The Language/Coding proposition
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I stumbled upon this thread in the Suggestions forum : http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4387427/Insults-are-not-welcome.aspx[^] And that got me thinking about how language ability and coding skills are the 2 major factors that affect how people get treated online. Well, there’s no score/ranking here really but I’ve formulated this theory on what makes someone popular in a technical/geek forum (like CodeProject, StackOverflow, or say Reddit). In my observations, it seems to be directly related to a combination of your language ability (not just grammar, but the ability to use humor and sarcasm to good effect) and your technological competency. Here’s a venn-diagram of sorts that tries to explain this better: http://i.imgur.com/fHExJ.png[^] 2 : represents people who have great language/humor/verbosity. 3: represents technology gurus with extreme coding skills. 4: represents the intersection of 2 and 3. 1: represents those with neither language skills or technical ability. Now, people in 2 and 3 (but not in 4) usually get along okay. Here on CP we have a fair number of category-2 people who can write well, express complex ideas succinctly, and possess incredible senses of humor, but who are very ordinary programmers. They are popular. We also have a number of category-3 people, mostly from non-native (English) countries who are very good at coding/technology and who answer a lot of Q-A threads. They are fairly popular too despite the fact that many of them write with the verbosity/grammar of a 6 year old. Then we have the rock-stars like Christian and Pete who are category-4, that most elite of forum classifications. These folks are revered and held in the absolute highest esteem. So, what does this leave us with? Well folks who can’t code, and whose English expressing abilities are severely lacking. While it sounds unfair, it’s best if these people try and work on at least one of these skills before venturing out to these sites, unless they possess really thick skins and are prepared to learn and improve amidst a showering of insults and abuses. Opinions welcome...
Regards, Nish
My technology blog:
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Off-topic. You work for SAP now, huh? Nice!
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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You could just say Lounge Lizards vs Article Writers. I think it is an assumption that those who don't actively write articles or live in QA are not excellent coders, I know many who save that for their paying job.
wizardzz wrote:
I think it is an assumption that those who don't actively write articles or live in QA are not excellent coders, I know many who save that for their paying job.
Well, I wasn't referring to anyone's article count, but you can infer someone's tech skills based on how they talk about programming. Unless someone tries really hard to hide his abilities. :-)
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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So you moved from Redmond to somewhere else [Boston/New York/somewhere around there]?
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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wizardzz wrote:
I think it is an assumption that those who don't actively write articles or live in QA are not excellent coders, I know many who save that for their paying job.
Well, I wasn't referring to anyone's article count, but you can infer someone's tech skills based on how they talk about programming. Unless someone tries really hard to hide his abilities. :-)
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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wizardzz wrote:
I think it is an assumption that those who don't actively write articles or live in QA are not excellent coders, I know many who save that for their paying job.
Well, I wasn't referring to anyone's article count, but you can infer someone's tech skills based on how they talk about programming. Unless someone tries really hard to hide his abilities. :-)
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Nish Sivakumar wrote:
Unless someone tries really hard to hide his abilities
Just like me, I'm desperately hoping no-one finds out I haven't got a clue what I'm doing. Although that is at work, not on CP.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
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Rage wrote:
DeathByChocolate wrote:
Just pointing out that my sex is probably the most memorable thing about me
Well what can I say ... :-\
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
<serious mode>For me, the fact that you are a compulsive chocolate addict with a sharp humor (just kidding) and have made some epic pun battles with Dave is what makes you stand out.</serious> And also the fact that you're a girl. :rolleyes:
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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You never realized her gender ? Just pick up _any_ thread involving some posts between her and DD, and you cannot be mistaken.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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Nish Sivakumar wrote:
but you can infer someone's tech skills based on how they talk about programming.
Isn't there some sort of bias here, based on language then, which is supposed to be mutually exclusive?
wizardzz wrote:
Isn't there some sort of bias here, based on language then, which is supposed to be mutually exclusive?
Well, we can only make guesses based on available data. If a beautiful woman hides her face with a veil, then she shouldn't complain when she's not categorized as beautiful. [my analogies are usually rather horrible, so don't be surprised]
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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Nish Sivakumar wrote:
Unless someone tries really hard to hide his abilities
Just like me, I'm desperately hoping no-one finds out I haven't got a clue what I'm doing. Although that is at work, not on CP.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
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<serious mode>For me, the fact that you are a compulsive chocolate addict with a sharp humor (just kidding) and have made some epic pun battles with Dave is what makes you stand out.</serious> And also the fact that you're a girl. :rolleyes:
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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Nish Sivakumar wrote:
Unless someone tries really hard to hide his abilities
Just like me, I'm desperately hoping no-one finds out I haven't got a clue what I'm doing. Although that is at work, not on CP.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
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Ignore previous reply. Just saw on your profile that you are in Boston now. :doh:
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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<serious mode>For me, the fact that you are a compulsive chocolate addict with a sharp humor (just kidding) and have made some epic pun battles with Dave is what makes you stand out.</serious> And also the fact that you're a girl. :rolleyes:
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
Rage wrote:
a compulsive chocolate addict with a sharp humor
:thumbsup: Excellent - that's sums me up I hope .... at least the chocolate bit anyway. :-D
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
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Rage wrote:
And also the fact that you're a girl. :rolleyes:
With breasts (tee hee)
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
ChrisElston wrote:
With breasts
Yes I have AND I've got them where ever I go ... ;)
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
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wizardzz wrote:
Isn't there some sort of bias here, based on language then, which is supposed to be mutually exclusive?
Well, we can only make guesses based on available data. If a beautiful woman hides her face with a veil, then she shouldn't complain when she's not categorized as beautiful. [my analogies are usually rather horrible, so don't be surprised]
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Your analogy is accurate and does admit to a sort of bias via presentation. I guess what I was saying is, you have 2 major traits- language + programming. So how exactly do you measure programming skill on the site, when it's dependent on language? Also, another a concern is that those with the time to contribute to articles and answers might not hold jobs with major time sensitivities. So, perhaps those that contribute a bunch and present outward skill, are just those that have the time and motivation.
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Ignore previous reply. Just saw on your profile that you are in Boston now. :doh:
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
I was in Boston even when I worked at MS. This office[^].
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Your analogy is accurate and does admit to a sort of bias via presentation. I guess what I was saying is, you have 2 major traits- language + programming. So how exactly do you measure programming skill on the site, when it's dependent on language? Also, another a concern is that those with the time to contribute to articles and answers might not hold jobs with major time sensitivities. So, perhaps those that contribute a bunch and present outward skill, are just those that have the time and motivation.
wizardzz wrote:
Also, another a concern is that those with the time to contribute to articles and answers might not hold jobs with major time sensitivities. So, perhaps those that contribute a bunch and present outward skill, are just those that have the time and motivation.
Quite true, I am very often surprised by the amounts of time some of the top contributors spend on the tech forums here. I assume most of them have day-jobs with lots of free-time/flexibility. And as for judging someone’s technical skills when he/she has a language limitation, it can be fairly tricky. Sometimes a weaker candidate can seem more skilled than a stronger candidate if the weaker guy can present his information better.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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I was in Boston even when I worked at MS. This office[^].
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I stumbled upon this thread in the Suggestions forum : http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4387427/Insults-are-not-welcome.aspx[^] And that got me thinking about how language ability and coding skills are the 2 major factors that affect how people get treated online. Well, there’s no score/ranking here really but I’ve formulated this theory on what makes someone popular in a technical/geek forum (like CodeProject, StackOverflow, or say Reddit). In my observations, it seems to be directly related to a combination of your language ability (not just grammar, but the ability to use humor and sarcasm to good effect) and your technological competency. Here’s a venn-diagram of sorts that tries to explain this better: http://i.imgur.com/fHExJ.png[^] 2 : represents people who have great language/humor/verbosity. 3: represents technology gurus with extreme coding skills. 4: represents the intersection of 2 and 3. 1: represents those with neither language skills or technical ability. Now, people in 2 and 3 (but not in 4) usually get along okay. Here on CP we have a fair number of category-2 people who can write well, express complex ideas succinctly, and possess incredible senses of humor, but who are very ordinary programmers. They are popular. We also have a number of category-3 people, mostly from non-native (English) countries who are very good at coding/technology and who answer a lot of Q-A threads. They are fairly popular too despite the fact that many of them write with the verbosity/grammar of a 6 year old. Then we have the rock-stars like Christian and Pete who are category-4, that most elite of forum classifications. These folks are revered and held in the absolute highest esteem. So, what does this leave us with? Well folks who can’t code, and whose English expressing abilities are severely lacking. While it sounds unfair, it’s best if these people try and work on at least one of these skills before venturing out to these sites, unless they possess really thick skins and are prepared to learn and improve amidst a showering of insults and abuses. Opinions welcome...
Regards, Nish
My technology blog:
I don't think these are the only factors, there are bone-idle people out there too, and those that simply shouldn't be programming (lets call it lackaprogrammability). On my degree course in the UK we had two people come out with diplomas (rather than the MSc they started). One, a lackaprogrammabilityista must have submitted a good 90% of the "hard subject" coursework consisting of a patchwork composite of various bits'o'help he garnered from students. The other (bone-idle) pretty much flirted her way into getting other people into just doing her work for her. If my experience in the Middle East is anything to go by there is a much higher proportion people in these categories. The educational system over there exacerbates the problem: questions are dumbed down; exam results are at the discretion of the examiner (a common one was for a student to come to me with a poor grade in their first exam, and try and get me to "cancel it" if they showed improvement in second - unthinkable in the UK) and as the examiner is assessed on grades, they are lenient; the dissertations are designed to look impressive but be facile (e.g. tying together APIs for more complicated tasks to form an impressive whole tied together with relatively simple code) and suffer from many of the same problems as the exams. Net result: many students graduating with degrees who wouldn't be able to pass the entry exams for a UK undergrad degree. That said, there were some little gems in the pack too, just enough to make the process worthwhile. The real problem is sifting between the bone-idle/lackaprogrammability people (though I am inclined to help the latter) and those who are having genuine problems with their English.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]
