yet? Simple observation. Something a 2 year old can understand and for some reason you can't.
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you saw a correlation and assumed a causality.
As did you. You even admit that it is believed they are related. Not proven, just believed even with "known mechanisms." The fact of the matter is the CDC itself admits they can cause brain damage.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Your opinion. I don't have to wait for science to prove something that I observe.
I don't make the mistake of assuming that i've 'observed' something when I've seen two different events and not a causal chain. If I see you hit someone, and they fall down, that's a chain. If I hear you fart, and someone falls down, that's not a chain, it's an assumption of causality.
ryanb31 wrote:
True. Not sure why you brought that up. None of my "theories" are random and none of my stories are made up.
Your theory is not random in the sense that you didn't make it up, you chose to believe a theory that has been proven wrong. Your made up story is not that your friend has an autistic child, but that you have any reason beyond random stories that you read to believe it was caused by a vaccination.
ryanb31 wrote:
I tell you that I have seen vaccines cause brain damage
So you actually got inside this girl's head and saw this occur ? You didn't just see two events and ASSUME they were tied ?
ryanb31 wrote:
the CDC website says they can
And yet I still have no link from you. This proves beyond all doubt in my mind that this is a case of cognitive dissonance. You gave me a link to anyone who claimed what you claim, I've asked for one credible link and you won't give it. Deep down, you know it does not exist, but you keep defending it. I doubt very much that the CDC web site says that a vaccination can cause autism. Autism does NOT work that way.
ryanb31 wrote:
Is seeing someone develop a brain disorder an unknown mechanism?
It's not a mechanism, it's an effect. Explaining the mechanisms that cause effects, is what science does, and what you can't do.
ryanb31 wrote:
Observation is not a known mechanism?
It's a mechanism for learning, yes. But observing two random events is not the same as observing the mechanism by which it's believed that one causes another.
ryanb31 wrote:
I am being very sarcastic because you are blowing my mind with how ridiculous your statements are
Sorry to be rude, but that's because you have so many layers of ignorance we have to work through. The
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There is a path of causality here, the deaths prove a theory
No, all they do is prove the theory may have some merit. It is not proof. It is still belief.
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the medical fraternity is deliberately making kids sick
Is English not your native language? Why do you continue to act intelligent and then change what I say? I have never said it was deliberate.
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your ideas have no basis in evidence
Big fat lie.
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You gave me a link to a search that was designed to present your view, willy nilly. Give me one study to read.
I was pretty sure in one of my many message to you I shared this.[^]I believe you ignored it but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, even though you don't deserve that after so much nonsense. This link is to the CDC. I know you are not in America so you may not understand but they order the vaccines and they are the foremost experts on vaccines and the foremost advocates for them and they admit they can cause brain damage. How much more evidence do you want?
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that the risk is MUCH lower compared to the risk of death from these diseases.
Not in the US. The risk of actually dying from a disease in the US from being unvaccinated is extremely low.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
No, all they do is prove the theory may have some merit. It is not proof. It is still belief.
It is, at least, the best theory we have to explain it.
ryanb31 wrote:
I have never said it was deliberate.
If scientists know that vaccinations cause autism, and hide it to make money, how is that not deliberate ?
ryanb31 wrote:
Big fat lie.
OK, they have no basis in REAL evidence. They have the veneer of pseudo science.
ryanb31 wrote:
I was pretty sure in one of my many message to you I shared this.[^]
Perhaps. Perhaps I remembered the link to 'proof that vaccinations cause autism' and the hits it got, and ignored it, and then later asked. Severe Problems (Very Rare) Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses) Several other severe problems have been reported after DTaP vaccine. These include: Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness Permanent brain damage. These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine. Less than one in a million doses - so rare that it's hard to tell if the occurrence is statistically significant for people who have the vaccine. Did you read all of that, or just the words 'brain damage' ? I knew that this was the case. I want something that actually states that kids who have vaccinations are more likely to be autistic than kids who do not. If this is not true, vaccinations never cause autism.
ryanb31 wrote:
I know you are not in America so you may not understand but they order the vaccines and they are the foremost experts on vaccines and the foremost advocates for them and they admit they can cause brain damage. How much more evidence do you want?
Something more than 'less than one in a million, too low to know for sure if vaccinations are even the cause'.
ryanb31 wrote:
Not in the US. The risk of actually dying from a disease in the US from being unvaccinated is extremely low.
Only because you selfishly feed off the herd immunity that is there for you to take because the
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they are all ancient history
And 200 years from now, many of our current science will be too.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
But if you think you know which bits we will have moved on from ( and this is not a BAD thing, it's how science works ), you need to prove it with evidence. In the meantime, the point is entirely that what we believe science has proven today is the state of human knowledge. There's enough tin foil hat wearing anti vaccers for you to get the data to prove that your kids have a lower incidence of autism than a group of vaccinated kids who are similar in other respects, so why don't you go ahead and do that ? Use the principles of science to expand human knowledge, either by proving or disproving your random theory ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Simple observation shows us that the sun rises and sets.
True. And it does. And Columbus also used simple observation to realize the earth was not flat. Just because science can't prove something does not mean it does not exist.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
And it does.
Now you are just being silly.
ryanb31 wrote:
And Columbus also used simple observation to realize the earth was not flat.
And now you are displaying your ignorance.
ryanb31 wrote:
Just because science can't prove something does not mean it does not exist.
I think you meant "Just because science cannot establish a causality (between, say, vaccination and autism) does not mean that one does not exist." I don't think anyone would deny that. However, analyses of vaccinated vs un-vaccinated children, as yet, show no evidence of such a link. The only difference in health being that un-vaccinated children have a higher incidence of the diseases for which they have not been vaccinated. Just because anti-vaccine folks have many, many, different theoretical causalities doesn't mean that one of them must be true.
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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But if you think you know which bits we will have moved on from ( and this is not a BAD thing, it's how science works ), you need to prove it with evidence. In the meantime, the point is entirely that what we believe science has proven today is the state of human knowledge. There's enough tin foil hat wearing anti vaccers for you to get the data to prove that your kids have a lower incidence of autism than a group of vaccinated kids who are similar in other respects, so why don't you go ahead and do that ? Use the principles of science to expand human knowledge, either by proving or disproving your random theory ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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ryanb31 wrote:
And it does.
Now you are just being silly.
ryanb31 wrote:
And Columbus also used simple observation to realize the earth was not flat.
And now you are displaying your ignorance.
ryanb31 wrote:
Just because science can't prove something does not mean it does not exist.
I think you meant "Just because science cannot establish a causality (between, say, vaccination and autism) does not mean that one does not exist." I don't think anyone would deny that. However, analyses of vaccinated vs un-vaccinated children, as yet, show no evidence of such a link. The only difference in health being that un-vaccinated children have a higher incidence of the diseases for which they have not been vaccinated. Just because anti-vaccine folks have many, many, different theoretical causalities doesn't mean that one of them must be true.
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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Now you are just being silly.
I was agreeing with you. I wasn't sure what your point about the sun rising and setting was. It does rise and set, so what was your point? You need to be more clear then.
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And now you are displaying your ignorance.
About Columbus or something else? Then explain. How? Don't just call names, back it up.
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I don't think anyone would deny that.
Apparently you haven't read any of the other messages to me from other people. Christian, for example, says he will not believe it until science proves it.
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analyses of vaccinated vs un-vaccinated children, as yet, show no evidence of such a link.
If the CDC admits that vaccines can cause brain damage, how is it hard to understand?
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un-vaccinated children have a higher incidence of the diseases for which they have not been vaccinated.
That's not what is being discussed. It's the side effects.
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different theoretical causalities doesn't mean that one of them must be true.
True. However, the CDC admits they can cause brain damage. Why do I feel that no one can see that? They admit it can cause brain damage. It's on their site. That's not a theoretical anything. They admit it. Period.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Thanks for the laughs. :-D
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
And thanks for the window into a very different world view.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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your 18 month old baby died from it
That would be tragic. However, there are natural cures for the flu and I would rather take that small risk and cure the flu naturally then take the small risk of developing a brain disorder, which may not have any cure.
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took either of them to the doctor
Hah!! That will be the day. Haven't been to the doctor in many, many years, and never plan to. They don't fix anything. Actually, the last time I went to a doctor many years ago I caught the flu! Cesspool of nastiness.
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I doubt that there is any medical evidence to the support that claim.
I already showed you, and you ignored it. The CDC admits they can cause brain damage.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Nice try. "But the risk of a vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely low." That is what the CDC says. They don't say it is impossible, which is what most of the responses to my messages have been. I have never argued against getting vaccines. There may be a great reason to vaccinate against yellow fever or polio. My point all along is there is risk of serious brain damage with vaccinations so someone who chooses not to do it is not crazy. Both sides have a valid argument.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
"But the risk of a vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely low." That is what the CDC says. They don't say it is impossible, which is what most of the responses to my messages have been.
Specious. You can claim that you could be in an automobile accident on the way to the doctor to get the vaccination. And it is quite possible that the risk for that is higher than the other risks you state.
ryanb31 wrote:
My point all along is there is risk of serious brain damage with vaccinations so someone who chooses not to do it is not crazy
They are. First, you are stating the point as thought is is a rational conclusion from the real evidence. A rational conclusion cannot exist using only using the negative outcomes. It must consider both sides. And for both sides it is either equal or favorable for taking it. Second you are ignoring the fact that many people are using "evidence" that is not in fact real evidence but rather just unsupported information gleaned from the web.
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Now you are just being silly.
I was agreeing with you. I wasn't sure what your point about the sun rising and setting was. It does rise and set, so what was your point? You need to be more clear then.
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And now you are displaying your ignorance.
About Columbus or something else? Then explain. How? Don't just call names, back it up.
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I don't think anyone would deny that.
Apparently you haven't read any of the other messages to me from other people. Christian, for example, says he will not believe it until science proves it.
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analyses of vaccinated vs un-vaccinated children, as yet, show no evidence of such a link.
If the CDC admits that vaccines can cause brain damage, how is it hard to understand?
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un-vaccinated children have a higher incidence of the diseases for which they have not been vaccinated.
That's not what is being discussed. It's the side effects.
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different theoretical causalities doesn't mean that one of them must be true.
True. However, the CDC admits they can cause brain damage. Why do I feel that no one can see that? They admit it can cause brain damage. It's on their site. That's not a theoretical anything. They admit it. Period.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
It does rise and set, so what was your point?
The point was made earlier. Simple observation: the sun rises and sets. Scientific observation: the earth rotates.
ryanb31 wrote:
About Columbus or something else? Then explain. How? Don't just call names, back it up.
You truly do not know that educated people had accepted that the world was spherical for over 1,500 years before Columbus?
ryanb31 wrote:
Christian, for example, says he will not believe it until science proves it.
That is quite reasonable, I don't accept anecdotal evidence as proof either. That in no way contradicts "Just because science cannot establish a causality does not mean that one does not exist."
ryanb31 wrote:
If the CDC admits that vaccines can cause brain damage
ryanb31 wrote:
However, the CDC admits they can cause brain damage.
ryanb31 wrote:
They admit it can cause brain damage.
But they don't. They merely note that these events have occurred after vaccination, and: These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine. But this happens so rarely, experts cannot be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not.
ryanb31 wrote:
That's not what is being discussed. It's the side effects.
The only difference in health being that un-vaccinated children have a higher incidence of the diseases for which they have not been vaccinated. (I.E., no increase in the incidence of brain damage, autism, or any other health problems, ergo: no side-effects.)
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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And thanks for the window into a very different world view.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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ryanb31 wrote:
It does rise and set, so what was your point?
The point was made earlier. Simple observation: the sun rises and sets. Scientific observation: the earth rotates.
ryanb31 wrote:
About Columbus or something else? Then explain. How? Don't just call names, back it up.
You truly do not know that educated people had accepted that the world was spherical for over 1,500 years before Columbus?
ryanb31 wrote:
Christian, for example, says he will not believe it until science proves it.
That is quite reasonable, I don't accept anecdotal evidence as proof either. That in no way contradicts "Just because science cannot establish a causality does not mean that one does not exist."
ryanb31 wrote:
If the CDC admits that vaccines can cause brain damage
ryanb31 wrote:
However, the CDC admits they can cause brain damage.
ryanb31 wrote:
They admit it can cause brain damage.
But they don't. They merely note that these events have occurred after vaccination, and: These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine. But this happens so rarely, experts cannot be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not.
ryanb31 wrote:
That's not what is being discussed. It's the side effects.
The only difference in health being that un-vaccinated children have a higher incidence of the diseases for which they have not been vaccinated. (I.E., no increase in the incidence of brain damage, autism, or any other health problems, ergo: no side-effects.)
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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Simple observation: the sun rises and sets. Scientific observation: the earth rotates.
And, both are true. So what?
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You truly do not know that educated people had accepted that the world was spherical
Sure I do. But not those around Columbus.
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I don't accept anecdotal evidence as proof either
So, where is the proof that vaccines do not cause brain damage?
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But they don't.
Maybe English is not your native language. From the CDC site: "But the risk of a vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.", "vaccines can cause side effects", "the risk of serious harm from the vaccine is extremely small.", "The risk of DTaP vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small." I'll stop there because that is way more evidence than is necessary. No where do they say they can't cause it. They know it can. Yes, it is small chance, but it is still a chance.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote:
However, there are natural cures for the flu a
More nonsense.
ryanb31 wrote:
The CDC admits they can cause brain damage.
You said "or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine". The CDC does NOT say that.
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So, out of curiosity, how did they "prove" that autism cannot be caused by vaccines?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
There's no such thing as negative proof. It goes the other way. If vaccinations cause autism, then kids who don't have vaccinations, will have a lower incidence of autism. The people claiming a cause need to find a statistical correlation, even if they don't know the mechanism for it. This[^] gives a summary with links.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Simple observation: the sun rises and sets. Scientific observation: the earth rotates.
And, both are true. So what?
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You truly do not know that educated people had accepted that the world was spherical
Sure I do. But not those around Columbus.
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I don't accept anecdotal evidence as proof either
So, where is the proof that vaccines do not cause brain damage?
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But they don't.
Maybe English is not your native language. From the CDC site: "But the risk of a vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.", "vaccines can cause side effects", "the risk of serious harm from the vaccine is extremely small.", "The risk of DTaP vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small." I'll stop there because that is way more evidence than is necessary. No where do they say they can't cause it. They know it can. Yes, it is small chance, but it is still a chance.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
And, both are true. So what?
Simple observation: Geocentricity - i.e., the earth does not rotate.
ryanb31 wrote:
But not those around Columbus.
No. King Ferdinand's advisers turned down Columbus's proposal because they believed Columbus's sources to have underestimated the circumference of the earth (which they had), and hence the distance to India.
ryanb31 wrote:
where is the proof that vaccines do not cause brain damage?
- These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine. - But this happens so rarely, experts cannot be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. - Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. Those statements indicate that there was, at the time of publication of the Summary, no evidence that vaccines did not cause brain damage. They knew that brain damage had been reported following vaccination. They did not know if brain damage occurred because of vaccination.
ryanb31 wrote:
No where do they say they can't cause it. They know it can.
- These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine. - But this happens so rarely, experts cannot be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. - Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. Those statements indicate that there was, at the time of publication of the Summary, no evidence that vaccines caused brain damage. They knew that brain damage had been reported following vaccination. They did not know if brain damage occurred because of vaccination. Finally: Your source is merely a summary of what, at the time of publication, was known of the possible effects of various vaccines. It is not a scientific study. Would you care to provide a link to a controlled study showing brain damage due to vaccination? I would prefer a paper describing the mechanism by which the vaccine disrupted the brain. Failing that, a statistically significant correlation of vaccination and brain damage (as with smoking and lung cancer, for example).
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their
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ryanb31 wrote:
And, both are true. So what?
Simple observation: Geocentricity - i.e., the earth does not rotate.
ryanb31 wrote:
But not those around Columbus.
No. King Ferdinand's advisers turned down Columbus's proposal because they believed Columbus's sources to have underestimated the circumference of the earth (which they had), and hence the distance to India.
ryanb31 wrote:
where is the proof that vaccines do not cause brain damage?
- These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine. - But this happens so rarely, experts cannot be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. - Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. Those statements indicate that there was, at the time of publication of the Summary, no evidence that vaccines did not cause brain damage. They knew that brain damage had been reported following vaccination. They did not know if brain damage occurred because of vaccination.
ryanb31 wrote:
No where do they say they can't cause it. They know it can.
- These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine. - But this happens so rarely, experts cannot be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. - Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not. Those statements indicate that there was, at the time of publication of the Summary, no evidence that vaccines caused brain damage. They knew that brain damage had been reported following vaccination. They did not know if brain damage occurred because of vaccination. Finally: Your source is merely a summary of what, at the time of publication, was known of the possible effects of various vaccines. It is not a scientific study. Would you care to provide a link to a controlled study showing brain damage due to vaccination? I would prefer a paper describing the mechanism by which the vaccine disrupted the brain. Failing that, a statistically significant correlation of vaccination and brain damage (as with smoking and lung cancer, for example).
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their
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Your source is merely a summary of what, at the time of publication, was known of the possible effects of various vaccines.
Right, possible effects.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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There's no such thing as negative proof. It goes the other way. If vaccinations cause autism, then kids who don't have vaccinations, will have a lower incidence of autism. The people claiming a cause need to find a statistical correlation, even if they don't know the mechanism for it. This[^] gives a summary with links.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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you can't CATCH autism, nor is there any known mechanism to make it occur post birth. It's a condition of brain development ( there is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity ). As such, nothing can cause it.
You say nothing can cause it, that is definitive. Yet, you admit there may be things about it we don't know. So, where is the proof?
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but the odds of vaccination causing it, are zero. This is a proven fact.
Where is the proof? You use definitive statements but do not show the proof.
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They won't, simply because it's impossible.
This was in response to my comment about me hoping your children never get a brain disorder from vaccines. Again, you are definitive, even though the CDC admits they can cause brain damage. Where's your proof? This is now 4 times I ask for your proof. Do you have any?
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If vaccinations cause autism, then kids who don't have vaccinations, will have a lower incidence of autism.
That might be how a 6 year old sees it. First of call, if vaccines CAN cause autism. Secondly vaccines are one of the many ways we introduce chemicals into our bodies so your statement is no where near accurate. It's too simplistic.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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you can't CATCH autism, nor is there any known mechanism to make it occur post birth. It's a condition of brain development ( there is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity ). As such, nothing can cause it.
You say nothing can cause it, that is definitive. Yet, you admit there may be things about it we don't know. So, where is the proof?
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but the odds of vaccination causing it, are zero. This is a proven fact.
Where is the proof? You use definitive statements but do not show the proof.
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They won't, simply because it's impossible.
This was in response to my comment about me hoping your children never get a brain disorder from vaccines. Again, you are definitive, even though the CDC admits they can cause brain damage. Where's your proof? This is now 4 times I ask for your proof. Do you have any?
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If vaccinations cause autism, then kids who don't have vaccinations, will have a lower incidence of autism.
That might be how a 6 year old sees it. First of call, if vaccines CAN cause autism. Secondly vaccines are one of the many ways we introduce chemicals into our bodies so your statement is no where near accurate. It's too simplistic.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
You say nothing can cause it, that is definitive. Yet, you admit there may be things about it we don't know. So, where is the proof?
You always look for negative proof. The fact is, there is no causality known, and it's know what autism is, it's know that it's in how the brain is structured. The brain does not restructure itself. You can't make someone gay any more than you can make them autistic.
ryanb31 wrote:
Where is the proof? You use definitive statements but do not show the proof.
I linked to some of it.
ryanb31 wrote:
This was in response to my comment about me hoping your children never get a brain disorder from vaccines. Again, you are definitive, even though the CDC admits they can cause brain damage
1 - brain damage is not autism 2 - if you look at the link you gave me, it says that there is an accepted possibility of risk, even though the risk is so small that it's impossible to get enough data to say that vaccines are in fact the cause. You're taking science, cherry picking half sentences, and misreading them.
ryanb31 wrote:
This is now 4 times I ask for your proof. Do you have any?
I don't need proof, you do. You're making a claim. I am rejecting it for lack of proof.
ryanb31 wrote:
That might be how a 6 year old sees it
This is the bit that blows my mind. How can you claim that autism is CAUSED by vaccinations, but not see that if this is true, then vaccinated kids MUST have more autism ? If long term alcohol use causes memory loss, then the proof is that long term drinkers have more memory loss. If they don't, then why not, if alcohol should be causing it ? That's just basic common sense, which is why, as you say, even a 6 year old can see it.
ryanb31 wrote:
First of call, if vaccines CAN cause autism.
Wrong. Proven wrong, time and again. The person who claimed it, was a liar, trying to sell his own vaccine. He didn't claim that any vaccine could cause it, but a certain one that he wanted out of business. Read the link I sent.
ryanb31 wrote:
Secondly vaccines are one of the many ways we introduce chemicals into our bodies so your statemen
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ryanb31 wrote:
You say nothing can cause it, that is definitive. Yet, you admit there may be things about it we don't know. So, where is the proof?
You always look for negative proof. The fact is, there is no causality known, and it's know what autism is, it's know that it's in how the brain is structured. The brain does not restructure itself. You can't make someone gay any more than you can make them autistic.
ryanb31 wrote:
Where is the proof? You use definitive statements but do not show the proof.
I linked to some of it.
ryanb31 wrote:
This was in response to my comment about me hoping your children never get a brain disorder from vaccines. Again, you are definitive, even though the CDC admits they can cause brain damage
1 - brain damage is not autism 2 - if you look at the link you gave me, it says that there is an accepted possibility of risk, even though the risk is so small that it's impossible to get enough data to say that vaccines are in fact the cause. You're taking science, cherry picking half sentences, and misreading them.
ryanb31 wrote:
This is now 4 times I ask for your proof. Do you have any?
I don't need proof, you do. You're making a claim. I am rejecting it for lack of proof.
ryanb31 wrote:
That might be how a 6 year old sees it
This is the bit that blows my mind. How can you claim that autism is CAUSED by vaccinations, but not see that if this is true, then vaccinated kids MUST have more autism ? If long term alcohol use causes memory loss, then the proof is that long term drinkers have more memory loss. If they don't, then why not, if alcohol should be causing it ? That's just basic common sense, which is why, as you say, even a 6 year old can see it.
ryanb31 wrote:
First of call, if vaccines CAN cause autism.
Wrong. Proven wrong, time and again. The person who claimed it, was a liar, trying to sell his own vaccine. He didn't claim that any vaccine could cause it, but a certain one that he wanted out of business. Read the link I sent.
ryanb31 wrote:
Secondly vaccines are one of the many ways we introduce chemicals into our bodies so your statemen
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You always look for negative proof.
You made the claim. I'm just asking you for proof. Are you not used to people asking you to back up your claims?
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I linked to some of it.
That was not proof. The link was about one specific type of vaccine and one specific type of brain disorder. Is that all the "proof" you have?
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I don't need proof, you do. You're making a claim. I am rejecting it for lack of proof.
I just gave you 3 of YOUR quotes where you made claims and so I ask for proof, and yet here I am, still waiting for it.
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If long term alcohol use causes memory loss, then the proof is that long term drinkers have more memory loss. If they don't, then why not, if alcohol should be causing it ?
Because there are an infinite number of other things that can cause memory loss. As an example, if there are 100 things that can cause memory loss, long term drinking one of them, and for whatever reason drinkers tend to only participate in 10 of the 100 items yet non-drinkers, for whatever reason, on average participate in 20 of the 100 items the non-drinkers will have a higher incidence. This is just an example but you keep speaking in definitives that are incorrect. So, keep it simple. I ask you what proof is there that vaccines cannot cause brain damage and all you have is "negative proof." If that is the case, I got some miracle liquid I want to sell you because no one has proved it is bad yet. You'll buy, right?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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You always look for negative proof.
You made the claim. I'm just asking you for proof. Are you not used to people asking you to back up your claims?
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I linked to some of it.
That was not proof. The link was about one specific type of vaccine and one specific type of brain disorder. Is that all the "proof" you have?
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I don't need proof, you do. You're making a claim. I am rejecting it for lack of proof.
I just gave you 3 of YOUR quotes where you made claims and so I ask for proof, and yet here I am, still waiting for it.
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If long term alcohol use causes memory loss, then the proof is that long term drinkers have more memory loss. If they don't, then why not, if alcohol should be causing it ?
Because there are an infinite number of other things that can cause memory loss. As an example, if there are 100 things that can cause memory loss, long term drinking one of them, and for whatever reason drinkers tend to only participate in 10 of the 100 items yet non-drinkers, for whatever reason, on average participate in 20 of the 100 items the non-drinkers will have a higher incidence. This is just an example but you keep speaking in definitives that are incorrect. So, keep it simple. I ask you what proof is there that vaccines cannot cause brain damage and all you have is "negative proof." If that is the case, I got some miracle liquid I want to sell you because no one has proved it is bad yet. You'll buy, right?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
You made the claim. I'm just asking you for proof. Are you not used to people asking you to back up your claims?
You're the one making claims. I am refuting them. I provided a link to back up my claim that your claim is bogus, but the onus of proof is on you. You claim xxx. I say it's not proven. You fail to offer proof. I don't need to disprove your claim, you need to prove it.
ryanb31 wrote:
That was not proof. The link was about one specific type of vaccine and one specific type of brain disorder. Is that all the "proof" you have?
Again, there's a tiny bit of evidence that some vaccinations might be implicated in some brain damage. You blow this fact out of all proportion, then tell me I need to prove you are wrong, when you can't prove you are right.
ryanb31 wrote:
I just gave you 3 of YOUR quotes where you made claims and so I ask for proof, and yet here I am, still waiting for it.
I am confused. Are you really a programmer ? You're showing a complete lack of understanding of logic. Your claim, your onus for proof.
ryanb31 wrote:
Because there are an infinite number of other things that can cause memory loss. As an example, if there are 100 things that can cause memory loss, long term drinking one of them, and for whatever reason drinkers tend to only participate in 10 of the 100 items yet non-drinkers, for whatever reason, on average participate in 20 of the 100 items the non-drinkers will have a higher incidence. This is just an example but you keep speaking in definitives that are incorrect.
This is not an example, it's vague waffle. This is why a large sample is needed, and the lack of a large sample ( because of the rarity of brain damage ) is the reason the claim for brain damage caused by vaccinations is so vague. A large sample will normalise for other potential differences.
ryanb31 wrote:
I ask you what proof is there that vaccines cannot cause brain damage
By your standards, my kids have been vaccinated and have no brain damage. That is as much proof as your claim based on observation and assumption.
ryanb31 wrote:
If that is the case, I got some miracle liquid I want to sell you because no one has proved