What exactly doesn't work?
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Let's see: - Create Apps distributable through Windows Store --- Like I care - Support for Near Field Communication[^] --- Like I care - Store your profile in the cloud, sharing your settings and files on multiple computers that have acces to the internet --- Don't care, and don't trust, and don't want to - Taskbar on each Monitor. YAY! Separate wallpapers for each monitor out of the box. Double YAY! --- Ultramon, anyone? - Explorer now has an "Up" button again! TRIPLE YAY! --- There are so many plugins for that! - Preview improved. They say. --- Don't use it. - Mount ISO, IMG, VHD in explorer --- Not a feature I need - Pretty shiny task manager --- Argh. Something new to learn - Faster reinstall when your boot times go down the drain! Ha! Take that! --- HAHAHAHA! That's a bandaid, not a fix. - USB 3.0 (ugh) --- Whatever - Hyper-V on board --- What's that? - ReFS and Storage Spaces --- What's that? Need I say more? ;) Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Need I say more?
No, of course not. If you please just would shake your cane and shout something about whippersnappers, so we would be done here. :cool:
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchy -
Marc Clifton wrote:
Need I say more?
No, of course not. If you please just would shake your cane and shout something about whippersnappers, so we would be done here. :cool:
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchypeterchen wrote:
If you please just would shake your cane and shout something about whippersnappers
I'll keep that in mind. :) Marc
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..because your locked in the Windows-environment, and need to update just like the rest. You could try and run all your old code in Windows 1, but there's little chance that it would work. Alternatively, you could switch to Linux - but that might be a bit more expensive.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
For me that will be a lot more expensive. Finding out how to get things to work will cost me more than buying Win 8. No jokes
____________________________________________________________ Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave
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Why do I need to fork out for yet another operating system?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
There has been many good posts, my 5c worth: I think Win 8 is a good advance in technology but none of the advances have direct benefits for me so I'll probably hold back. I love the boot up time, and general better performance, if it holds I'll probably get the upgrade. So far I've mostly ignored the Metro / Modern UI, don't hate it though, has potential ---Edit--- Also love the better integration between devices, now I just need to get my Win 8 phone and / or Surface Pro :)
____________________________________________________________ Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave
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..because your locked in the Windows-environment, and need to update just like the rest. You could try and run all your old code in Windows 1, but there's little chance that it would work. Alternatively, you could switch to Linux - but that might be a bit more expensive.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
That's the slippery slope fallacy - like there's anybody using Windows 1 today. You state that I would need to update - I don't. Windows 7 just works, and while the engine of Windows 8 has been improved under the hood, the interface is appalling and would have hindered me to do some of my most basic tasks, had I had any intention of buying it - which, again, I don't.
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Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer... :-D
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer...
Oh, thanks for that. I was humming the bluddy song all last evening.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Why do I need to fork out for yet another operating system?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
It looks like, although there are a few minor pros, there are minor cons to balance them. I can't see a killer reason to upgrade from Win 7, or a killer reason to invest in Win 8 at all, to be honest, unless it is to be installed on a portable/touch device. I truly don't understand why the-interface-formerly-known-as-metro has been integrated into the PC-environment OS. I doubt very much that apple considered integrating iphone/ipad interface tech into their desktops/laptops, because it simply makes no sense. You might as well integrate car fuel-consumption management software in the OS, so that you only need a single installation disc to install on anything. Oh, well. Win 9 will probably be along before the next three busses get here, so I'll wait for that one, with the hope that more substantial improvements are made for the PC environment.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Why do I need to fork out for yet another operating system?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark is a wise man. He has good args. You should all listen to him. My bet is that he also skipped the XP to Vista sell, and went from xp to W7. Let all the eager find and have the problems and then invest when the OS is more mature and stable. Also beware because he has a blunt bread knife...
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Why do I need to fork out for yet another operating system?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
So I assume you are still using your first cell phone? But seriously, windows has had, actually, a remarkable longevity. It wasn't until last August that more computers in the US had Windows 7 vs. XP, a 12-year-old operating system. Forking out for Windows isn't exactly something you have to do on a regular basis... if only I could get away with replacing my cell phone as often as I updgrade Windows.
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I'm not scared of it, but there has to be a tangible, calculable return on the investment of time and money. i.e. OK, Microsoft, I'll give you my money, but what do I get for it that I wouldn't have if I didn't give it to you? Better start-up speed and performance? That won't last. An extra interface, which is designed for devices that I won't be installing the OS on? Not what I'd call a profit. More stuff using the flatulent interface? That goes in the loss column. What is there? Where's the profit? What will I gain from this investment? You say that if I don't need it, I shouldn't buy it, but how am I supposed to make an assessment of need if no-one will talk straight, in unbiased and un-shock-horror tones, about the pros and cons?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Well, the following are a few of the non-performance related improvements. There's many more, but really I can't be bothered to do your googling for you. Improved Task Manager Improved File Copy Dialog Improved support for multiple monitors Secure Boot (protects vs root kits)
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Let's see: - Create Apps distributable through Windows Store --- Like I care - Support for Near Field Communication[^] --- Like I care - Store your profile in the cloud, sharing your settings and files on multiple computers that have acces to the internet --- Don't care, and don't trust, and don't want to - Taskbar on each Monitor. YAY! Separate wallpapers for each monitor out of the box. Double YAY! --- Ultramon, anyone? - Explorer now has an "Up" button again! TRIPLE YAY! --- There are so many plugins for that! - Preview improved. They say. --- Don't use it. - Mount ISO, IMG, VHD in explorer --- Not a feature I need - Pretty shiny task manager --- Argh. Something new to learn - Faster reinstall when your boot times go down the drain! Ha! Take that! --- HAHAHAHA! That's a bandaid, not a fix. - USB 3.0 (ugh) --- Whatever - Hyper-V on board --- What's that? - ReFS and Storage Spaces --- What's that? Need I say more? ;) Marc
I used to use ultramon but in all honesty the taskbars were always buggy for me, to the point i eventually just lived without it, after using windows 8 for a few months now on the preview releases, the new taskbars in windows actually feel like they work correctly apart from one pretty major point, for some reason some applications do not correctly move to the second taskbar in some situations (when you have the setting which enables only programs open on each screen show up on that screens taskbar). Specifically WinSCP and Mircosoft office applications both break this functionality, I would hope office would be fixed for the final release though. but apps on the taskbar on the screen they actually relate to is more than just a huge plus for me, its a game changer, for £25 I would pay for this feature on its own.
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Well, the following are a few of the non-performance related improvements. There's many more, but really I can't be bothered to do your googling for you. Improved Task Manager Improved File Copy Dialog Improved support for multiple monitors Secure Boot (protects vs root kits)
Rob Grainger wrote:
There's many more, but really I can't be bothered to do your googling for you.
This isn't about googling for the opinions of people who are biased by personal preference or in favour of what goes well with the limited use they make of their machines; it's about asking software professionals what they think is useful and/or not so. For example, if I look at one search result, it says, as you have: - Improved Task Manager - Improved File Copy Dialog Then I look at another, to find: - f***ed-up Task Manager - f***ed-up File Copy Dialog And both are written by people who appear to spend all their time writing blogs that are focused on saying how great they/members of their peer group/their preferred OS providers are. They don't say a single word that carries the kind of value I'm looking for. I'm a professional, asking professionals for their opinions. If your professional opinion is that a lmgtfy answer is appropriate, then perhaps you're not acting quite as professionally as you might.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'm not scared of it, but there has to be a tangible, calculable return on the investment of time and money. i.e. OK, Microsoft, I'll give you my money, but what do I get for it that I wouldn't have if I didn't give it to you? Better start-up speed and performance? That won't last. An extra interface, which is designed for devices that I won't be installing the OS on? Not what I'd call a profit. More stuff using the flatulent interface? That goes in the loss column. What is there? Where's the profit? What will I gain from this investment? You say that if I don't need it, I shouldn't buy it, but how am I supposed to make an assessment of need if no-one will talk straight, in unbiased and un-shock-horror tones, about the pros and cons?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
I'm not scared of it, but there has to be a tangible, calculable return on the investment of time and money.
Concur.
Mark Wallace wrote:
i.e. OK, Microsoft, I'll give you my money, but what do I get for it that I wouldn't have if I didn't give it to you?
Better start-up speed and performance? That won't last.
An extra interface, which is designed for devices that I won't be installing the OS on? Not what I'd call a profit.
More stuff using the flatulent interface? That goes in the loss column.
What is there? Where's the profit? What will I gain from this investment?You pretty much just have to look at the feature set and filter it through your needs/desires. Try it in a VM on your machine - that will give you a heads-up on whether the thing would suit you or not.
Mark Wallace wrote:
You say that if I don't need it, I shouldn't buy it, but how am I supposed to make an assessment of need if no-one will talk straight, in unbiased and un-shock-horror tones, about the pros and cons?
As I just said, only you can determine the real pros and cons for your situation. Personally I have no use for the thing myself. -CB
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Why do I need to fork out for yet another operating system?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
You won't need to "fork out" much. And it can be tried-out for free. "If your current PC is running any of the three latest Windows operating systems, you'll be able to upgrade to Windows 8 for $39.99." http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-windows-8-registration-opens-20120821,0,542531.story[^]
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Mark is a wise man. He has good args. You should all listen to him. My bet is that he also skipped the XP to Vista sell, and went from xp to W7. Let all the eager find and have the problems and then invest when the OS is more mature and stable. Also beware because he has a blunt bread knife...
grralph1 wrote:
My bet is that he also skipped the XP to Vista sell, and went from xp to W7
Actually, I do have a Vista machine, and am so happy with it that I still use it as one of my main machines (it had pretty huge specs, for the time, so the performance problems that a lot of people encountered weren't an issue). But even Vista included several major changes/enhancements that could be proponed in favour of the upgrade. I just can't see anything that big or worthy in Win 8. Win 7 most certainly cannot be defined as broken. What have they fixed?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You won't need to "fork out" much. And it can be tried-out for free. "If your current PC is running any of the three latest Windows operating systems, you'll be able to upgrade to Windows 8 for $39.99." http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-windows-8-registration-opens-20120821,0,542531.story[^]
It's the time and effort that cost the most. If all I get for Win 8 is slightly better performance, I'll do better to just buy another batch of new motherboards/chips. That might cost more than upgrading the OS, but the cost is almost negligible, compared to the cost of the time and effort it would take to get everything working as I need it. It takes less time to install a motherboard than it does to install a substantial application, not to mention the amount of time it takes to configure everything in the app to the way you're used to and/or need.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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- Create Apps distributable through Windows Store - Support for Near Field Communication[^] - Store your profile in the cloud, sharing your settings and files on multiple computers that have acces to the internet - Taskbar on each Monitor. YAY! Separate wallpapers for each monitor out of the box. Double YAY! - Explorer now has an "Up" button again! TRIPLE YAY! - Preview improved. They say. - Mount ISO, IMG, VHD in explorer - Pretty shiny task manager - Faster reinstall when your boot times go down the drain! Ha! Take that! - USB 3.0 (ugh) - Hyper-V on board - ReFS and Storage Spaces
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchypeterchen wrote:
- Create Apps distributable through Windows Store
That may generate that extra buck for creating software people don't need.
peterchen wrote:
- Explorer now has an "Up" button again! TRIPLE YAY!
Oh, how much I've missed that one.
peterchen wrote:
- Mount ISO, IMG, VHD in explorer
Handy!
peterchen wrote:
- Pretty shiny task manager
Well, it couldn't get any worse than it was.
peterchen wrote:
- USB 3.0 (ugh)
My USB 3.0 ports weren't using 3.0 bandwitch?
peterchen wrote:
- ReFS and Storage Spaces
Still have to assess the advantages of it, but I welcome FS improvements.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Why do I need to fork out for yet another operating system?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I'll give you my no BS, been using it since it was released to MSDN full time, reasons why I switched to Windows 8 and am not looking back: (in no particular order) 1) I like the new start screen. I can pin what I want and exclude what I don't. But anything I don't want to see all the time is just a few search keystrokes away. And custom grouping is nice too. And those live tiles are handy as hell. 2) I can use Desktop apps and Windows 8 UI apps (I like the freedom to choose) 3) Hyper-V ready and waiting is a huge plus for me. 4) I have gained an extra 30 minutes of battery life. (That is a big deal to me) 5) The Charms menu at first was a little weird, but once I got the hang of when to use it and why, it's a massive time saver. 6) The ability to reinstall quickly without loosing data sounds great on paper, but since I actually had to use it on day 2 I can tell you it's a far better feature in reality than it sounds. 7) I use Zune Pass and have an XBOX, the integration there is really nice. (Granted the music app could be less focused on Zune (Xbox) music and a little more focused on my personal collection but that's me nit picking) 8) The new desktop look is great, but I always thought Aero Glass was just a way to waste CPU cycles with out any real gain. 9) The improved Explorer eliminates the menu bloat it had in older versions. In 7 unhiding the extensions of known file types first requires you to a) know hitting alt will reveal the menu. b) then opening a dialog, changing tabs, and scrolling down and then unchecking the box. In 8, 1 click on a check box in the View tab on the ribbon. How about sharing, in 7 it's mostly context menu stuff. In 8 whether I want to email, burn, print or network share it's all on the Share tab. 10) The improved Task Manager not only looks pretty, but has startup apps and services management baked in as well. All in one place. 11) Shadow copy has gotten a massive boot in the ass. I have felt it was a neglected feature in Windows for a few versions now. Now it's very much available and much easier to use effectively. (now it's called File Versions) So there you go, there are 11 reasons I love Windows 8 (off the top of my head, I am sure I can come up with some more)
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Rob Grainger wrote:
There's many more, but really I can't be bothered to do your googling for you.
This isn't about googling for the opinions of people who are biased by personal preference or in favour of what goes well with the limited use they make of their machines; it's about asking software professionals what they think is useful and/or not so. For example, if I look at one search result, it says, as you have: - Improved Task Manager - Improved File Copy Dialog Then I look at another, to find: - f***ed-up Task Manager - f***ed-up File Copy Dialog And both are written by people who appear to spend all their time writing blogs that are focused on saying how great they/members of their peer group/their preferred OS providers are. They don't say a single word that carries the kind of value I'm looking for. I'm a professional, asking professionals for their opinions. If your professional opinion is that a lmgtfy answer is appropriate, then perhaps you're not acting quite as professionally as you might.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
As a professional I can see nothing wrong with Win 8. It is much faster and the apps we write run better on it. Marginally better, but better non the less. The huge brouhaha centers around the interface which seems to evoke strong reactions especially among desktop developers. The reality is that a shrinkwrapped app, like ours, simply installs as usual and its desktop presence is an icon within a tile. Click the tile and the app starts and runs. There is no need whatsoever to program to the whole-window "Metro" sytle if you don't want to. And there is a slew of new hot-keys that can help improve your productivity. Whether you adopt it personally, I think, depends on your user base. If you think your users will adopt it, then you should as well; if only to be able to support their use of your product. It's a good, working and workable product. Definitely no Vista. But it is not a "Must have". Hope this helps.
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Why do I need to fork out for yet another operating system?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
The Pause Copy Button!! Sorry for the excitement, it's just that I've been waiting for it for twelve years now.