Which browsers should I support?
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I decided to post here instead of the web forum to get more opinions. My boss has asked me to come up with a 'browser support strategy' that covers both internal projects and external projects. The reason for this is mostly: in a just released a public web site we are getting feedback like "this doesn't look right on my Kindle Fire" there is too much white space at the top (or whatever). The problem is that we could chew up the rest of our careers responding to this if we aren't careful - currently the person in charge says 'we should support all mobile devices out there' and we have spent hours on stuff that (in my opinion) we shouldn't have. We are getting some loaner devices so we can at least see for ourselves what the problem is (rather than rely on an email description of what's wrong - that's an improvement. We have to support IE7 because of the number of users on it within our organization - I'd love to ditch it but people are only moving off about 0.5% per month and it has a 30% share of current page hits. All help is appreciated. I searched and haven't find anything relevant except a graded browser support idea that I found at yuilibrary.com. My current thought is to have categories like: A = we will fix it if something looks wrong, QA will test these browsers B = it only has to look roughly the same as tier A, we will only fix it if something is missing or doesn't work, QA does NOT test these browsers C = These are considered rare browser platforms and users should not expect them to work. If money is provided to support a specific broser in the category we can do it, but it will not be supported ongoing (if it works now and breaks in a month we will not fix the break). F = These are antiquated browsers which are not supported for any reason Do any of you have a browser list that you target support for? Any recommendations? (Aside from drop IE7 - we're working on that battle) Comments on how to word my ABCF scale and what should be in it are welcome also. Thanks, -Chris C. EDIT: Example of Tier "F" would be IE6, IE5.5, etc.)
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I decided to post here instead of the web forum to get more opinions. My boss has asked me to come up with a 'browser support strategy' that covers both internal projects and external projects. The reason for this is mostly: in a just released a public web site we are getting feedback like "this doesn't look right on my Kindle Fire" there is too much white space at the top (or whatever). The problem is that we could chew up the rest of our careers responding to this if we aren't careful - currently the person in charge says 'we should support all mobile devices out there' and we have spent hours on stuff that (in my opinion) we shouldn't have. We are getting some loaner devices so we can at least see for ourselves what the problem is (rather than rely on an email description of what's wrong - that's an improvement. We have to support IE7 because of the number of users on it within our organization - I'd love to ditch it but people are only moving off about 0.5% per month and it has a 30% share of current page hits. All help is appreciated. I searched and haven't find anything relevant except a graded browser support idea that I found at yuilibrary.com. My current thought is to have categories like: A = we will fix it if something looks wrong, QA will test these browsers B = it only has to look roughly the same as tier A, we will only fix it if something is missing or doesn't work, QA does NOT test these browsers C = These are considered rare browser platforms and users should not expect them to work. If money is provided to support a specific broser in the category we can do it, but it will not be supported ongoing (if it works now and breaks in a month we will not fix the break). F = These are antiquated browsers which are not supported for any reason Do any of you have a browser list that you target support for? Any recommendations? (Aside from drop IE7 - we're working on that battle) Comments on how to word my ABCF scale and what should be in it are welcome also. Thanks, -Chris C. EDIT: Example of Tier "F" would be IE6, IE5.5, etc.)
IMHO, I would suggest instead of claiming by 'browser names', we can debate by 'browser families'. I mean, instead of talking as 'IE', 'Firefox' and 'Chrome', how about having a compatibility based on the underlying engines like 'Trident', 'Gecko' and 'WebKit'. That way, as an immediate advantage if WebKit-compatible, then most of the mobile browsers, Chrome and Safari (on desktop) fall in line. IE had been a GECKO descendant till IE 5.5 and it is unfortunate that they took a proprietary and bug-ridden route of Trident.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep! -
I decided to post here instead of the web forum to get more opinions. My boss has asked me to come up with a 'browser support strategy' that covers both internal projects and external projects. The reason for this is mostly: in a just released a public web site we are getting feedback like "this doesn't look right on my Kindle Fire" there is too much white space at the top (or whatever). The problem is that we could chew up the rest of our careers responding to this if we aren't careful - currently the person in charge says 'we should support all mobile devices out there' and we have spent hours on stuff that (in my opinion) we shouldn't have. We are getting some loaner devices so we can at least see for ourselves what the problem is (rather than rely on an email description of what's wrong - that's an improvement. We have to support IE7 because of the number of users on it within our organization - I'd love to ditch it but people are only moving off about 0.5% per month and it has a 30% share of current page hits. All help is appreciated. I searched and haven't find anything relevant except a graded browser support idea that I found at yuilibrary.com. My current thought is to have categories like: A = we will fix it if something looks wrong, QA will test these browsers B = it only has to look roughly the same as tier A, we will only fix it if something is missing or doesn't work, QA does NOT test these browsers C = These are considered rare browser platforms and users should not expect them to work. If money is provided to support a specific broser in the category we can do it, but it will not be supported ongoing (if it works now and breaks in a month we will not fix the break). F = These are antiquated browsers which are not supported for any reason Do any of you have a browser list that you target support for? Any recommendations? (Aside from drop IE7 - we're working on that battle) Comments on how to word my ABCF scale and what should be in it are welcome also. Thanks, -Chris C. EDIT: Example of Tier "F" would be IE6, IE5.5, etc.)
I would think you'd take a look at the browser popularity statistics and decide what % of the potential users you want to support based on that. For example, Safari 4 only has a .1% market share, and is probably not worth additional effort, but Safari 5 is around 4% and may be worth some effort.
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IMHO, I would suggest instead of claiming by 'browser names', we can debate by 'browser families'. I mean, instead of talking as 'IE', 'Firefox' and 'Chrome', how about having a compatibility based on the underlying engines like 'Trident', 'Gecko' and 'WebKit'. That way, as an immediate advantage if WebKit-compatible, then most of the mobile browsers, Chrome and Safari (on desktop) fall in line. IE had been a GECKO descendant till IE 5.5 and it is unfortunate that they took a proprietary and bug-ridden route of Trident.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep!Reasonable strategy. :thumbsup:
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I decided to post here instead of the web forum to get more opinions. My boss has asked me to come up with a 'browser support strategy' that covers both internal projects and external projects. The reason for this is mostly: in a just released a public web site we are getting feedback like "this doesn't look right on my Kindle Fire" there is too much white space at the top (or whatever). The problem is that we could chew up the rest of our careers responding to this if we aren't careful - currently the person in charge says 'we should support all mobile devices out there' and we have spent hours on stuff that (in my opinion) we shouldn't have. We are getting some loaner devices so we can at least see for ourselves what the problem is (rather than rely on an email description of what's wrong - that's an improvement. We have to support IE7 because of the number of users on it within our organization - I'd love to ditch it but people are only moving off about 0.5% per month and it has a 30% share of current page hits. All help is appreciated. I searched and haven't find anything relevant except a graded browser support idea that I found at yuilibrary.com. My current thought is to have categories like: A = we will fix it if something looks wrong, QA will test these browsers B = it only has to look roughly the same as tier A, we will only fix it if something is missing or doesn't work, QA does NOT test these browsers C = These are considered rare browser platforms and users should not expect them to work. If money is provided to support a specific broser in the category we can do it, but it will not be supported ongoing (if it works now and breaks in a month we will not fix the break). F = These are antiquated browsers which are not supported for any reason Do any of you have a browser list that you target support for? Any recommendations? (Aside from drop IE7 - we're working on that battle) Comments on how to word my ABCF scale and what should be in it are welcome also. Thanks, -Chris C. EDIT: Example of Tier "F" would be IE6, IE5.5, etc.)
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I decided to post here instead of the web forum to get more opinions. My boss has asked me to come up with a 'browser support strategy' that covers both internal projects and external projects. The reason for this is mostly: in a just released a public web site we are getting feedback like "this doesn't look right on my Kindle Fire" there is too much white space at the top (or whatever). The problem is that we could chew up the rest of our careers responding to this if we aren't careful - currently the person in charge says 'we should support all mobile devices out there' and we have spent hours on stuff that (in my opinion) we shouldn't have. We are getting some loaner devices so we can at least see for ourselves what the problem is (rather than rely on an email description of what's wrong - that's an improvement. We have to support IE7 because of the number of users on it within our organization - I'd love to ditch it but people are only moving off about 0.5% per month and it has a 30% share of current page hits. All help is appreciated. I searched and haven't find anything relevant except a graded browser support idea that I found at yuilibrary.com. My current thought is to have categories like: A = we will fix it if something looks wrong, QA will test these browsers B = it only has to look roughly the same as tier A, we will only fix it if something is missing or doesn't work, QA does NOT test these browsers C = These are considered rare browser platforms and users should not expect them to work. If money is provided to support a specific broser in the category we can do it, but it will not be supported ongoing (if it works now and breaks in a month we will not fix the break). F = These are antiquated browsers which are not supported for any reason Do any of you have a browser list that you target support for? Any recommendations? (Aside from drop IE7 - we're working on that battle) Comments on how to word my ABCF scale and what should be in it are welcome also. Thanks, -Chris C. EDIT: Example of Tier "F" would be IE6, IE5.5, etc.)
Rewrite your website to take advantage of features that are easy to support across multiple browsers.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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I decided to post here instead of the web forum to get more opinions. My boss has asked me to come up with a 'browser support strategy' that covers both internal projects and external projects. The reason for this is mostly: in a just released a public web site we are getting feedback like "this doesn't look right on my Kindle Fire" there is too much white space at the top (or whatever). The problem is that we could chew up the rest of our careers responding to this if we aren't careful - currently the person in charge says 'we should support all mobile devices out there' and we have spent hours on stuff that (in my opinion) we shouldn't have. We are getting some loaner devices so we can at least see for ourselves what the problem is (rather than rely on an email description of what's wrong - that's an improvement. We have to support IE7 because of the number of users on it within our organization - I'd love to ditch it but people are only moving off about 0.5% per month and it has a 30% share of current page hits. All help is appreciated. I searched and haven't find anything relevant except a graded browser support idea that I found at yuilibrary.com. My current thought is to have categories like: A = we will fix it if something looks wrong, QA will test these browsers B = it only has to look roughly the same as tier A, we will only fix it if something is missing or doesn't work, QA does NOT test these browsers C = These are considered rare browser platforms and users should not expect them to work. If money is provided to support a specific broser in the category we can do it, but it will not be supported ongoing (if it works now and breaks in a month we will not fix the break). F = These are antiquated browsers which are not supported for any reason Do any of you have a browser list that you target support for? Any recommendations? (Aside from drop IE7 - we're working on that battle) Comments on how to word my ABCF scale and what should be in it are welcome also. Thanks, -Chris C. EDIT: Example of Tier "F" would be IE6, IE5.5, etc.)
Do feature detection rather than browser detection. Then gracefully downgrade the respective page if the desired feature is not detected.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
I decided to post here instead of the web forum to get more opinions. My boss has asked me to come up with a 'browser support strategy' that covers both internal projects and external projects. The reason for this is mostly: in a just released a public web site we are getting feedback like "this doesn't look right on my Kindle Fire" there is too much white space at the top (or whatever). The problem is that we could chew up the rest of our careers responding to this if we aren't careful - currently the person in charge says 'we should support all mobile devices out there' and we have spent hours on stuff that (in my opinion) we shouldn't have. We are getting some loaner devices so we can at least see for ourselves what the problem is (rather than rely on an email description of what's wrong - that's an improvement. We have to support IE7 because of the number of users on it within our organization - I'd love to ditch it but people are only moving off about 0.5% per month and it has a 30% share of current page hits. All help is appreciated. I searched and haven't find anything relevant except a graded browser support idea that I found at yuilibrary.com. My current thought is to have categories like: A = we will fix it if something looks wrong, QA will test these browsers B = it only has to look roughly the same as tier A, we will only fix it if something is missing or doesn't work, QA does NOT test these browsers C = These are considered rare browser platforms and users should not expect them to work. If money is provided to support a specific broser in the category we can do it, but it will not be supported ongoing (if it works now and breaks in a month we will not fix the break). F = These are antiquated browsers which are not supported for any reason Do any of you have a browser list that you target support for? Any recommendations? (Aside from drop IE7 - we're working on that battle) Comments on how to word my ABCF scale and what should be in it are welcome also. Thanks, -Chris C. EDIT: Example of Tier "F" would be IE6, IE5.5, etc.)
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I decided to post here instead of the web forum to get more opinions. My boss has asked me to come up with a 'browser support strategy' that covers both internal projects and external projects. The reason for this is mostly: in a just released a public web site we are getting feedback like "this doesn't look right on my Kindle Fire" there is too much white space at the top (or whatever). The problem is that we could chew up the rest of our careers responding to this if we aren't careful - currently the person in charge says 'we should support all mobile devices out there' and we have spent hours on stuff that (in my opinion) we shouldn't have. We are getting some loaner devices so we can at least see for ourselves what the problem is (rather than rely on an email description of what's wrong - that's an improvement. We have to support IE7 because of the number of users on it within our organization - I'd love to ditch it but people are only moving off about 0.5% per month and it has a 30% share of current page hits. All help is appreciated. I searched and haven't find anything relevant except a graded browser support idea that I found at yuilibrary.com. My current thought is to have categories like: A = we will fix it if something looks wrong, QA will test these browsers B = it only has to look roughly the same as tier A, we will only fix it if something is missing or doesn't work, QA does NOT test these browsers C = These are considered rare browser platforms and users should not expect them to work. If money is provided to support a specific broser in the category we can do it, but it will not be supported ongoing (if it works now and breaks in a month we will not fix the break). F = These are antiquated browsers which are not supported for any reason Do any of you have a browser list that you target support for? Any recommendations? (Aside from drop IE7 - we're working on that battle) Comments on how to word my ABCF scale and what should be in it are welcome also. Thanks, -Chris C. EDIT: Example of Tier "F" would be IE6, IE5.5, etc.)
You should also prioritize in which order you fix problems.
- Broken functionality should be highest priority and include all categories, maybe except F.
- Having all elements looking roughly right and being in the right positions should be next priority and include categories A and B.
- Pixelpushing is time demanding and only important to the marketing department and should therefore have the lowest priority and be limited to category A.
Light moves faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak. List of common misconceptions
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You should also prioritize in which order you fix problems.
- Broken functionality should be highest priority and include all categories, maybe except F.
- Having all elements looking roughly right and being in the right positions should be next priority and include categories A and B.
- Pixelpushing is time demanding and only important to the marketing department and should therefore have the lowest priority and be limited to category A.
Light moves faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak. List of common misconceptions
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
Pixelpushing
Is that some new-age fudgepacking?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
Pixelpushing
Is that some new-age fudgepacking?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert EinsteinI had to look up that. :wtf: You might have a point though.
Light moves faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak. List of common misconceptions
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Do feature detection rather than browser detection. Then gracefully downgrade the respective page if the desired feature is not detected.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert EinsteinSorry, but that doesn't work. Browser support isn't limited to Javascript - it includes the gamut of CSS quirks that drive sane men mad.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Dear God no. That means standardising on an incredibly awful implementation set. IE6 is at least a whole generation old and should be treated as a special case, not a direct target.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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I decided to post here instead of the web forum to get more opinions. My boss has asked me to come up with a 'browser support strategy' that covers both internal projects and external projects. The reason for this is mostly: in a just released a public web site we are getting feedback like "this doesn't look right on my Kindle Fire" there is too much white space at the top (or whatever). The problem is that we could chew up the rest of our careers responding to this if we aren't careful - currently the person in charge says 'we should support all mobile devices out there' and we have spent hours on stuff that (in my opinion) we shouldn't have. We are getting some loaner devices so we can at least see for ourselves what the problem is (rather than rely on an email description of what's wrong - that's an improvement. We have to support IE7 because of the number of users on it within our organization - I'd love to ditch it but people are only moving off about 0.5% per month and it has a 30% share of current page hits. All help is appreciated. I searched and haven't find anything relevant except a graded browser support idea that I found at yuilibrary.com. My current thought is to have categories like: A = we will fix it if something looks wrong, QA will test these browsers B = it only has to look roughly the same as tier A, we will only fix it if something is missing or doesn't work, QA does NOT test these browsers C = These are considered rare browser platforms and users should not expect them to work. If money is provided to support a specific broser in the category we can do it, but it will not be supported ongoing (if it works now and breaks in a month we will not fix the break). F = These are antiquated browsers which are not supported for any reason Do any of you have a browser list that you target support for? Any recommendations? (Aside from drop IE7 - we're working on that battle) Comments on how to word my ABCF scale and what should be in it are welcome also. Thanks, -Chris C. EDIT: Example of Tier "F" would be IE6, IE5.5, etc.)
Your approach is the right one and Jörgen is wise. Aim to support the most common browsers (FF - Gecko, Chrome/Safari - webkit, and IE7+ - Trident). Focus on making the site usable (but not pixel perfect) on all browsers above your cutoff line, and provide different levels of features: 1. Mainstream browsers: The site should have full functionality and look great. Do as much as you can without resorting to HTML5/CSS3. Maybe you can't use a canvas, or maybe you can't use the file upload progress capabilities or local storage, but it all works. IE7+ and all other browsers fit in here 2. New browsers: Using progressive enhancement by sniffing for feature availability, add the features you feel are the icing on the cake and/or are feature you want as mainstream in a year or two. The experience on newer browsers should be the same, but little things just work nicer and look nicer. IE9, Chrome, Firefox and Safari latest fit into this. 3. Old dying browsers: information should be accessible and readable. Maybe something doesn't work like drag and drop, maybe you have no shadows or rounded corners. Maybe your DIVS are a little out of alignment. It doesn't matter. It all still works. 4. Mobile browsers: Don't even bother with non-HTML mobile browsers. Consider all mobile browsers HTML5 enabled and focus on a fast, clean, readable experience geared towards touch. It may mean a completely different site 5. Odd, dead or beta browsers. Chrome eleventy-one, Firefox 2.0. IE5 on a Mac. Lynx. Take a moment to see if you have customers that actually use, and need to use, any of these. If they do, support it on an as-needed basis similar to #3. In all of this, ask yourself whether you expect all your users will have Javascript and images enabled, and whether you can reasonably require this to be the case in order to view the site. And then, when that's all done, fix the issues in the correct order.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Sorry, but that doesn't work. Browser support isn't limited to Javascript - it includes the gamut of CSS quirks that drive sane men mad.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
eh?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
eh?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert EinsteinYou said "Do feature detection rather than browser detection" and I was assuming you meant javascript based feature detection. This means you're only handling script issues, not layout issues, and the majority of issues with browser support for the most painful (read: older IE) browsers is layout. Of course, maybe I'm reading too much into the question and simply having 'nam flashbacks of my own adventures in browser support. I find the javascript support the easy stuff. Layout and styling? That's a killer.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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You said "Do feature detection rather than browser detection" and I was assuming you meant javascript based feature detection. This means you're only handling script issues, not layout issues, and the majority of issues with browser support for the most painful (read: older IE) browsers is layout. Of course, maybe I'm reading too much into the question and simply having 'nam flashbacks of my own adventures in browser support. I find the javascript support the easy stuff. Layout and styling? That's a killer.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
What would you want for mailing these words to my boss? :) We (the R&D staff) has managed to hold him off HTML (vs native mobile UIs), for some time now, but he keeps picking up the subject during meetings. It's getting bothersome... :)
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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You said "Do feature detection rather than browser detection" and I was assuming you meant javascript based feature detection. This means you're only handling script issues, not layout issues, and the majority of issues with browser support for the most painful (read: older IE) browsers is layout. Of course, maybe I'm reading too much into the question and simply having 'nam flashbacks of my own adventures in browser support. I find the javascript support the easy stuff. Layout and styling? That's a killer.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Well, I'm no expert so perhaps I shouldn't speak. But I was primarily talking about layout & CSS feature detection. Javascript libraries such as Modernizr[^] and it's brethren allow you to write both conditional Javascript and CSS.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
Dear God no. That means standardising on an incredibly awful implementation set. IE6 is at least a whole generation old and should be treated as a special case, not a direct target.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Well, I'm no expert so perhaps I shouldn't speak. But I was primarily talking about layout & CSS feature detection. Javascript libraries such as Modernizr[^] and it's brethren allow you to write both conditional Javascript and CSS.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert EinsteinThat's the point, though: detecting differences in browsers is easy. Making the different browsers work properly is where the work is.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP