Is Windows 8 too radical for you?
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
I was about to say I'm a middle aged white man from the US. and I think I do qualify as "dude". Then I remembered when I was 25, declared I was middle aged and when asked why, said the current life expectency is 75, so 0-25 is youth, 25-50 is middle aged, 50-75 is old age and anything beyond is bonus time. Using that criteria, I've been old for nearly a decade, but still think its OK to call me dude. Then there is the definition of dude as someone who is inexperienced and naive. (IE Dude Ranch) I didn't even think to take it that way. So, being from the UK, you're too staid and stuffy to be a dude? Or are you too old? (The Great Wobowski would disagree with that one.) That kind of reminded me of the song that goes "when you only live a hundred years..." When I first heard that, I thought "You're a singer, what makes you think you'll pass 40?" along with the documented cases of people going past 110. What does age have to do with your "dude"ness?
Staid and stuffy. Definitely. I cringe when I think of the crap and stupidity I came out with in my teens and twenties, all in a futile attempt to be hip and cool. Being a dude was one of those things, and I am old enough for it to have different connotations, going back to all the young dudes.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Yes I know WPF will run on Windows 8 - but is it considered obsolete that Metro is the new and upcoming and all new candies will be allocated to Metro and not WPF? Remember Winform > WPF > Metro evolution? When WPF came out all of sudden seems like Winform no longer cool or funky, like a piece of old technology ready to be spitted out even by Microsoft itself
dev
No I don't think you understand me. I'm not saying WPF runs on Windows 8 (which it does on non-RT systems), I'm saying if you have a significant investment in WPF then that investment isn't lost because the development environment, methodologies, and tools are the same ones you'll using to develop Windows Runtime apps. The composition of which is very much like what you'd find on Silverlight or Windows Phone. If you're leveraging MVVM at all via Caliburn Micro or MVVM Light, those tools are already or soon coming to the Windows Runtime. We have been able to rapidly move our view models from Caliburn Micro desktop apps to Metro apps and it's been an amazing experience in comparison to some the other feature shifts in the .Net world (which I think is the crux of your Winforms example). We also heavily leverage Autofac in our environment, and it has been built as a portable class library for some time now, enabling us to simple tweak (not rewrite) our code and it again has been a top notch experience. Summing up my rant: WPF isn't going anywhere with the shift to the Windows Runtime, it's just changed slightly. (and did I mention that the desktop isn't going anywhere either :)
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No I don't think you understand me. I'm not saying WPF runs on Windows 8 (which it does on non-RT systems), I'm saying if you have a significant investment in WPF then that investment isn't lost because the development environment, methodologies, and tools are the same ones you'll using to develop Windows Runtime apps. The composition of which is very much like what you'd find on Silverlight or Windows Phone. If you're leveraging MVVM at all via Caliburn Micro or MVVM Light, those tools are already or soon coming to the Windows Runtime. We have been able to rapidly move our view models from Caliburn Micro desktop apps to Metro apps and it's been an amazing experience in comparison to some the other feature shifts in the .Net world (which I think is the crux of your Winforms example). We also heavily leverage Autofac in our environment, and it has been built as a portable class library for some time now, enabling us to simple tweak (not rewrite) our code and it again has been a top notch experience. Summing up my rant: WPF isn't going anywhere with the shift to the Windows Runtime, it's just changed slightly. (and did I mention that the desktop isn't going anywhere either :)
... I'm not interested in moving our view models from one environment to another, I'm not least bit interested in "Paradigm Shift" - I just want publish apps and income stream coming in. Unless there's a real increment to capability (i.e. monetary incentive) offered by the new environment/framework, it's a complete waste of effort to migrate to the new platform. Our experience moving from Winform to WPF was exactly this - that the then newer WPF platform was nothing more than a "Paradigm shift", there's no real addition to what Desktop Apps can do. (Imagine yourself having to justify Winform to WPF migration?) Same can be said for Socket>WebService>WCF migration. Everything from serialization/compression/encryption/load distribution can be so easily done by code/libraries previously written, why bother with hassle of having to memorize WCF configurations? So much hype and so little "Capability". Now, having read this[^], it appears that "Desktop Apps" (WPF/Winform) will continue run on Windows 8. However, "Metro Style Apps" (touched based/enabled apps) will be built on top of the brand new WinRT API. If I'm not mistaken, the only real addition this time around is that Metro Style apps will be "Touched Enabled", and "Tablet like". I guess, we need to revisit the fundamental questions every so often - What can computer do [differently]? - What can you application do [differently]? Way I see it, Windows 8 and WinRT - sounds like small/incremental improvement but a lot of code changes/work be done to port code from .NET to WinRT. "Radical" is a gross over-statement.
dev
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Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
you assumed that I always think that Wikipedia is always correct
No I didn't. I just pointed out that quoting Wikipedia isn't always a guarantee of reliability.
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
Dude
Please don't. I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
Eusebiu Marcu wrote:
So, when you say "Windows 8...", you have to complete the rest of the sentence when it comes to development.
Again, no I don't. Read what I put again. I merely stated that you can run WPF and .NET apps on Windows 8 so the skills aren't dead. There's a reason I mentioned the ARM processor - and that's because that's the one environment where you can't run them.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Please don't. I'm a middle aged white man from the UK. In no way do I qualify as "dude".
Quite right; the correct form of address is clearly "Brosicle". ;P
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Staid and stuffy. Definitely. I cringe when I think of the crap and stupidity I came out with in my teens and twenties, all in a futile attempt to be hip and cool. Being a dude was one of those things, and I am old enough for it to have different connotations, going back to all the young dudes.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Staid and stuffy. Definitely.
Said by someone who would also say
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle
:laugh:
Actually, that was said by Sean.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Actually, that was said by Sean.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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The operating system's Metro interface is almost sure to cause a surge in calls to the enterprise help desk as users contend with tiles where the familiar 'Start' button and 'Explorer' icon used to be. ---------------- With a host of new tools and capabilities--such as Secure Boot, Windows To Go and greatly improved file management--Windows 8 may have broad appeal in a variety of businesses.
I like Windows 8 just fine. Give it some time and you might like it too.
I may need more information, but after reading a dozen or more articles I'm still missing even a single argument for switching to W8. I only use Windows on high-end desktop PCs. Metro is pointless or even outright bad for my purposes, so I won't be using it. I am not aware of reasons in favor of W8 outside the UI that would even apply to my main use of a PC. Metro may be good to use on devices that are designed for gesture-based input, but currently I consider it detrimental for using it on workstations. I could of course run W8 in desktop mode, but I wouldn't know why. Maybe the articles I read focus too much on Metro; I am lacking information about the improvements made to the core OS, and have a hard time finding any. Are there no relevant changes in this area?
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jschell wrote:
Some prisoners find that after many years that they prefer prison to the rest of the world. However myself I don't see that as being an effective argument for being in prison.
I see your point and I agree with it. :thumbsup: And if someone would get me out of prison (aka: buy me a Mac), I would be willing to try life outside of prison. ;)
I've considered buying a Mac, until I realized it's in the high-security tract. ;P I may yet switch to Linux, but as jschell said, life out of prison may not appear preferable: suddenly you need to take care of all kind of things you were taking for granted...
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I may need more information, but after reading a dozen or more articles I'm still missing even a single argument for switching to W8. I only use Windows on high-end desktop PCs. Metro is pointless or even outright bad for my purposes, so I won't be using it. I am not aware of reasons in favor of W8 outside the UI that would even apply to my main use of a PC. Metro may be good to use on devices that are designed for gesture-based input, but currently I consider it detrimental for using it on workstations. I could of course run W8 in desktop mode, but I wouldn't know why. Maybe the articles I read focus too much on Metro; I am lacking information about the improvements made to the core OS, and have a hard time finding any. Are there no relevant changes in this area?
Stefan_Lang wrote:
Maybe the articles I read focus too much on Metro; I am lacking information about the improvements made to the core OS, and have a hard time finding any. Are there no relevant changes in this area?
I haven't seen anything good happen in the core OS either. I guess I'm an oddball in the fact that I've begun to appreciate Metro. :rolleyes:
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I've considered buying a Mac, until I realized it's in the high-security tract. ;P I may yet switch to Linux, but as jschell said, life out of prison may not appear preferable: suddenly you need to take care of all kind of things you were taking for granted...
Stefan_Lang wrote:
suddenly you need to take care of all kind of things you were taking for granted...
I'm with you there. I tried Ubuntu for a bit but I got really frustrated because I couldn't understand how to do anything beyond what a "regular" user could do. :mad: In short, I couldn't be the "expert" I wanted to be. :^)
